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Old 02-05-2014   #141
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Sounds like Cassel's bailing...
I guess he either doesn't like Norv or felt he wasn't going to be retained and wanted the extra month to talk to other teams....?
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Old 02-05-2014   #142
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Sounds like Cassel's bailing. O'Brien was the OC when Cassel filled in for Brady when he went down. He was also Crennel's QB in KC.

I don't think he's the answer, but could be a decent stop gap until the rook is ready. Clowney at 1, QB in the 2nd
I thought Josh McDaniels was the OC/QB coach, play caller for Matt Cassel's 2008 season.

O'Brien was the WR coach in 2008. At least according to Wiki
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After two seasons with Duke, O'Brien was hired by the New England Patriots on February 27, 2007 as an offensive assistant.[7] On February 21, 2008, O'Brien was promoted to wide receivers coach.[8] He became the quarterbacks coach and offensive play-caller following the 2008 season after the departure of quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. He was promoted to offensive coordinator in February 2011.
The Patriots gave the Jacksonville Jaguars permission to interview O'Brien for their head coaching vacancy during the Patriots' playoff bye week; O'Brien was scheduled for an interview, but never actually interviewed for the job.[9] Instead, O'Brien interviewed with Penn State staff on January 5, 2012,[10] was offered the head coach position, and signed a four-year contract to become the Nittany Lions' coach.[11] O'Brien continued as New England's offensive coordinator through Super Bowl XLVI.
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Old 02-05-2014   #143
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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You are not incorrect in terms a great defense being key to a championship, but the window in salary cap football is really short. of all the great defenses, starting with the bears, the teams only won once and too often were not real contenders. Its way harder and lasts three or fours years on the long end.
What team has repeated? In the last 10 yrs how many SB's has Manning/Brady won?

Are you saying that building the trenches 1st isn't the way to go? I believe building the trenches 1st is the only way to go if you want lasting success. Especially if there's no Luck/RG3 type QB prospect in this yrs draft.
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Old 02-05-2014   #144
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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I thought Josh McDaniels was the OC/QB coach, play caller for Matt Cassel's 2008 season.

O'Brien was the WR coach in 2008. At least according to Wiki
You're right, my bad
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Old 02-05-2014   #145
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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What team has repeated? In the last 10 yrs how many SB's has Manning/Brady won?
The Giants and Steelers. None.
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Old 02-05-2014   #146
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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The Giants and Steelers. None.
???

Brady won in 2005 (and 2004, repeating, but that falls one year outside the "past 10 years" stipulation) and Manning won in 2007
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Old 02-05-2014   #147
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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???

Brady won in 2005 (and 2004, repeating, but that falls one year outside the "past 10 years" stipulation) and Manning won in 2007
Brady's last SB win took place in 2005 for the 2004 season so falls outside of 10 years.

Not sure of your Eli point. I indicated he/the Giants repeated within the last 10 years - 2007 and 2011 seasons. The Steelers did as well with Big Ben - 2005 and 2008 seasons.
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Old 02-05-2014   #148
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Brady's last SB win took place in 2005 for the 2004 season so falls outside of 10 years.

Not sure of your Eli point. I indicated he/the Giants repeated within the last 10 years - 2007 and 2011 seasons. The Steelers did as well with Big Ben - 2005 and 2008 seasons.
Brady's last Superbowl win was 2005, but it is within the past 10 Superbowl winners. I literally counted back from the Seahawks (SB 48) to the Patriots(SB 39).

And when I said Manning, I meant Peyton, because that's what I assumed the other poster was referring to (as far as "elite QBs") and you answered "none" to the question "How many SBs has Manning/Brady won in the past 10 years".
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Old 02-05-2014   #149
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Brady's last SB win took place in 2005 for the 2004 season so falls outside of 10 years.

Not sure of your Eli point. I indicated he/the Giants repeated within the last 10 years - 2007 and 2011 seasons. The Steelers did as well with Big Ben - 2005 and 2008 seasons.
Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.
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Old 02-05-2014   #150
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
What team has repeated? In the last 10 yrs how many SB's has Manning/Brady won?

Are you saying that building the trenches 1st isn't the way to go? I believe building the trenches 1st is the only way to go if you want lasting success. Especially if there's no Luck/RG3 type QB prospect in this yrs draft.
Well show evidence of this. Building the lines just repeated over and over . And again good luck keeping those lines together ...see 2011 texans
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Old 02-05-2014   #151
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.
I'm sure the Pats way can't really be emulated unless you see a possible GOAT QB lying around somewhere.

As for the 49ers model... well, that can be followed.
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Old 02-05-2014   #152
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.
It's a good concept in theory...the problem is, the trend I see in Superbowl winners (even recent SB winners, there hasn't been a huge trend shift) is that you NEED a good QB (and at least a middling to good defense). Now, if you get that QB after developing your OL/DL (and I'd argue defense), all the power to you, but it's hard to find that QB.

To risk building this OL/DL and THEN search for the QB creates the situation where you're stuck with a mediocre QB who cannot win the big game (Schaub). Then, while you're looking for that franchise QB who can, all the pieces you've put together start to fall apart (age, contracts, etc). Like you said, not much lasts in the league anymore.

I think it's easier to find that special QB and then build around him once you have him (Luck). It's a bit easier to build OL/DL around a QB than it is to fish for a QB while managing the time limit you have with a strong OL/DL/Defense.
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Old 02-05-2014   #153
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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I believe the last back-to-back championship team was Gary Kubiak's Broncos. It's one reason why the guy has such an overrated reputation.


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Old 02-05-2014   #154
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I believe the last back-to-back championship team was Gary Kubiak's Broncos. It's one reason why the guy has such an overrated reputation.
Nope, the Patriots won back-to-back championships in 2003 and 2004. They won three in four years.
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Old 02-05-2014   #155
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

So the last 2 back-2-back champions had John Elway and Tom Brady.

Here's what I really think about the whole situation.:

I've said that the QB is the most important single player on the team. Others have said, and I don't disagree, that Defense wins championships; but, you can't build a Defense with one pick, just like you can't build an O-line with one pick. Seattle built their Defense with a lot of later round picks and free agent acquisitions (I'm no expert on Seattle, so I'm just speaking in general here), so it's not like they got one good player and the Defense was set. We already have JJ Watt and he's a great player, but we just went 2-14 with him.

I think you take the best QB on the board. He may not be a franchise QB, certain to become a Superbowl MVP, but he adds to our chances of winning more now....and he has trade potential in the future. He will not be paid like Peyton Manning his first four years anyway because of NFLPA negotiations. We really need to either do this or find (if even possible) a good, veteran QB now.

Yes, the Defense will be important, but we are going to need many picks and other acquisitions to build a championship Defense. I know these guys are not supposed to be sure thing, championship QBs, but the fact that they are the best in any one draft (or supposed to be) should mean something. If you get a good QB, they will likely be good for many years. Shut-down CBs, for instance, are usually not shut-down CBs for very long. I bet Seattle's Defense is mediocre again within a few years. They did win a championship with Defense, though, and I won't begrudge that from them.
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Old 02-05-2014   #156
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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So the last 2 back-2-back champions had John Elway and Tom Brady.

I think you take the best QB on the board. He may not be a franchise QB, certain to become a Superbowl MVP, but he adds to our chances of winning more now....and he has trade potential in the future. He will not be paid like Peyton Manning his first four years anyway because of NFLPA negotiations. We really need to either do this or find (if even possible) a good, veteran QB now.

See... with Brady's name in there I can't get behind the "take the best QB on the board" argument. To me, it's just like any other position.

We didn't take a RB in the 2009 draft because we felt (so I've been told) that equally talented players were still available after the draft. We brought in Arian Foster & Jeremiah Johnson as undrafted FAs. Both had bodies of work worthy of a first round pick, Arian proved to be NFL ready.

We drafted a LT in the third round of the 2006 draft & we all thought he could handle the job.

Just because there are those who believe Teddy Bridgewater is the best QB in this class, doe not mean that he will be the most successful, again the Tom Brady example... as well as Kaepernick, Wilson, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Cutler, McNabb. None of those guys were the first QB taken (the "best" prospect).

I'm just thinking out loud here, if we selected Jadaveon Clowney, what would happen to Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, or Blake Bortles? Would St Louis take one of them, or Jacksonville, or Cleveland? Most every "mock" I've seen says the Rams would pass & Jacksonville would take one of them, Bortles, & Cleveland will take one, Manziel... & Oakland might take Bridgewater.

To me, that says the "experts" believe none of these guys are an upgrade over Sam Bradford, but better than Blaine Gabbert, Brandon Weedon, & Terrelle Pryor.

I don't know if I want to spend the #1 overall on a player not considered an upgrade over Sam Bradford. There are even some mocks where Jacksonville doesn't take a QB.
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Old 02-07-2014   #157
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

Meant to put this in here as it directly addresses the topic...

Is Bridgewater a Bill O達rien QB?
Quote:
Ever since Bill O達rien was hired by the Texans, there痴 been constant chatter about which of the draft痴 signal callers best fits his offense. Increasingly, to the surprise of many, the talk has centered around signal callers not named Teddy Bridgewater.
billobrien

The shift away from Teddy B. is in part due to O達rien痴 history and preference for quarterbacks with prototypical builds: his two most recent high porfile quarterbacks Tom Brady and his hand-picked QB at Penn State, Christian Hackenberg both sit in the 64, 220-225 pound range. O達rien himself has made comments about how he adores bigger QBs who can sit in the pocket and make all the throws.

In fact, while heading the Penn State program, O達rien did not commonly recruit quarterbacks who were below the 63, 200-lb. threshold. With all that in mind, members of the draft media have increasingly linked the Texans to UCF signal caller Blake Bortles, who痴 also received praise from O達rien in the past.

Who ends up being that top selection remains to be seen by all accounts, the pick痴 expected to be one of the draft痴 top QBs but while it痴 quite possible Bortles will be the guy, we still believe Bridgewater does everything required of an O達rien QB.

To make the case, Aimal Arsalla and I have produced 6 cutups of three 2013 Christian Hackenberg games, as well as one of Tom Brady back in 11. And on the next couple pages, we値l isolate individual plays that show Teddy痴 quite capable of executing Bill O達rien痴 offense.
Quote:


Being able to deliver intermediate throws with accuracy is critical, especially as windows get smaller in the NFL. Bridgewater regularly shows the ability to do so.

Here, we see basic play calls on both accounts but with very difficult throws. In Brady痴 situation, he has to touch-pass it over top of the two Bills defenders, while Bridgewater must rocket it into a small window to his WR. The intermediate range of the field is used in a variety of ways in O達rien痴 offense, much of which requires throws of this caliber...
See all video cutup comparisons here: http://draftbreakdown.com/is-bridgewater-an-obrien-qb/

Better quality videos at above link, as well.
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Old 02-07-2014   #158
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Meant to put this in here as it directly addresses the topic...

Is Bridgewater a Bill O達rien QB?
Quote:
O達rien痴 history and preference for quarterbacks with prototypical builds: his two most recent high porfile quarterbacks Tom Brady and his hand-picked QB at Penn State, Christian Hackenberg both sit in the 64, 220-225 pound range. O達rien himself has made comments about how he adores bigger QBs who can sit in the pocket and make all the throws.

In fact, while heading the Penn State program, O達rien did not commonly recruit quarterbacks who were below the 63, 200-lb. threshold.

Being able to deliver intermediate throws with accuracy is critical, especially as windows get smaller in the NFL. Bridgewater regularly shows the ability to do so.
Sounds like Aj McCarron to me. Everything you can say about Bridgewater you can say about McCarron, except McCarron has the size, played for a "big time" program, against "big time" competition.

But... I don't want to sound like I'm forcing him down anyone's throat.
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Old 02-07-2014   #159
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Sounds like Aj McCarron to me. Everything you can say about Bridgewater you can say about McCarron, except McCarron has the size, played for a "big time" program, against "big time" competition.

But... I don't want to sound like I'm forcing him down anyone's throat.
Not with a straight face.

But to go for the winner - he's black.
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Old 02-07-2014   #160
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
But to go for the winner - he's black.
McCarron? See, I didn't even notice.
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