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Old 01-23-2014   #41
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It would be kinda like being forced to start Aaron Rodgers instead of Alex Smith. Just because he was selected later in the draft doesn't mean he is a worse prospect, only that the "experts" believe he is.

Or if Matt Flynn fails, the Seahawks were forced to start Russell Wilson, who turned out (so far) as good as, if not better, than RG3 & Andrew Luck both chosen two full rounds ahead of him.

Understand, Ryan Mallett has first round talent. They were worried bout his off field issues. I don't know if we can hold it against him that he didn't beat out Tom Brady for the starting job.
The pro TB people cant think about any other scenario. They're sure TB is going to be great. (The chosen one)

The Bortles people see a prototypical type QB that has a past with O'Leary, one of BO'B's mentors.

JM people see Russell Wilson. Gig'em

Clowney people see him as a generational talent who's to good to pass up. Especially with QB's that have the talent to rival the top 3 QB's.

Then there are people like me who don't like any of the QB's in this draft and would rather wait until 2015 to draft a QB. Or trade for Mallett, a very talented guy who has yrs in BO'B's system and draft Clowney

One thing's for sure, nothing is going to change people's minds.
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Old 01-23-2014   #42
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
I could see the Texans spending as high as a 5th on him, but he'd either be a project or have to convert to Tight End. Dude is big and fast, it's just a matter of him improving or making a good transition.
I think he could be a monster TE if he really wanted to be one. Like that scout said... can't teach 6'6 250.
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Old 01-23-2014   #43
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

Doesn't the team drafting first overall get several late-round compensatory picks, including the very last one in the seventh? Maybe he could be our 'Mr. Irrelevant."
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Old 01-23-2014   #44
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The pro TB people cant think about any other scenario. They're sure TB is going to be great. (The chosen one)

The Bortles people see a prototypical type QB that has a past with O'Leary, one of BO'B's mentors.

JM people see Russell Wilson. Gig'em

Clowney people see him as a generational talent who's to good to pass up. Especially with QB's that have the talent to rival the top 3 QB's.

Then there are people like me who don't like any of the QB's in this draft and would rather wait until 2015 to draft a QB. Or trade for Mallett, a very talented guy who has yrs in BO'B's system and draft Clowney

One thing's for sure, nothing is going to change people's minds.
This post makes a lot of sense, because that's essentially the different types of people we have on this board (also including the last few Carr/Mettenberger/McCarron/Murray supporters that are left). However, I feel leery of saying no one will change their minds because there are a few months with quite a few factors left to determine how folks feel about their guy. Stuff could happen at the combine or at pro days that change everyone's minds. Manziel could look awful at the Combine, maybe Carr stands out, who knows?
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Old 01-23-2014   #45
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
Doesn't the team drafting first overall get several late-round compensatory picks, including the very last one in the seventh? Maybe he could be our 'Mr. Irrelevant."
I hope he lasts that long, but someone's going to tackle this project before the seventh round, I think.
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Old 01-23-2014   #46
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Then there are people like me who don't like any of the QB's in this draft and would rather wait until 2015 to draft a QB. Or trade for Mallett, a very talented guy who has yrs in BO'B's system and draft Clowney
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?
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Old 01-23-2014   #47
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?
How much do you think it would take to sign Jj Watt?
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Old 01-23-2014   #48
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?
why do we have to pay watt at the end of the 2014 season?
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Old 01-23-2014   #49
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?
Depends on what BO'B thinks of Mallett. I might extend him after the trade at a cheaper price. I might let Mallett play things out and see how he does then if he plays well extend him. If he doesn't play well then the Texans should be in a position to get one of the top QB's in the 2015 draft. Which is what I really want anyway.

I thought I have made my position clear when it comes to the 2014 QB draft class?
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Old 01-23-2014   #50
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

I'm all about Logan Thomas as a late round flyer. You can't pass up on talent like that if you get it at the right price. See the 49ers and Seahawks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
How much do you think it would take to sign Jj Watt?
6 years and between $80-90 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB View Post
why do we have to pay watt at the end of the 2014 season?
I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Depends on what BO'B thinks of Mallett. I might extend him after the trade at a cheaper price. I might let Mallett play things out and see how he does then if he plays well extend him. If he doesn't play well then the Texans should be in a position to get one of the top QB's in the 2015 draft. Which is what I really want anyway.

I thought I have made my position clear when it comes to the 2014 QB draft class?
Extend him before he plays a single snap for us at starting QB money? Gotta say I REALLY hate that idea.

Potentially extend him after 1 season of possible hope and promise. Who was the last 3rd round we pick we did that on and how did that work out? Did that happen 20 years ago in a completely different NFL or did that JUST happen?

Everyone said that about this years QB crop last year too. Probably gonna need to find Andre's replacement now too.

I said #1 pick in 2015 draft FYI. I'm implying we would fail as a team with that strategy.
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Old 01-23-2014   #51
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
I'm all about Logan Thomas as a late round flyer. You can't pass up on talent like that if you get it at the right price. See the 49ers and Seahawks.



6 years and between $80-90 million.



I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.



Extend him before he plays a single snap for us at starting QB money? Gotta say I REALLY hate that idea.

Potentially extend him after 1 season of possible hope and promise. Who was the last 3rd round we pick we did that on and how did that work out? Did that happen 20 years ago in a completely different NFL or did that JUST happen?

Everyone said that about this years QB crop last year too. Probably gonna need to find Andre's replacement now too.

I said #1 pick in 2015 draft FYI. I'm implying we would fail as a team with that strategy.
They aren't going to let Watt walk.

I'm not for extending Mallett before he plays. But yes, you could sign Mallett and Watt to a new contract before the 2015 season if Mallett plays well. If he doesn't you can draft a QB in the better QB 2015 draft. It's a win-win if you ask me.

Alex Smith would be the latest example of a QB traded for that has worked out pretty well. Admit it, you want TB and your mind is made up.

Give me Mallett and Clowney and if this doesn't work out then you've hedged your bets because you should have a high enough draft pick to draft Winston/Mariota/Hundley etc... next yr. All of who have as much or more potential as any QB in this yrs draft.

BTW, I get the gotta have it now generation.
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Old 01-23-2014   #52
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
They aren't going to let Watt walk.

I'm not for extending Mallett before he plays. But yes, you could sign Mallett and Watt to a new contract before the 2015 season if Mallett plays well. If he doesn't you can draft a QB in the better QB 2015 draft. It's a win-win if you ask me.

Alex Smith would be the latest example of a QB traded for that has worked out pretty well. Admit it, you want TB and your mind is made up.

Give me Mallett and Clowney and if this doesn't work out then you've hedged your bets because you should have a high enough draft pick to draft Winston/Mariota/Hundley etc... next yr. All of who have as much or more potential as any QB in this yrs draft.

BTW, I get the gotta have it now generation.
I hear you. It's all good. My questions were rhetorical. The truth is you can't sign JJ Watt and a new QB without cutting half of this team.

Alex Smith is absolutely nothing like Ryan Mallett. A guy that has 6 years experience as a starting QB coming off of an NFC Championship game, where he was a field goal away in overtime from going to the big dance. Alex Smith was drafted 1.01 and Ryan Mallet is a 3rd round pick that has throw 4 NFL passes (3 incomplete).

If we get Winston or Mariota I can live. I HATE Hundley. I do want it now. Maybe cause this city sucks. Astros are good for a couple years then get swept in the World Series and then basically become THE dumpster fire of MLB the last 3 years.

I can't even watch the Rockets unless I go to the game or watch on my computer all choppy.

I only really have the Texans and I get all this false hope, they do everything I don't want every year and I hate the result every year. For once I just want my draft and I want it now, you're right.

I change my mind often though. Maybe I will come around. I would prefer not to have to though and everything just work out. We will see. I respect your opinion. I also apologize for trashing this thread about Logan Thomas.

I LIKE Logan Thomas as a gamble late.
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Old 01-24-2014   #53
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post

6 years and between $80-90 million.
Mario got $96M. Just to make it easy, let's use Mario's contract for guidance.
Quote:
The numbers are in for defensive end Mario Williams. And they’re impressive.

A source with knowledge of the contract tells PFT that the deal has a base value of $96 million over six years, including $25 million fully guaranteed on signing. Another $25 million is guaranteed for injury on signing, and the money will become fully guaranteed at a later date.

The deal can be worth as much as $100 million.

Williams, who made nearly $60 million in six seasons with the Texans, will earn $53 million in his first three seasons with the Bills.
So we give Jj a $25M signing bonus, then first three years salaries of $2.5M, $3.5M, & $3.5M (his cap number will be $6.7M, $7.7M, & $7.7M). Give him another $25M signing bonus in 2016, incresing his cap by another $5M for 2016 & 2017 so his first three years would be $6.7 in 2015, $12.7M in 2016, & $12.7M in 2017.

If Schaub is a June 1st cut in 2014, the Texans would be $26M under the cap in 2015, Jj's new contract ($6.7M) would still allow us $19M to sign other FAs..... maybe Mallet.

If OB likes Mallet enough, I'd sign him to a 5 year deal. $10M bonus, $2M salary throughout, & an additional $1M roster bonus for years 2 through 5. That would be $7M against the 2014 cap & $6M for years 2 through 5.

He gets $10M up front ($5M signing, $5M roster bonus) (Luck got $14M, Bridgewater will probably get $14M+) & a contract worth $24M (Luck got $22M, Bridgewater will probably get $22M+). He'll count $7M against the 2014 cap (money gained from making Schaub a June 1st cut). We can cut him after the season (if he doesn't live up to expectations) & only have $4M of dead money ($1M less each consecutive year).



Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.
He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.

Also, we have a team option for a 5th year at $8.25M then after that third year, if he doesn't look like the former defensive player of the year, damn right I'll franchise him if I have to.
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Old 01-24-2014   #54
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

You'd think the draft would be enough to discuss, but apparently there is room for imaginary future salary cap issues as well.
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Old 01-24-2014   #55
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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You'd think the draft would be enough to discuss, but apparently there is room for imaginary future salary cap issues as well.
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Old 01-24-2014   #56
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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I'm not for extending Mallett before he plays. But yes, you could sign Mallett and Watt to a new contract before the 2015 season if Mallett plays well. If he doesn't you can draft a QB in the better QB 2015 draft. It's a win-win if you ask me.
If you don't sign Mallet to a multi year deal before the 2014 season, he'll want to test FA if he plays well. You'll be competing with what everyone else "could" offer him & with guys like Cutler, Romo, & Ryan recently signing a one year deal, if Mallet plays as well as we hope, some idjit franchise will probably offer him that kind of money.

In my deal, he gets a contract similar to a QB taken with the #1 overall & we're not married to him if he doesn't play well.
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Old 01-24-2014   #57
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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I hear you. It's all good. My questions were rhetorical. The truth is you can't sign JJ Watt and a new QB without cutting half of this team.

If we get Winston or Mariota I can live. I HATE Hundley. I do want it now. Maybe cause this city sucks. Astros are good for a couple years then get swept in the World Series and then basically become THE dumpster fire of MLB the last 3 years.
If you can't sign Ryan Mallet to a long term deal & Jj Watt, you won't be able to sign Mariota or Winston if you're even in a position to get them.
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Old 01-24-2014   #58
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.
According to Pro Football Focus, Watt actually graded out higher this year than last year. I think he graded out at 100 last year and 103 this year. The 2nd best 3-4 DE this year graded out at around 60. The numbers weren't there because he faced twice as many double teams, but he actually had more sack/pressures this year than last year.

(Don't have a link for the above. It was in one of the PFF threads on the board about a month ago).

Point is, don't always believe the stats. The numbers weren't there this year, but according to many outlets, Watt was even more dominant this year than last year.
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Old 01-24-2014   #59
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.
Watt is the most valuable non-QB player in the NFL, hands down. More valuable than Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, or Jamaal Charles. He deserves whatever money is coming to him and I hope we free up the space to pay it ourselves.
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Old 01-24-2014   #60
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Default Re: Logan Thomas: QB: Virginia Tech

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Mario got $96M. Just to make it easy, let's use Mario's contract for guidance.So we give Jj a $25M signing bonus, then first three years salaries of $2.5M, $3.5M, & $3.5M (his cap number will be $6.7M, $7.7M, & $7.7M). Give him another $25M signing bonus in 2016, incresing his cap by another $5M for 2016 & 2017 so his first three years would be $6.7 in 2015, $12.7M in 2016, & $12.7M in 2017.

If Schaub is a June 1st cut in 2014, the Texans would be $26M under the cap in 2015, Jj's new contract ($6.7M) would still allow us $19M to sign other FAs..... maybe Mallet.

If OB likes Mallet enough, I'd sign him to a 5 year deal. $10M bonus, $2M salary throughout, & an additional $1M roster bonus for years 2 through 5. That would be $7M against the 2014 cap & $6M for years 2 through 5.

He gets $10M up front ($5M signing, $5M roster bonus) (Luck got $14M, Bridgewater will probably get $14M+) & a contract worth $24M (Luck got $22M, Bridgewater will probably get $22M+). He'll count $7M against the 2014 cap (money gained from making Schaub a June 1st cut). We can cut him after the season (if he doesn't live up to expectations) & only have $4M of dead money ($1M less each consecutive year).





He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.

Also, we have a team option for a 5th year at $8.25M then after that third year, if he doesn't look like the former defensive player of the year, damn right I'll franchise him if I have to.
I think you might want to reevaluate that statement. He was perhaps even better in 2013, even though the stats were down. His TFL skyrocketed as his PD and Sacks went down.

But then again, I'm not an NFL scout or coach so what do I know?
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