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Does Anybody still BELIEVE in Case Keenum?

Do you s still believe Case Keenum can be a SUCCESSFUL NFL QB?

  • Total voters
    136
Lord Bills

Lord Bills

Destruction
Does anybody still think he can be a successful NFL qb? Or did his play and inability to win a game for a 2-14 team enough evidence to know that that he is no good? Or do you think he still has a chance to be successful with a proper head coach and a proper team?

My personal opinion is that Keenum was placed in a bad situation with a lame duck coach, with a flawed offensive philosophy, and a bad team saddled with injuries on both sides of the ball.

I want to see what he can do with a full off season and a new coaching staff.
 
I'm playing with your choice of words. Can Keenum be successful? Yes, but I don't think he will be successful. And that's why I think QB is the biggest need for the Texans.
 
I'm unsure but I think it's unlikely and more important than that I think that the window for learning whether he could ever be that guy is closed. Did he get a fair shot? Probably not but in the NFL almost no one ever gets to walk into a perfectly optimal situation. Everyone else makes do with the chance they've been given.

Nobody has time to wait for Case to develop some more. If he isn't just outright released and makes it into OTA's he'd better impress the hell out of BOB. If he does that then he'd better learn that offense inside and out before again impressing him in camp and preseason. Even then it will all more than likely be for nothing because BOB's going to bring in a starter either through the draft or free agency (and maybe both).

There should be a fourth option in the poll. "It doesn't really matter anymore".
 
No.

Can we just admit that the dwindling lovefest would not exist if he was an UDFA from UCONN or Boston College that lost all of his starts?
 
Fun with numbers... :kitten:

Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Case Keenum is the 2nd player in NFL history to lose 200+ yards on fewer than 20 sacks. Ken Stabler did it twice in the 70s. #Texans

Keenum was sacked 19 times for 201 yards (10.58). By comparison, Schaub was sacked 21 times for 162 yards (7.7). #Texans

If Case Keenum never starts an NFL game again, he'll go down as the only player since the merger to throw for 1,700+ yards without a win.
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I would like to see what he can do with foster and OD in the line up, and a compitent staff who will let the boy play his style of football instead of trying to turn him into Schaub 2.0. And people can say what they want but before the coaching staff got in his head about staying in the pocket, he was leaving the pocket and making things happen down field. Defenses can adjust all they want but that isnt the reason he began struggling.

Yes i still have faith keenum could be an above average QB. If not here he will do it some where.
 
First of all, there's a need to define "successful".

A guy who can often carry a team with timely helps from the D and ST, most probably not: the odd of winning a lottery.

A guy who can occasionally carry a team; not sure.
Heck, even Eli Manning did pretty much niata this year; nor did Matt Ryan.

A guy who can be an above average QB (see Schaub in his good and pretty good years.) Not sure. After all, it took Schaub many years to even get there.

A below average QB (17th- 25th).
Don't know either, but quite possible.

A stinky QB. Maybe, but not likely.

A solid back-up QB; highly likely, but he needs to stay upright first.

Basically, not sure.
The odds are stacked against him, like Herv or some others who had stated similar thoughts before.
 
Not sure.

I don't think the circumstances were really right for any QB. Not a good line, no running game. Whatever. He lost a lot, but showed some promise. I voted not sure because you just can never tell.
 
He'll successful when he launches his car wash business in Houston. Rainbows would be a good name for it as it's the only passes he was able to complete.
 
Questionable pocket presense (happy feet), questionable short/medium accuracy.

Put NO.

Pity, would of been a nice underdog story and I did appreciate his long ball.
 
obrien is gonna run spread offense right? i think keenum with improvement and learning from his experience has a shot in the nfl. his talent is pretty evident in a lot of throws and plays he makes.

i find it hard to believe a guy who put up such staggering numbers in college who basically ran no huddle spread offense cant read a blitz or a defense.

It was kubiak who couldnt read a defense. Schaub had the same problem even before keenum was a texan. the half time struggles that keenum had was a glaring complaint by texan fans about this team way before keenum was a texan.

Experience is the best teacher and keenum certainly got that this year. People forget he was the 3rd string and was thrust into the starting line up because of schaub and yates suckage.

People gave schaub 7 years and a pro bowl laden team. People dont have patience anymore. EVerything is labeled a bust, loser, or winner right away.

Everything is so definitive nowadays.
 
I think the question comes down to if you think Keenum is capable of being taught to read defenses and make the crucial short to mid passes with accuracy in tight spaces. These are the primary knocks against him, so it really comes down to the simple premise of can he learn this stuff or not?

The kid obviously has physical talent. He can scramble and has an arm. So it is a cerebral question, and to me, it was obvious that Kubiak spent very little time with the kid to develop this stuff.

And just my speculation, but I think he was the pawn in the middle of a power struggle between the stubborn head coach and the GM/owner. If this is true to any degree, and that the FO was making Kubiak start him, what kind of attention to detail and preparation was he truly getting?

I'm not saying Kubiak undermined it, but to me, the HC was obviously to the point of burn out this season and lost his security blanket when Schaub's wheels completely fell off. What makes it curious, and perhaps gives the scenario some legs, is that Yates - i.e. no. 2 QB on the roster - was immediately bypassed to start Keenum. Yates threw a pick 6 when Schaub went down, but that in and of itself was not a reason to bench a QB based on precedent set with Schaub.

I think something else was behind Keenum starting, even to the point of it being mentioned at the press conference when they fired Kubiak. It was all very surreal and strange. Add to this that I do not think the FO is very happy with Kubiak right now. They took some shots at him a couple of times during press conferences, and it was obviously directed toward Kubiak. I do not recall anything like that when they let Capers go. Something put a burr under McNair's saddle to go there.

So my answer was "I don't know". I do agree with Spencer Tillman that Keenum will be in training camp, and the reason is simple: Case is cheap right now and doesn't cost the Texans much. You bring a lot of players into training camp, so I have little doubt that he's there as an arm. Maybe he can spark something for O'Brien to give him a shot. Who knows...
 
Lord Bills said:
obrien is gonna run spread offense right?
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Probably not.

He might be innovative and he might try a few things. He might even use the pistol and some read-option stuff if he has the right QB.

But he's not going to just go to a college-type spread offense. Remember, he was an OC at New England and he's the guy that got Gronk and Hernandez going.

If Case can fit in, great. If not, c'est la vie.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Questionable pocket presense (happy feet), questionable short/medium accuracy.

Put NO.

Pity, would of been a nice underdog story and I did appreciate his long ball.
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Fist off, for those who don't know, Kiwi and I were against Gabbert pre-draft.
It's not like we don't know each other.
We saw eye to eye why Gabbert WAS not a good prospect.

Maybe I will just bring up each and every passes so that Kiwi and Corrosion and all can tell me where they saw the fail in Keenum , not just with the team.

My work is slowing down a bit; but it can pick up anytime unlike years past.

If I ever get to it ; I will hope to create more than a doubt.
(Obviously, it will depend on the new coaching staff/)
It could just be my exercise for the off-season/

Live and learn.
 
The1ApplePie said:
No.

Can we just admit that the dwindling lovefest would not exist if he was an UDFA from UCONN or Boston College that lost all of his starts?
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No. Because it's not true. Presumptive questions are inadmissible in court and common on message boards like this one. Now not liking Yankees is a whole other question. I'm having to deal with that because of our new coach. Being a Yankee doesn't guarantee they're an arrogant snob, but it sure increases the chances.
 
76Texan said:
Fist off, for those who don't know, Kiwi and I were against Gabbert pre-draft.
It's not like we don't know each other.
We saw eye to eye why Gabbert WAS not a good prospect.

Maybe I will just bring up each and every passes so that Kiwi and Corrosion and all can tell me where they saw the fail in Keenum , not just with the team.

My work is slowing down a bit; but it can pick up anytime unlike years past.

If I ever get to it ; I will hope to create more than a doubt.
(Obviously, it will depend on the new coaching staff/)
It could just be my exercise for the off-season/

Live and learn.
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The reason I list happy feet is the way he ran away from pressure and took big sacks. Not the same as Gabbert's issues necessarily but a real bug bear for me.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
The reason I list happy feet is the way he ran away from pressure and took big sacks. Not the same as Gabbert's issues necessarily but a real bug bear for me.
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The OLine sucked even before Keenum become a starter. Schaub was one of the most pressured QBs in the league when he was a starter. No QB would have looked good behind this OL.

How could a QB not develop happy feet when he is under constant pressure?

The Texans were tanking were Keenum become the starter. No hot reads for him when he was blitzed.
 
I don't think any of our QBs are as bad as they played this year. I think they will all play better in different environments when they get their next shot. There was something seriously wrong with this offense on a lot of levels.
 
I think that 200 yards on less than 20 sacks shows that Keenum needs to learn when to hold'em & when to fold him. The game needs to slow down for him. & he needs more time in the saddle.

But I don't think he is any more likely to be successful than Tj.

Maybe O'Brien doesn't bring in a vet. Maybe we start the season with Bridgewater/Bortles, Yates, & Keenum competing for the starting job. That wouldn't be so bad, would it? I doubt we win more than 6 games against the weakest schedule we've had in a while.... maye our weakest.

But whatever.
 
I believe keenum can lead this team to the promises land if he starts wearing ascots, Windsor knot and bow ties, calf skinnes Capri pants and jimmy choo shoes.

No I don't think keenum should be our starter because he was never able read blitzes and I have no reason to believe that'll change.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
The reason I list happy feet is the way he ran away from pressure and took big sacks. Not the same as Gabbert's issues necessarily but a real bug bear for me.
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I agree.
It wasn't any different from Lucky saying the same thing when he was in college.
He couldn't trust the O-line enough.

Now there was a guy that the Pats took a few years ago; it wasn't in the equation.

What you and I knew was thAt either Gabbert had good protection or his receivers bailed him out.

Obviously, he did well for a college QB.
It was never hating, just a fair evaluation to the next level.

To be absolutely honest, I would have never given Keemum a chance except for the amount of pressure he faced in college.

People think I went for the numbers
I never did.
 
I saw plenty of positives to be excited about. Clearly, though, he failed to take advantage of his opportunity in a way that would rally the team, coaching staff, and organization around him as the team's future. It was a very difficult situation. However, difficult situations are the ones containing unique opportunities. Nobody can say with certainty whether he could succeed as a starting NFL QB or not. His resume, after last year's opportunity, continues to indicate that it is unlikely and it would be unwise to build a team around that assumption.

I'm glad he's on the roster... Who knows what the future holds.
 
HOU-TEX said:
No

Odds are he'll be cut this offseason anyway.
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Hey Bro, I disagree with you. I think he has a career as, well, maybe a career as a backup (and I hate to say this, given these troubled times) ala Gary Kubiak behind Elway at Denver.
 
As others have said before, despite his feet being pretty happy, he usually had poor support........by the OL.....and the hot read receiver routes (virtually nonexistent)........and the play calling (including his inability to audible). Whether he gets his fair chance going through a full OTA and preseason to truly compete with any incoming QBs is another matter. If he get an honest chance with good coaching, I still believe that he can possibly make others believe.
 
Can he? Sure. Here? Depends entirely upon BO'B. We shall see. Keenum was always going to be a developmental QB. It just boils down to someone developing him. I don't have to stretch my imagination much to envision him being as successful as Alex Smith, for example.
 
Lord Bills said:
Does anybody still think he can be a successful NFL qb? Or did his play and inability to win a game for a 2-14 team enough evidence to know that that he is no good? Or do you think he still has a chance to be successful with a proper head coach and a proper team?

My personal opinion is that Keenum was placed in a bad situation with a lame duck coach, with a flawed offensive philosophy, and a bad team saddled with injuries on both sides of the ball.

I want to see what he can do with a full off season and a new coaching staff.
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I voted no.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Hey Bro, I disagree with you. I think he has a career as, well, maybe a career as a backup (and I hate to say this, given these troubled times) ala Gary Kubiak behind Elway at Denver.
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Possibly, but it'd be hard for a coach to get behind him given what's on film. What he learned (or was supposed to learn) in the meeting rooms never translated to the field. It's like the more he learned the worse he got as the season progressed. Maybe it was too much for him to gather? Dunno, but I wouldn't be willing to hand over the offense to a QB the doesn't read defenses. Starter goes down week 1 and he'll be the one we're stuck with? I'll respectfully pass
 
I believe in Case Keenum, not saying he'll ever be a great starter but I think he's adequate/good for a backup. Evaluating Keenum under the circumstances of last season is truly unfair. He became the starter under terrible conditions with very little/no prep time, an antiquated offensive system that the league figured out years ago, a head coach that was to stubborn or blind to change his system, a team that had quit on the coach, an O-line that was terrible, and a running game that was almost non-existent due to injury. No QB in the league would succeed under those circumstances. Hell even AJ was dropping balls that hit him in the hands.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I believe in Case Keenum, not saying he'll ever be a great starter but I think he's adequate/good for a backup. Evaluating Keenum under the circumstances of last season is truly unfair. He became the starter under terrible conditions with very little/no prep time, an antiquated offensive system that the league figured out years ago, a head coach that was to stubborn or blind to change his system, a team that had quit on the coach, an O-line that was terrible, and a running game that was almost non-existent due to injury. No QB in the league would succeed under those circumstances. Hell even AJ was dropping balls that hit him in the hands.
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Why is there always excuses being made? There's always something about the o-line or the d-line or the receivers or the tight ends or the blah blah dee blah. Brady came into his first game in the fourth quarter of his second season and never looked back. Good Qbs get the job done with what they have. Keenum couldn't get it done. With all those records in college you would think he could though. He's Kubiak's guy and I don't think O'Brien is going to have space for Kubiak's guys.

Great college QB, but I don't think being a starter in the pros is in his future.

Maybe I've become old and cynical, but I don't get the idea of clinging to a player just because they went to a certain school, or they're local, or they just need one more year. I like certain players, but in this day and age I have loyalty to what's best for the team, not an individual.
 
Word is Texans will draft QB Blake Bortles at 1.1. I think I like the idea.
 
Bortles? DO NOT WANT.

Give me Clowney. Bortles is definitely a second round QB.
I've watched that guy for a couple of years now-- both
in CUSA and in the AAC. Definitely not worth #1 overall..

I would take Manziel over that guy in a heartbeat. (and
I'm not sure Johnny will be a good pro..)
 
Txn_in_Oki said:
Why is there always excuses being made? There's always something about the o-line or the d-line or the receivers or the tight ends or the blah blah dee blah. Brady came into his first game in the fourth quarter of his second season and never looked back. Good Qbs get the job done with what they have. Keenum couldn't get it done. With all those records in college you would think he could though. He's Kubiak's guy and I don't think O'Brien is going to have space for Kubiak's guys.

Great college QB, but I don't think being a starter in the pros is in his future.

Maybe I've become old and cynical, but I don't get the idea of clinging to a player just because they went to a certain school, or they're local, or they just need one more year. I like certain players, but in this day and age I have loyalty to what's best for the team, not an individual.
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Good HC's get the job done with what they have...a good QB is worthless if the HC and his philosophy are ****.
 
EllisUnit said:
I would like to see what he can do with foster and OD in the line up, and a compitent staff who will let the boy play his style of football instead of trying to turn him into Schaub 2.0. And people can say what they want but before the coaching staff got in his head about staying in the pocket, he was leaving the pocket and making things happen down field. Defenses can adjust all they want but that isnt the reason he began struggling.

Yes i still have faith keenum could be an above average QB. If not here he will do it some where.
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Agreed. I think focus will be on new QB and Case will have to learn as he goes. 2014 last contract year. Odds against him but when have they not been?
 
Txn_in_Oki said:
So you think the blame with the coach? That Keenum can't pick up a blitz because of the coach?
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If he wasn't properly coached to pick up a blitz, then yes. Was Kubiak calling plays that we're designed to beat the blitz knowing that it was coming on every play? Given that we're talking about a HC, who didn't allow even Schaub to make adjustments on the line, it's not far fetched to assume that Keenum wasn't given that option either, meaning no blocking audibles.

HCs are very important to the development of players, it's not making excuses to say that a bad HC may have sabotaged the beginning of a young career with his incompetence.
 
burro said:
If he wasn't properly coached to pick up a blitz, then yes. Was Kubiak calling plays that we're designed to beat the blitz knowing that it was coming on every play? Given that we're talking about a HC, who didn't allow even Schaub to make adjustments on the line, it's not far fetched to assume that Keenum wasn't given that option either, meaning no blocking audibles.

HCs are very important to the development of players, it's not making excuses to say that a bad HC may have sabotaged the beginning of a young career with his incompetence.
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In his six years in college, did he ever see a blitz? Did he ever read a defense? Schaub sure did put up numbers in this offense.

When he was given a chance it was a great move. When he was benched because he was struggling it was a horrible move. But now it's the coaches fault for ruining his career?
 
PapaL said:
In his six years in college, did he ever see a blitz? Did he ever read a defense? Schaub sure did put up numbers in this offense.

When he was given a chance it was a great move. When he was benched because he was struggling it was a horrible move. But now it's the coaches fault for ruining his career?
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No QB can operate in a 2 second window. Our Oline play was atrocious this year and it's no coincidence that Schaub stopped putting up those big numbers after the great olines we used to have were gone.

I don't buy that benching Schaub and starting Keenum was entirely, if at all, Kubiak's decision. Kubiak was fired after he benched Keenum for the second time and McNair made it clear that Keenum was the starter moving forward. I highly doubt that a lame duck Kubiak was putting in a full shift for a QB he probably didn't want starting in the first place.
 
burro said:
No QB can operate in a 2 second window. Our Oline play was atrocious this year and it's no coincidence that Schaub stopped putting up those big numbers after the great olines we used to have were gone.

I don't buy that benching Schaub and starting Keenum was entirely, if at all, Kubiak's decision. Kubiak was fired after he benched Keenum for the second time and McNair made it clear that Keenum was the starter moving forward. I highly doubt that a lame duck Kubiak was putting in a full shift for a QB he probably didn't want starting in the first place.
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Remember when we had our first QB how terrible the OL was? How he would scramble himself into sacks and bad plays? The record setting OL we had? What happened the year after he left? We got a QB that played behind the same line, made reads, and got rid of the ball. All in the same offense. When your QB is doing ridiculous things it doesn't help the OL at all.

Again, I see lots of excuses, "Kubiak probably". At what point do you start looking at the QB as the problem? Hell even as PART of the problem.
 
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