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Old 01-19-2014   #41
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Yeah, he's a $50 million dollar QB now.
I'm just saying Mallett wouldn't turn down a starting job + the money he would get to remain Brady's backup. I was trying to go off Matt Schaub's first contract with Houston (6years, 48 Million) and Matt Flynn's contract with Seattle (3 years, 26 million), but somehow those contracts weren't as large as I imagined. Still both got 8+ million a year before they proved anything in the NFL, and I think Mallett could be the next QB who hasn't proved anything to get that type of contract.
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Old 01-19-2014   #42
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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I'm just saying Mallett wouldn't turn down a starting job + the money he would get to remain Brady's backup...
No doubt, but chasing Patriot backups can prove hazardous to your wealth.
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Old 01-20-2014   #43
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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I wonder how long he's gonna milk the "well, we're still evaluating the players.." schtick.
If I hear him say just one more time

"everybody wants to know if your defense will be a 3-4 or a 4-3... but now about 70 percent of the games are played in nickel and dime defense because of the way the type of league that it is."

I'm gonna kill somebody
Seems like an overreaction to O'Brien stating was obvious on the field.
I know he's right about that, I wasn't complaining at him, just it's frustrating seing a new interview coming out in the news, open the vid hoping in something actually "new" and hear the same exact speech repeated

maybe something about the new DC, is there anything official yet?
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Old 01-20-2014   #44
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Because he's likely not going to remain with the Patriots long term. Mallett is entering the final year of his contract. Do you honestly think Mallett would turn down a starting job & 50+ Million to remain as Brady's backup when he enters free agency? I don't.

I'm not advocating for trading for Mallett, but I see the benefit for the Patriots trading him if they can get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him. They can then draft a Mettenberger/Mccarron type with that pick to backup Brady until he retires.
Obviously if I'm the Patriots you are damn right I do this deal. I'm saying my view as a disgruntled Texans fan. Hell no! PLEASE don't! Let someone else pay this kid.

I'd rather pay a rookie QB peanuts as opposed to paying a (basically) rookie QB starting QB money. We are up against the cap right now as is, we can't afford all of this. What if next year we have to choose Mallet or Watt? I definitely initially overreacted and I'll always support this sorry team, but man I will be very upset if that was to happen.
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Old 01-20-2014   #45
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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I'm just saying Mallett wouldn't turn down a starting job + the money he would get to remain Brady's backup. I was trying to go off Matt Schaub's first contract with Houston (6years, 48 Million) and Matt Flynn's contract with Seattle (3 years, 26 million), but somehow those contracts weren't as large as I imagined. Still both got 8+ million a year before they proved anything in the NFL, and I think Mallett could be the next QB who hasn't proved anything to get that type of contract.
This would be a good comparison if the new wage structure for draft picks had been in place for a while. But now the balance of Late round pick and FA has shifted towards the Draftee.
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Old 01-23-2014   #46
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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See Post #28. Kraft & Belichick trades Mallett to McNair & O'Brien, friend and student (take advantage of), to the Texans for their 2nd RD, #33 draft pick. With the Texans 33rd pick the Patriots select QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Three years later, Brady retired, the Patriots w/ Garoppolo at QB beat the Texans in regular season who are w/o Ryan Mallett who is out of football for doing his best David Carr/Matt Schaub impersonations. The Patriots go on to the playoffs with another Belichick assistant for McNair to hire and and a backup QB McNair can trade for......while Kraft and Belichick crank the stereo for Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" while singing....second verse same as the first.
Would anyone have had a problem if we traded back into the 2nd round of 2011 to draft Mallet instead of Brandon Harris (& lTJ Yates in the 5th)?

At least this way he learned under Tom Brady & not Matt Schaub.
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Old 01-23-2014   #47
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol
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Old 01-23-2014   #48
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol
How do you fix Schaub? He has been bad for long period of time whether mental or physical. Cannot just hope he shows up in September "better".
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Old 01-23-2014   #49
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol
I think (and someone correct me if wrong) that the financial impact would hit us harder if we kept him another year and released him than if we did it this season with the June 1st cuts. So keeping him as a placehold with a stronger cap hit in 2015 (or dead money I should say) compared to releasing him post June 1st in moving forward makes it seem that it just makes more sense football and financial wise to move from Schaub.

Not to mention the city may grab pitch forks and torches to march on McNair, heh.
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Old 01-23-2014   #50
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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I think (and someone correct me if wrong) that the financial impact would hit us harder if we kept him another year and released him than if we did it this season with the June 1st cuts. So keeping him as a placehold with a stronger cap hit in 2015 (or dead money I should say) compared to releasing him post June 1st in moving forward makes it seem that it just makes more sense football and financial wise to move from Schaub.

Not to mention the city may grab pitch forks and torches to march on McNair, heh.
Schaub's base salary in 2014 is $10M (possibly an additional $1M from other Bonus if it's a roster bonus). This is the money we save by releasing him THIS YEAR.

Making him a June 1 cut only shifts $7M of dead money from 2014 to 2015, incidentally when we need it most. While it looks like there is a lot of cap room in 2015 already, it won't be there after required additions for the 2014 and 2015 seasons (Draft picks, FAs and Salary adjustments to make the required roster limits).

This is chess, not checkers, in the Front Office. You have to look ahead several moves.

Incidentally, this is why I suggested cutting him and resigning him over renegotiating his contract if we wanted him in 2014. ANY extension of the current contract advances $7M of the dead money into 2015.
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Old 01-23-2014   #51
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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How do you fix Schaub? He has been bad for long period of time whether mental or physical. Cannot just hope he shows up in September "better".
Maybe, but there isn't much out there that's better. Like I said, I'm no fan of Schaubs. I just don't see one of these veteran FAs or average to below average rookies making us instantly better at the position. Unless we're willing to trade for another teams back up.

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I think (and someone correct me if wrong) that the financial impact would hit us harder if we kept him another year and released him than if we did it this season with the June 1st cuts. So keeping him as a placehold with a stronger cap hit in 2015 (or dead money I should say) compared to releasing him post June 1st in moving forward makes it seem that it just makes more sense football and financial wise to move from Schaub.

Not to mention the city may grab pitch forks and torches to march on McNair, heh.
I reckon there are several ways to massage the numbers to make it reasonable.

Again, I want a new QB. I also want the new QB to be better than what we have
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Old 01-23-2014   #52
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol
The only reason I'd keep Schaub would be to help get Teddy Bridgewater up to speed and slowly work him in. Too me, getting Mettenberger, Murray, or McCarron would be like getting Scahub (game managers) when they are rookies, and as for Carr, well, I don't want part of HWSNBN pt 2. I know Mettenberger and Carr have much stronger arms than Schaub but I don't think they have the head for the game. Murray and McCarron are more mobile than Schaub and may have better arms, but I just look at them as "game managers." I don't want that again. I want a "franchise QB." I think TB has the potential to be that. Is he Luck, Manning, or Elway? No, but given a little time, I think he could be a Rodgers or Brees type.

I just don't like the idea of drafting ey, and I definitely don't like the idea of spending a 2nd rd pick to get Mallet from NE and drafting a QB in the 3rd. JMO!
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Old 01-23-2014   #53
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year.
What would be the point?

I'm not a Schaub hater, but... if he's got his head straight, best case scenario we make it past the divisional round & we're hoping everything can be perfect again for the 2015 season so we can have a shot again.

Worst case scenario, we're two games into the season (ala 2013) before it's obvious to everyone that he's not fixed. Now we're paying him $14M to be our back up QB again, blocking another viable option (Tj) from seeing the field.

I personally don't like any QB in this draft at 1-1 either, but..... I'm coming to terms with the possibility that there may not be a better choice. However, I like several QBs in this draft. I'd love any of the big 3 outside the top 10. Derek Carr past 15. I like Boyd, Mett, & McCarron at the top of the 2nd. I like Logan Thomas in the third, love him for a fourth.

But either way, Matt Schaub is gone. Tj, Case, & the rookie can compete for the job & I'll hope for the best. But if Josh McCown or Josh Freeman could be had for $3M or less I'd rather them playing for us, instead of some rookie.


Wouldn't it be something if Rick Smith & OB grades Case Keenum equal to Bridgewater, Manziel, & Bortles?
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Old 01-23-2014   #54
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

If Schaub can be 'fixed' and plays at what we know is his best, we can be back in the playoffs next year.
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Old 01-23-2014   #55
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Schaub's base salary in 2014 is $10M (possibly an additional $1M from other Bonus if it's a roster bonus). This is the money we save by releasing him THIS YEAR.
No. Matt's cap number (salary ($10M), roster bonus ($1M), & prorated bonus ($3.5M)) is $14.5M there is still $10.5M from Matt's signing bonus that has not been accounted for against our cap. The difference of those two numbers, $4M, is what we would save


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Making him a June 1 cut only shifts $7M of dead money from 2014 to 2015, incidentally when we need it most. While it looks like there is a lot of cap room in 2015 already, it won't be there after required additions for the 2014 and 2015 seasons (Draft picks, FAs and Salary adjustments to make the required roster limits).
There are other moves that can be & at that time probably should be made..... we may have to cut Jjo ($8.5M), Myers ($6M), & Foster ($4M). Added to the $10M we save by cutting Schaub (even considering the $7M dead money) our cap space goes up $28.5M for a total in excess of $43M

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This is chess, not checkers, in the Front Office. You have to look ahead several moves.
Exactly, we can't get hung up on $7M preparing for something we may never have to pay.

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Incidentally, this is why I suggested cutting him and resigning him over renegotiating his contract if we wanted him in 2014. ANY extension of the current contract advances $7M of the dead money into 2015.
Incidentally, you're still wrong. Asking him to take a paycut is not the same as renegotiating a contract. There will be no "advances $7M of dead money into 2015" if Schaub plays for the Texans in 2014. The rest of his contract is still intact.

He's got a cap number of $17M for 2015 & $19M for 2016. We can designate him a June 1, 2015 cut & we'd only have to count $3.5M against both numbers.

Asking him to renegotiate can save $4M off his 2014 cap number, maybe more if Rick Smith can really stick it to him.
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Old 01-23-2014   #56
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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The only reason I'd keep Schaub would be to help get Teddy Bridgewater up to speed and slowly work him in. Too me, getting Mettenberger, Murray, or McCarron would be like getting Scahub (game managers) when they are rookies, and as for Carr, well, I don't want part of HWSNBN pt 2. I know Mettenberger and Carr have much stronger arms than Schaub but I don't think they have the head for the game. Murray and McCarron are more mobile than Schaub and may have better arms, but I just look at them as "game managers." I don't want that again. I want a "franchise QB." I think TB has the potential to be that. Is he Luck, Manning, or Elway? No, but given a little time, I think he could be a Rodgers or Brees type.

I just don't like the idea of drafting ey, and I definitely don't like the idea of spending a 2nd rd pick to get Mallet from NE and drafting a QB in the 3rd. JMO!
Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls as a game manager. He's won none since becoming "the GOAT"

Rothlisberger won his first SuperBowl as a game manager.

Flacco.... game manager.

There's nothing wrong with a game manager if he's got some plus ability. For Brady & Roethlisberger, it was their ability to extend plays & make plays downfield. Flacco was probably the best QB of the group when he won his first Super Bowl... more plays from the pocket.

Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson were on the lower end of the spectrum when talking about "game managers."
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Old 01-23-2014   #57
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
No. Matt's cap number (salary ($10M), roster bonus ($1M), & prorated bonus ($3.5M)) is $14.5M there is still $10.5M from Matt's signing bonus that has not been accounted for against our cap. The difference of those two numbers, $4M, is what we would save




There are other moves that can be & at that time probably should be made..... we may have to cut Jjo ($8.5M), Myers ($6M), & Foster ($4M). Added to the $10M we save by cutting Schaub (even considering the $7M dead money) our cap space goes up $28.5M for a total in excess of $43M



Exactly, we can't get hung up on $7M preparing for something we may never have to pay.



Incidentally, you're still wrong. Asking him to take a paycut is not the same as renegotiating a contract. There will be no "advances $7M of dead money into 2015" if Schaub plays for the Texans in 2014. The rest of his contract is still intact.

He's got a cap number of $17M for 2015 & $19M for 2016. We can designate him a June 1, 2015 cut & we'd only have to count $3.5M against both numbers.

Asking him to renegotiate can save $4M off his 2014 cap number, maybe more if Rick Smith can really stick it to him.
There is $10.5M in signing bonus dead money. That is gone, regardless of how we restructure or cut. With the contract in place, $3.5 M of the dead money will be payable in 2014 and in ADDITION, his $10M salary and $1M roster bonus. The relief of this Salary and Roster bonus is the only real savings on the contract in 2014. All future Salaries and Roster bonuses will also be gone, but his Dead money from his signing bonus will remain. If he is a June 1 cut, the $3.5M for 2014 still accrues, but the remaining $7M is deferred until 2015. If his contract is renegotiated, His dead money for 2015 will be $7M unless extended into 2016 (In which case $3.5M for each year in dead money - still $7M). In any event, it is just transferred from year to year, not eliminated. Any salary would be above the current cost of the contract if terminated.

The $4M represents the Salary $10M and Roster bonus $1M and $3.5M Signing bonus Total of $14.5M minus the remaining Signing Bonus (or dead money) of $10.5M. If you don't cut him, the remaining $7M dead money is shifted to 2015 or 2015 and 2016.

You can't mix and match obligations any more than you can mix assets and liabilities and come up with a valid and meaningful number. The salary and Roster bonuses can be eliminated by cutting Schaub, the dead money can't. That can only be shifted or allocated to different years according to the terms of the Master agreement.
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Old 01-23-2014   #58
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
You can't mix and match obligations any more than you can mix assets and liabilities and come up with a valid and meaningful number. The salary and Roster bonuses can be eliminated by cutting Schaub, the dead money can't. That can only be shifted or allocated to different years according to the terms of the Master agreement.
No one is asking him to renegotiate. We want him to take a pay cut. That salary you're talking about... knock it down from $10M to $4M. We add $6M to our cap.

We cut him after the season is over, designated as a June 1st cut. His cap hit for 2015 is only $3.5M. His cap hit for 2016 is $3.5M.

No need to cut him, then resign him. Not pushing anything into the future, that isn't already accounted for already in the future. We gain $13.5M towards our 2015 cap. We gain $15.5M towards our 2016 cap.


You want us to cut him, take the $10M hit, then pay him $4M for 2014. He'll still have the same $4M "cap hit" what would be the point?

We'd be better off to just let him play out his contract as is.
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Old 01-24-2014   #59
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
If Schaub can be 'fixed' and plays at what we know is his best, we can be back in the playoffs next year.
He's already been neutered.........what more do you want to put the poor guy through?
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Old 01-24-2014   #60
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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He's already been neutered.........what more do you want to put the poor guy through?
CnD, is his foot healed? Will it be better this year?

In your opinion does he have a physical thing or just a head thing ailing him?
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