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Old 03-26-2014   #201
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Kaepernick.
Or do you think that Harbaugh was perfectly happy with Alex Smith and spent a #3 on Colin K. just for the heck of it?
You're probably right about that. After reading your post, I did a quick search and easily found this:

Quote:
Dad: Jim Harbaugh thought Colin Kaepernick was best player in 2011 draft

The San Francisco 49ers traded up nine spots to draft quarterback Colin Kaepernick 36th overall the fourth pick of the second round in the 2011 draft.

Apparently coach Jim Harbaugh already thought the team was getting great value and couldn't wait any longer. Harbaugh's father, Jack, shared the following anecdote Friday night on NFL Network's The Coaches Show.
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Old 03-26-2014   #202
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Kaepernick.
Or do you think that Harbaugh was perfectly happy with Alex Smith and spent a #3 on Colin K. just for the heck of it?
Not sure what Kaep has to do with my quote. I said drafted "after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd)." Kaep was drafted in the 2nd. He doesn't fall into after the 3rd or 2nd.
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Old 03-26-2014   #203
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
You're probably right about that. After reading your post, I did a quick search and easily found this:
i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd.
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Old 03-26-2014   #204
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd.
Not if he thought he could get him in the second round.

Mike
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Old 03-26-2014   #205
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

When was Foles drafted? Not sure if the Iggles planned on starting him but I don't think they thought that Vick was a longtime solution.

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Old 03-26-2014   #206
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by Texanmike02 View Post
Not if he thought he could get him in the second round.

Mike
if the #1 player, who happens to be a QB, on your board falls to you at 7 and you pass on him cause you're pretty sure he's going to be there in the 2nd round...then either you're lying or you're stupid but got lucky.

let's not forget, they were on the market for a young QB at the time. this was before Alex Smith's "resurrection".
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Old 03-26-2014   #207
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd.
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Originally Posted by Texanmike02 View Post
Not if he thought he could get him in the second round.
Not if they didn't feel they needed a QB and thought whoever they drafted in the 1st would help the team more even though not BPA. Then when he fell lower than they expected they decided to go ahead and get him. Aldon Smith who had 14 sacks as a rookie and 19.5 in his 2nd year was their pick in the 1st.

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When was Foles drafted? Not sure if the Iggles planned on starting him but I don't think they thought that Vick was a longtime solution.
Foles was brought in to replace VY as Vick's backup. Vick was one year into a 5 year $80 mil contract.
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Old 03-26-2014   #208
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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if the #1 player, who happens to be a QB, on your board falls to you at 7 and you pass on him cause you're pretty sure he's going to be there in the 2nd round...then either you're lying or you're stupid but got lucky.

let's not forget, they were on the market for a young QB at the time. this was before Alex Smith's "resurrection".
You're making the assumption that the #1 player on your board is the QB.

What if the #33 player on your board is the QB and you think he can be a QB who could develop into a franchise QB? What if the #25 player on your board is the first QB you have on your board and then you have about 7 or 8 bunched up pretty tight within about 20 picks or so?

If the #1 player you have on your board is a QB and you need a QB, then you take the QB. You only trade back if the #1 player on your board is not necessarily at a position that you need OR you judge that you need more picks. Otherwise, you take the guy at the top of your board whether he's a QB or not.

BUT! You have to remember the way that teams construct their boards aren't like the way that "draft experts" construct their boards. When a team is drafting BPA, it's a totally different thing than when someone outside the team is calculating which player is BPA.
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Old 03-26-2014   #209
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Not sure what Kaep has to do with my quote. I said drafted "after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd)." Kaep was drafted in the 2nd. He doesn't fall into after the 3rd or 2nd.
Aaaah....fair enough.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is. Being drafted in the first round means, you're tied to that guy for an extended period even if he's unsuccessful. OTOH, not being drafted in the first round doesn't exclude you from winning the starter's job if, as O'Brien claims and Pete Carroll has shown, your head coach has a truly unbiased open competition.

So if O'Brien truly doesn't see a whit's worth of difference between the "top three" and everyone else and he may well decide to go BPA in rounds one, two, and maybe three and then snag A.J. McCarron or a Murray (just to pick a couple of names) in the fourth. But, unless he was lying through his teeth about the open competition thing, that doesn't eliminate McCarron/Murray from competing, and maybe winning, the starter job.

I guessing (totally guessing) that you want to see O'Brien pick a QB at 1-1 so you know he's committed to him and we're not going into the season with Fitzy or T.J. or Case as our starter. Or if one of those guys does start in 2014 he'll be supplanted by our new guy in 2015.
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Old 03-26-2014   #210
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Aaaah....fair enough.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is.
His point is no one drafted a 4th rounder or later with a "realistic" expectation of that guy being the franchise QB.... or even starter.

& he's right, unless you believe Sean Peyton believed in Romo way back when.

Still... why spend a first on Stafford, when you can get a Romo undrafted? Or a Schaub in the third, or a Foles in the third, or a Cousins, or even a 7th rounder like Fitzpatrick who's been in the league going on 10 seasons... or Matt Cassel?

If you see a Brady, or a Manning, or a Brees, or a special QB that falls to you in the first round, yeah... you can't pass him up, if you believe that's who he is. But for someone who'll most likely be that second tier guy? You can find better value.

I also don't believe the round makes the man. QBs drafted in the first are more likely to succeed, I believe, not because they have more talent (New England thought they got the best QB in the draft with a 3rd round pick in 2011). But because the intention is to do as much as they can to make him successful.

If you draft a guy in the third round, or trade for him, or sign him through FA, & do everything you can to make him successful, he'll have a better chance at being successful.
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Old 03-26-2014   #211
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When was Foles drafted? Not sure if the Iggles planned on starting him but I don't think they thought that Vick was a longtime solution.



Mike

Foles was 3rd rd 88 overall


Your man... Pots and pans
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Old 03-26-2014   #212
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Aaaah....fair enough.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is. Being drafted in the first round means, you're tied to that guy for an extended period even if he's unsuccessful. OTOH, not being drafted in the first round doesn't exclude you from winning the starter's job if, as O'Brien claims and Pete Carroll has shown, your head coach has a truly unbiased open competition.
My point was about draft strategy by teams. The proposal I was responding to was now in an hour of desperation at QB to wait until the 4th round or later. I am not saying force the need and pick one higher. I am saying no team sets out to solve their QB problem in that fashion. Successes from that low come from exceeded expectations by guys picked as backups with potential, not by design.

Quote:
So if O'Brien truly doesn't see a whit's worth of difference between the "top three" and everyone else and he may well decide to go BPA in rounds one, two, and maybe three and then snag A.J. McCarron or a Murray (just to pick a couple of names) in the fourth. But, unless he was lying through his teeth about the open competition thing, that doesn't eliminate McCarron/Murray from competing, and maybe winning, the starter job.
Not saying they should be eliminated from competition and hopefully they exceed their draft expectation and turn into the next great surprise. Just saying that is not a plan for solving the future of the QB position followed by NFL teams.

Quote:
I guessing (totally guessing) that you want to see O'Brien pick a QB at 1-1 so you know he's committed to him and we're not going into the season with Fitzy or T.J. or Case as our starter. Or if one of those guys does start in 2014 he'll be supplanted by our new guy in 2015.
Nope. I want OB to have a plan for a new starter no later than the beginning of 2015. I don't care who, when or how particularly although I have opinions about individuals. If there is a surprise along the way, great. But as with the discussion with beerlover on taking two QBs late in his mock I think that is close to wasting picks which would better be spent on upgrading other positions/depth rather than a viable plan for finding a future starting QB.
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Old 03-26-2014   #213
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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If you see a Brady, or a Manning, or a Brees, or a special QB that falls to you in the first round, yeah... you can't pass him up, if you believe that's who he is. But for someone who'll most likely be that second tier guy? You can find better value.
Keep in mind, we passed on Aaron Rodgers for Travis Johnson. We basically traded Joe Flacco away for Duane Brown. We passed on Colin Kaepernick for Jj Watt.

So you don't have to have the #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. We need to get better at evaluating the QBs we have & the ones available to us in the draft (or FA).
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Old 03-26-2014   #214
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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Keep in mind, we passed on Aaron Rodgers for Travis Johnson. We basically traded Joe Flacco away for Duane Brown. We passed on Colin Kaepernick for Jj Watt.

So you don't have to have the #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. We need to get better at evaluating the QBs we have & the ones available to us in the draft (or FA).
The only one of those I would put in the mistake column is Rodgers and that was the prior, prior regime.
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Old 03-26-2014   #215
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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The only one of those I would put in the mistake column is Rodgers and that was the prior, prior regime.
Agreed. But some people like Flacco & Kaepernick so I included their names.

Aaron Rodgers, I don't think anyone knew he would be this good. Good, yes. Quickly forget the gunslinging, HoF, living legend good... no idea. Of course Bret's texting proclivities might have helped many want to forget.
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Old 03-26-2014   #216
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

...
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Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock 16h

Bill O'Brien mentions looking for a QB prospect that has a "quick mind". Has to be able to process things in 2-3 seconds.
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Old 03-26-2014   #217
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

I think O'Brien is doing this the way it should be done. He's "kicking the tires" on every prospect he can to see who fits what he wants to do with this offense.

Size, scrambling ability, pure arm strength, and all those other Oooh, Aaaah things are not as high on his list as football smarts, passing accuracy, and work ethic.

Just maybe he thinks he's got as good a guy on this roster as there is in this draft. And that guy is already used to NFL speed. That guy has already seen NFL coverages. And by "good" I mean NFL ready.

Perhaps this year may just be between "Fitzy" (anyone else notice that O'Brien gave him a nickname already), Keenum, and Yates. The new boy - no matter what round he's picked - might just have to watch this season. ...unless he's a real quick study.
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Old 03-26-2014   #218
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

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i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd.
I understand the perspective. The only thing I'd speculate is that the current power struggle between Harbaugh and front office has been on-going for years. Harbaugh could have had Kap rated high, but he's not the only one making decisions. The fact that his QB ended up being good most likely empowered him, and along with three straight NFC championship games and a SB appearance, he's probably exerting his power as HC more than ever. The result is recent stories leaked about trouble in San Fran's front office.

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So if O'Brien truly doesn't see a whit's worth of difference between the "top three" and everyone else and he may well decide to go BPA in rounds one, two, and maybe three and then snag A.J. McCarron or a Murray (just to pick a couple of names) in the fourth. But, unless he was lying through his teeth about the open competition thing, that doesn't eliminate McCarron/Murray from competing, and maybe winning, the starter job.
We don't know O'Brien well enough as a HC, so I can only surmise that a lot of this talk is jedi mind tricks that he learned from Belichick. Maybe he really sees very little separation between all these QBs, but I have a hard time believing that the top 3 are not far from someone drafted in the 3rd or 4th round.

I honestly think O'Brien is keeping his cards very close to his chest in order to keep everyone guessing, especially other teams. If a team values a player high enough, they will make an offer for the pick. I think we need to be a little wary and skeptical about everything being said, because I do not believe for a second that it's all pure truth with regards to their thoughts on players.
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Old 03-26-2014   #219
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

Gotta hand it to OB with his comments in the last day because he's been downright garrulous while being entertaining and even informative but not rambling. Did we find out what's he gonna do with the 1.1 ? Of course not, but he's given some real insight into the thinking process he and his staff have gone thru to include the pros and cons of some of the prospects.
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Old 03-26-2014   #220
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Default Re: O達rien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
We don't know O'Brien well enough as a HC, so I can only surmise that a lot of this talk is jedi mind tricks that he learned from Belichick. Maybe he really sees very little separation between all these QBs, but I have a hard time believing that the top 3 are not far from someone drafted in the 3rd or 4th round.

I honestly think O'Brien is keeping his cards very close to his chest in order to keep everyone guessing, especially other teams. If a team values a player high enough, they will make an offer for the pick. I think we need to be a little wary and skeptical about everything being said, because I do not believe for a second that it's all pure truth with regards to their thoughts on players.
oh snap... next you'll be trying to convince me there is no Santa Claus.
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