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Old 01-10-2014   #21
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

Best news I have heard this week..

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Was watching some Penn St. and Iowa; they both employed the ZBS alright.
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Old 01-10-2014   #22
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

Would at least make for a more interesting offense..

Would Romeo ever take a swing at Mangini?

Come to think of it -- our coaching staff might make
a pretty good DL (sizewise)

RC in the middle, Mangini and O'brien at end..
nyuk nyuk nyuk..

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Man screw it, somebody tell Billy boy to install the ol' Chuck and Duck....

Bring back to glory days of the Oilers...
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Old 10-13-2014   #23
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
If it's anything like the Patriots, here's a good article for you:

Speak My Language


Quote:
The theory here is that no matter the formation, there is an outside receiver, an inside receiver, and a middle receiver, and each will be responsible for running his designated route. For the quarterback, this means the play can be run repeatedly, from different formations and with different personnel, all while his read stays effectively the same. Once receivers understand each concept, they only have to know at which position theyíre lined up. The personnel and formation might cause the defense to respond differently, but for New England those changes only affect which side Brady prefers or which receiver he expects to be open. This conceptual approach is how the Patriots are able to run the same basic plays, whether spreading the field with four or five receivers or using multiple tight ends and running backs.

The most recent innovation to fall into New Englandís Erhardt-Perkins framework is a commitment to the no-huddle...
Really like having all three 3rds of the field to use from the snap, but we've got to start getting first downs to make the no huddle effective. Looks like we're:

28th in 1st downs per game,
29th in 1st Quarter scoring, and
28th in plays per game.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/plays-per-game
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Old 10-13-2014   #24
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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post








Really like having all three 3rds of the field to use from the snap, but we've got to start getting first downs to make the no huddle effective. Looks like we're:



28th in 1st downs per game,

29th in 1st Quarter scoring, and

28th in plays per game.



http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/plays-per-game

Great article. Thanks! I learned a lot. It sounds like this system was developed to simplify the offense play calling. So why do some players (namely Ochocinco) have a hard time adjusting to it?
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Old 10-14-2014   #25
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Great article. Thanks! I learned a lot. It sounds like this system was developed to simplify the offense play calling. So why do some players (namely Ochocinco) have a hard time adjusting to it?
He's got to be on the same page with the QB. He's got to see what the QB sees.

& I doubt it was just an inability to pick it up that kept him on the bench. OchoCinco was a very "me" oriented player in a very "team" oriented environment.
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Old 10-14-2014   #26
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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He's got to be on the same page with the QB. He's got to see what the QB sees.

& I doubt it was just an inability to pick it up that kept him on the bench. OchoCinco was a very "me" oriented player in a very "team" oriented environment.
I thought he didn't run the right routes and instead preferred to just run to open spots.

OTOH, when he got to the Dolphins, it wasn't just his routes, it was his hands. He couldn't seem to catch anything.
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Old 10-14-2014   #27
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

[In best Irish Brogue]
(To the tune of "If I only had a Brain" from The Wizzard of Oz.)

We would cheer away the hours
in sunshine and in showers
and cold torrential rain...

Other teams would be crappin'
fearin' J.J. Watt's attackin'
If we ONLY HAD A QUARTERBACK!
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Old 10-14-2014   #28
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
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Old 10-14-2014   #29
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
Well, the Texans and the Patriots playbooks in that regard are pretty much the same thing. Those plays are in our playbook.

But a lot of this boils down to:
1) The Gameplan -- figuring out which of our plays we're going to focus on that we think are going to take advantage of what our opponents do and that's on the coaches

2) The calls at the line -- because in this offense, if you have a group of receivers on a side, the QB can change their route combination to any other route combination for that number of receivers. It's up to the QB to make the pre-snap read and then alter those routes to something that will take advantage of that defense. This is where I feel Fitzpatrick is failing because he's not putting them into route combinations that free them up.

Where you're calling the route combinations uninspired and ineffective and blaming the playcalling and play design, I'm placing the blame on Fitzpatrick because that's the route combo he chose to go with.

This is what's so intrinsically different from our old offense. Getting guys open with the route combinations was on the play design and on Kubiak's playcalling with the old system and it worked and he was good at it, but the new system just doesn't work that way. And right now, I think that's probably Fitzpatrick's fault unless OB and Godsey aren't preparing him properly to change to the most effective routine combos.
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Old 10-14-2014   #30
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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This is what's so intrinsically different from our old offense. Getting guys open with the route combinations was on the play design and on Kubiak's playcalling with the old system and it worked and he was good at it, but the new system just doesn't work that way. And right now, I think that's probably Fitzpatrick's fault unless OB and Godsey aren't preparing him properly to change to the most effective routine combos.
it may just be that he hasn't seen enough yet. Learning it on the board & in practice is one thing but when he sees it on the field it may look totally different. That may be why he seems to look a lot better after halftime because he's seen most of their defense by then & the coaches were able to help him relate in the locker room.
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Old 10-14-2014   #31
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post

Where you're calling the route combinations uninspired and ineffective and blaming the playcalling and play design, I'm placing the blame on Fitzpatrick because that's the route combo he chose to go with.


We'll just have to agree to disagree ....
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Old 10-14-2014   #32
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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We'll just have to agree to disagree ....
So you're saying that Fitzpatrick can't audible out of a bad play?
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Old 10-14-2014   #33
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
That's just one play/route concept.

Between the hash marks...

Patriots in 210(44% more) total attempts are
Quote:
20+ yards: 3/8 - 107 - 1TD - 0INT for PFF Passer Rating = 125.0

10-19 yards: 19/32 - 323 - 2TD - 1INT for PFF Passer Rating = 101.4
Texans in 160 total attempts are
Quote:
20+ yards: 4/6 - 159 - 1TD - 2INT for PFF Passer Rating = 109.7

10-19 yards: 11/16 - 147 - 0TD - 1INT for PFF Passer Rating = 71.6
What we're seeing is an offense run more through WRs than TEs/SlotWRs, as that is where the talent is on this team.

TE targets(57): Gronk 44, Hoomanawanui 2, Wright 11

TE targets(18): Graham 12, Fiedo 3, Griffin 3

What we need is to run more plays. 80+ per game. And we need our young TE to master the snap count and blocking assignments so he can graduate to pass-catching. And we need better arm talent at QB.
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Old 10-14-2014   #34
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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So you're saying that Fitzpatrick can't audible out of a bad play?
Not at all ... What I'm stating is that while Fitzpatrick sucks .... so does this scheme. Its very rudimentary as far as NFL offenses go. It also ignores routes that attack the middle of the field .... and doesn't take advantage of the strengths of some players - Particularly:

Arian Foster with the lack of play action.
A TE who has proven the ability to produce in Graham.
Doesn't attack the middle of the field allowing defenses to largely ignore defending it concentrating their efforts outside.
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Old 10-14-2014   #35
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

Not sure where you are getting your stats. Fitz is 4 of 10 beyond 20 yds.

And comparing anything to this year's Patriots is a bit off.

Edit - he is 109.7 from 30+ where he is 3 of 4 which kind of proves the point it ain't even being tried rather than they are good at it.
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Old 10-14-2014   #36
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
You're right in that this is just 1 play where the routes don't feature straight down the middle routes, but I have seen Gronk run up the hash marks on TDs or long gains. What I do find funny is that the articles says, "Itís easier for the players to learn. Itís easier for the quarterback to learn". Hmm...no need to go into what comes next
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Old 10-14-2014   #37
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Not at all ... What I'm stating is that while Fitzpatrick sucks .... so does this scheme. Its very rudimentary as far as NFL offenses go. It also ignores routes that attack the middle of the field .... and doesn't take advantage of the strengths of some players - Particularly:

Arian Foster with the lack of play action.
A TE who has proven the ability to produce in Graham.
Doesn't attack the middle of the field allowing defenses to largely ignore defending it concentrating their efforts outside.
What I'm saying is that you're attributing something to the scheme that's not attributable to the scheme. It's not the scheme that's not attacking the middle of the field. The Patriots use this same offense and they use their TEs and they attack the middle of the field.

I think it's more of a problem with what Fitzpatrick is comfortable with and what Fitzpatrick chooses to go after.
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Old 10-14-2014   #38
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
What I'm saying is that you're attributing something to the scheme that's not attributable to the scheme. It's not the scheme that's not attacking the middle of the field. The Patriots use this same offense and they use their TEs and they attack the middle of the field.

I think it's more of a problem with what Fitzpatrick is comfortable with and what Fitzpatrick chooses to go after.
There's different ways of calling the "same" offense. When was the last time you saw a TE running 20 yds down the seam?
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Old 10-14-2014   #39
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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I think it's more of a problem with what Fitzpatrick is comfortable with and what Fitzpatrick chooses to go after.
Have you watched Fitz in the past ?

I recall the a game he played against the Texans where he carved them up with deep to intermediate routes in the middle of the field - as a rookie.

He threw quite a few balls up the seams with the Bills.

He also utilized the TE's in Buffalo (2012 stats) Scott Chandler caught 43 balls from him and Dorin Dickerson 9.

Delanie Walker caught 60 balls last season (2013) for the Tinbreds with Fitz (and Locker) at QB.


13 catches for the TE's thru 6 games .....
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Old 10-14-2014   #40
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

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Have you watched Fitz in the past ?

I recall the a game he played against the Texans where he carved them up with deep to intermediate routes in the middle of the field - as a rookie.

He threw quite a few balls up the seams with the Bills.

He also utilized the TE's in Buffalo (2012 stats) Scott Chandler caught 43 balls from him and Dorin Dickerson 9.

Delanie Walker caught 60 balls last season (2013) for the Tinbreds with Fitz (and Locker) at QB.


13 catches for the TE's thru 6 games .....
How often do TE's even go out in this offense to date? Are they staying in to block or running routes and can't get open, or get open and fitz don't find them?
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