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View Poll Results: Who is your SuperBowl winner?
Broncos 55 57.29%
Seahawks 41 42.71%
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Old 02-03-2014   #241
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Dude, you were so right!



D'oh, except you were soooo wrong.



lol @ "Legion of Bust". You lose credibility with such lame jabs, especially seeing this unit completely dismantle Peyton Manning's record setting offense.



If "the greatest" cannot overcome a 2 point deficit with 59:40 left on the game clock....



....then I don't see how you can say this with a straight face.

Six times has the #1 defense faced the #1 offense in the Super Bowl.

Defenses are 5-1 in those games.

Peyton Manning and his Broncos were DOMINATED. I don't see how a mere week is going to change the fundamental nature of each team.

Manning has been throwing short passes all season and his receivers have made plays after the catch all season. The Seahawks do not allow offenses to do this because they are so fast and they attack the ball so well that you cannot dink and dunk without a deep threat and expect to win. The Seahawks took away Manning's strengths and exploited his offense's weaknesses.

Fantastic performance by the Seahawks in all phases of the game. They will be back.



What do you know, man, you're just a football fan, amirite?



It is a subjective argument, but this game put this one to rest. Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman all have multiple rings and have never lost Super Bowls. Manning clearly has the statistical edge - in a era that heavily favors the passing game, btw - but true legacy of greatness to be G.O.A.T. is built with the accumulation of championships.
I hear ya DB, but noone considers Bradshaw (& rightfully so) as 1 of the greatest of the great...despite him having been undefeated in the SB, having a 100+ qb rating in every SB he played in...despite him playing & most of the time beating some of the greatest defenses ever assembled in those cowboys and raiders teams of the 70's.


And as i said, there's too much that goes into winning SB's...Every 1 of those qb's you named above had a top rated defense & an all time great HC behind them...
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Old 02-03-2014   #242
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Texans who just earned Super Bowl Rings...

Russell Okung Richmond, Tx
Earl Thomas Orange, Tx
Red Bryant Jasper, Tx
Jeremy Lane Tyler, Tx
Michael Bennett Houston, Tx
Mike Morgan Dallas, Tx

May be as close as we'll get for a while guys.
I had to add Russell Okung
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Old 02-03-2014   #243
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Excellent coach, but I personally don't like what he did at USC (and I never liked USC). He allowed rampant cheating and rules violations under his watch, and then when the hammer was about to come down (on kids who had nothing to do with the violations and on new coaches who had no role in it) -- he took his ball, went to the NFL and left other, more innocent parties to burn in the flames of the fire he helped to stoke while he avoided all the consequences.
Man, that is not what happened there at all. I would think that if you were going to hate somebody for something you would at least make sure you had your facts straight.

USC got hammered so hard because their football, basketball, and women's tennis programs were all under investigation at the same time.

The tennis team was hit because they were using former players to help recruit. The basketball team was hit because O.J. Mayo had been accepting gifts from an agent since before he graduated high school. The football team was hit because of the Reggie Bush scandal.

There was no "rampant cheating" going on. There was only one violation. Only one coach, Todd McNair (Bush's position coach), was implicated in the scandal. Bush was accepting cash and gifts from two agents, Lloyd Lake and Michael Michaels, in exchange for his promise that he would sign with them when he went pro. McNair knew what was going on but instead of reporting it to his superior, Carroll, he tried to help Bush cover his tracks. When Bush went pro he signed with a different agency, and Lloyd Lake sued him. That is how everything became public.

Carroll never "took his ball, went to the NFL and left other, more innocent parties to burn in the flames of the fire he helped to stoke while he avoided all the consequences."

He was offered a NFL head coaching job, which is kind of a prestigious offer. Should he have turned down another shot at the NFL so that he could try to help USC recover from a mess that he had nothing to do with? That's obviously up for debate. I honestly don't think he owed USC anything.
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Old 02-03-2014   #244
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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His legacy will take a hit with those who already really don't like him..that's fine..Me personally though, I've long discounted the "must win multiple SB's/championships to be considered the greatest" argument simply b/c people are too biased and usually don't take everything into consideration. Brady is considered better than Manning largely b/c he has more SB rings but then those same folks discount a guy like Bradshaw b/c he had 1 of the greatest defenses backing him....but then will elevate a guy like Dan Marino over say John Elway b/c of some other made up personal nonsense. There's just too much that goes into winning SB's let alone multiple ones.

Based on what the guy has done his whole career regardless of the circumstances, he's the greatest to ever do it in my eyes. No 1 qb has ever brought more to the game....imo of course.
His legacy taking a hit has nothing to do with people liking him or disliking him. You don't have to like a guy to respect him, there is plenty of people that I don't like that I respect.. and I simply don't respect his postseason results, which don't remotely come close to what he's been able to do in the regular season when the level of postseason pressure is not applied. Brady (who I don't like) has lost multiple super bowls, but this type of loss would've never tonight happened with him at the helm.

And this has nothing to do with winning multiple superbowls. He didn't even have to win this game to come out on top, he just didn't need to go out in flames. Brady is better, because his team wouldn't of crapped the bed the way Payton's team did.. That would've never happened. Peyton was sitting on the bench and already had his quitter face on at the end of the first quarter, a face he kept throughout the game.

Yes Bradshaw won 4 SBs, but there's a reason why people elevate guys like Marino and John Elway over him... they were better QBs. When people think of those Steeler teams they don't think of Bradshaw, they think of his RB, his WRs, and that defense. You can't say that about the other two QBs you mentioned.

The year Peyton Manning won his championship.. his defense went from being one of the worst run defenses in NFL history (gave up 375 yards against the jags, as well as allowed Ron Dayne to have a field day and completely run over them) to becoming the best postseason defense when they did reach the postseason. It was the running game and defense that carried Peyton to his title. (Basically he was Bradshaw when won the SB)

As fair (or not fair) as it may be, QBs are judged by postseason results (there's a reason why I predicted Peyton to throw two INTs and he did) Peyton just doesn't add up, not in the postseason and that's why I can't consider him "the greatest ever"

Is he one of the best to ever play the position?.. yeah he is.

Is he the greatest ever?.. no he's not.

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 02-03-2014 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 02-03-2014   #245
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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I really do not get why that Seahawks team is so unanimously hated.
It's Pete Carrol for me. He knew what was going on with his program and bolted right before the NCAA handed down the death sentence to USC. Everybody hates cheaters, especially cheaters who win by doing so.
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Old 02-03-2014   #246
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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It's Pete Carrol for me. He knew what was going on with his program and bolted right before the NCAA handed down the death sentence to USC. Everybody hates cheaters, especially cheaters who win by doing so.
Read my post just two above yours. He did not know until Reggie Bush was sued by the agent he screwed over. USC was so sure they were clean that they actually requested the NCAA investigation to prove their innocence to the public. What nobody knew was that Bush's position coach knew about what was going on and never spoke up. That's why they got hammered.

And nobody "bolts" to a NFL HC job. It's a step up in the food chain. He's supposed to turn down the opportunity?
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Old 02-03-2014   #247
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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I didn't waste my time actually watching the game, but I'm please with the outcome. TEAM wins over QB! And not even close makes it even better.
Damn dude, go buy yourself a cookie!

Order 39 more for the other geniuses that won the 50/50 odds.
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Old 02-03-2014   #248
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I hear ya DB, but noone considers Bradshaw (& rightfully so) as 1 of the greatest of the great...despite him having been undefeated in the SB, having a 100+ qb rating in every SB he played in...despite him playing & most of the time beating some of the greatest defenses ever assembled in those cowboys and raiders teams of the 70's.


And as i said, there's too much that goes into winning SB's...Every 1 of those qb's you named above had a top rated defense & an all time great HC behind them...
I hear ya', man, which is why I mentioned that it's all subjective.

It really comes down to how you want to frame the debate.

I've got a buddy who thinks Warren Moon is the greatest and has many valid reasons to support his opinion. He will argue until we are exhausted and never budge. I respect his opinion, but do not agree with it at all.

Statistics are often the barometer for many folks, and it's understandable. However, statistics often represent the era, and as we clearly see in the past decade, the NFL has obliged offensives with very liberal rules.

My own metric for this subject comes down to clutch factor, which is why playoff performances/wins, as well as championships, are factored in. It's not the be all/end all for my perspective, but it definitely plays a part of a big factor.

It's a fun debate and one that will never have a clear cut winner (at least until some QB comes along and breaks Manning's record while going 5-0 in the Super Bowl, of course).

Interesting thing about Terry Bradshaw is that he led the league in passing yards one season and had a top ranked offense. But, of course, all the glory of those four Super Bowls goes to the Steel Curtain, and rightfully so. But, Bradshaw was no slouch in those later championships.

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Read my post just two above yours. He did not know until Reggie Bush was sued by the agent he screwed over. USC was so sure they were clean that they actually requested the NCAA investigation to prove their innocence to the public. What nobody knew was that Bush's position coach knew about what was going on and never spoke up. That's why they got hammered.

And nobody "bolts" to a NFL HC job. It's a step up in the food chain. He's supposed to turn down the opportunity?
Thanks for saving me the typing. My dad is one that has harbored a grudge against Pete Carroll for many years because of the USC scandal with NCAA violations. However, just today, he brings me an article revealing that Carroll had nothing to do with any of it and it all happened behind his back. I cannot find guilt when he was oblivious to the situation.
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Old 02-03-2014   #249
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Read my post just two above yours. He did not know until Reggie Bush was sued by the agent he screwed over. USC was so sure they were clean that they actually requested the NCAA investigation to prove their innocence to the public. What nobody knew was that Bush's position coach knew about what was going on and never spoke up. That's why they got hammered.

And nobody "bolts" to a NFL HC job. It's a step up in the food chain. He's supposed to turn down the opportunity?
You don't really believe that, do you?

Pete Carrol has had plenty of NFL offers, including Miami's borderline stalking recruiting efforts. He just mysteriously accepts the lightly regarded Seahawks offer, right before his program is forced to vacate numerous wins, loses scholarships and is banned from future bowl games.

Right, sounds likely. He got while the gettin was good and left all of the kids he recruited to pay the price.

Fug that dude.
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Old 02-03-2014   #250
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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What offer is that?
Sorry I used the wrong quote. I was referring to Mattress Mack's furniture bet.
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Old 02-03-2014   #251
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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His legacy taking a hit has nothing to do with people liking him or disliking him. You don't have to like a guy to respect him, there is plenty of people that I don't like that I respect.. and I simply don't respect his postseason results, which don't remotely come close to what he's been able to do in the regular season when the level of postseason pressure is not applied. Brady (who I don't like) has lost multiple super bowls, but this type of loss would've never tonight happened with him at the helm.

And this has nothing to do with winning multiple superbowls. He didn't even have to win this game to come out on top, he just didn't need to go out in flames. Brady is better, because his team wouldn't of crapped the bed the way Payton's team did.. That would've never happened. Peyton was sitting on the bench and already had his quitter face on at the end of the first quarter, a face he kept throughout the game.

Yes Bradshaw won 4 SBs, but there's a reason why people elevate guys like Marino and John Elway over him... they were better QBs. When people think of those Steeler teams they don't think of Bradshaw, they think of his RB, his WRs, and that defense. You can't say that about the other two QBs you mentioned.

The year Peyton Manning won his championship.. his defense went from being one of the worst run defenses in NFL history (gave up 375 yards against the jags, as well as allowed Ron Dayne to have a field day and completely run over them) to becoming the best postseason defense when they did reach the postseason. It was the running game and defense that carried Peyton to his title. (Basically he was Bradshaw when won the SB)

As fair (or not fair) as it may be, QBs are judged by postseason results (there's a reason why I predicted Peyton to throw two INTs and he did) Peyton just doesn't add up, not in the postseason and that's why I can't consider him "the greatest ever"

Is he one of the best to ever play the position?.. yeah he is.

Is he the greatest ever?.. no he's not.
Your kidding yourself if you believe the whole legacy talk for the last 2 weeks leading up to the SB wasn't b/c he hadn't won another SB or b/c those folks who really dont like him to begin with were/are still clinging to 1 last thing to justify not ranking him as the greatest ever. and your post is exactly what i was refering to......."when people think...." shouldnt have anything to do with it.
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Old 02-03-2014   #252
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Damn dude, go buy yourself a cookie!

Order 39 more for the other geniuses that won the 50/50 odds.
I'm here for my cookie.
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Old 02-03-2014   #253
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

I really wanted the Texans to go after Carroll after the 2005 season.

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I can think of million$ of reason$. McNair could make Carroll very $atisfied.

Besides, great coaches love challenges. Can you think of a bigger challenge in football right now than the Texans?

Carroll was 27-21 with 2 playoff appearances at New England. That looks pretty good to me about now. If you're going to judge Carroll solely on what he did in the NFL, you'd never have given Belichick the job in New England. He was 36-44 in his first HC gig in Cleveland.
What a great program he has built in Seattle. They should be among the best for quite awhile.
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Old 02-03-2014   #254
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MetLife Stadium today...



Would have ruined Peyton's chances of winning.
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Old 02-03-2014   #255
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Your kidding yourself if you believe the whole legacy talk for the last 2 weeks leading up to the SB wasn't b/c he hadn't won another SB or b/c those folks who really don't like him to begin with were/are still clinging to 1 last thing to justify not ranking him as the greatest ever. and your post is exactly what i was referring to......."when people think...." shouldn't have anything to do with it.
I didn't watch any of the coverage leading up to the game (I make it a point not to, because it becomes redundant and overkill), so I can't comment on that. If it was up to me, they should play the game the next week (on a Saturday) and be done with it just for that reason. So my post doesn't have anything to do with what any talking head said.

My post on Peyton's legacy has nothing to do with anybody hating on him or if he was able to win more SBs or not. It strictly has to do with his performance in the post season, which again has nothing to do with a amount of SB rings.. just his performance in the post season. and just judging him on his performances in the tournament, I can't proclaim the guy "the greatest ever". If you can, that's fine, but we'll just agree to disagree.
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Old 02-03-2014   #256
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

If anybody was wondering how a city like Seattle riots.... we turn to twitter.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...ng-politeness/
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Old 02-03-2014   #257
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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You don't really believe that, do you?

Pete Carrol has had plenty of NFL offers, including Miami's borderline stalking recruiting efforts. He just mysteriously accepts the lightly regarded Seahawks offer, right before his program is forced to vacate numerous wins, loses scholarships and is banned from future bowl games.

Right, sounds likely. He got while the gettin was good and left all of the kids he recruited to pay the price.

Fug that dude.
Yes I believe that. How often does the NCAA hand down sanctions against a program and the head coach gets off with no penalty? Bush's position coach was hit with a show-cause and Carroll was found to have not been involved. The USC program got absolutely hammered but the NCAA just lets Carroll walk out of the kindness of their hearts? Yea right.

Perhaps Carroll was waiting for the right NFL offer? And LOL at "the lightly regarded Seahawks offer." The same Seahawks who were just three years removed from a 4 year streak as division champs and only five years removed from a Super Bowl appearance?

Sounds like you either hate him for something that you are wrong about because you haven't properly researched the subject or you don't know why you hate him and just use the USC scandal as an excuse to justify it..
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Old 02-03-2014   #258
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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Old 02-03-2014   #259
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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lol @ "Legion of Bust". You lose credibility with such lame jabs, especially seeing this unit completely dismantle Peyton Manning's record setting offense.

If "the greatest" cannot overcome a 2 point deficit with 59:40 left on the game clock....
Well, technically he was 5 pts behind with a mere 55:21 left on the clock before he saw the ball again, but still...

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Six times has the #1 defense faced the #1 offense in the Super Bowl.

Defenses are 5-1 in those games
.

Peyton Manning and his Broncos were DOMINATED. I don't see how a mere week is going to change the fundamental nature of each team.

Manning has been throwing short passes all season and his receivers have made plays after the catch all season. The Seahawks do not allow offenses to do this because they are so fast and they attack the ball so well that you cannot dink and dunk without a deep threat and expect to win. The Seahawks took away Manning's strengths and exploited his offense's weaknesses.
Fantastic performance by the Seahawks in all phases of the game. They will be back.
Words cannot express how happy I was to see a team just line up and play ball and ignore all that flapping and pointing and other crap Manning does to "outsmart" the defense.
Yaaay for the team that played old skool football!!

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It is a subjective argument, but this game put this one to rest. Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman all have multiple rings and have never lost Super Bowls. Manning clearly has the statistical edge - in a era that heavily favors the passing game, btw - but true legacy of greatness to be G.O.A.T. is built with the accumulation of championships.
I heard an interview with ESPN's Linda Cohn on 610 radio (I think it was 610) during the week before the Game. She said she didn't even have Peyton in her top 6 or 7. She explains why here. Bottom line, she has more respect for QBs that make plays and "do more with less".

When I thought about it, Peyton has had pro-bowl quality weapons at his disposal his entire career going all the way back to Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison during his rookie year up to Wes Welker, Julius Thomas, Demaryius Thomas, and Knowshon Moreno this year. Sixteen years and always surrounded by first-rate talent at the " skilled positions".
If Peyton's the GoaT, and have always had the weapons, and has always run the same offense, then why just the one ring?
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Old 02-03-2014   #260
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Default Re: SuperBowl ... Who you got?

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I was at a friend's house watching with about 20 other people. I was the only person pulling for Seattle. I get the Manning man crush, having been on the wrong side of it for so many years. But, I really do not get why that Seahawks team is so unanimously hated. Those guys play their asses off and they are well coached.

Much like this thread (not entirely but the majority), a Broncos rout was predicted before the game by my rowdy friends. I still can't decide if they wanted Denver to win or if they just wanted Seattle to lose.

Fortunately for me, they disappeared into their drinks as I got to watch football as it was meant to be played (IMO). Suffocating defense, well coached special teams, and a patient offense that exploited mistakes. The better team clearly won, which left a lot of people unhappy for some reason.

I know some people only wanted to see a competitive game, but I saw exactly what I was hoping I would see. So I guess I'm in the minority that had a good time.
Pretty much the way I see it.

I took Seattle in the Pick 'em league 35-31. I didn't see the beat down coming but I'm not in the least surprised. Like you said, Seattle smothered them.
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