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Old 01-06-2014   #21
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

I see a lot of people saying things like "Keenum proved he can't take you to the next level..." How can a QB have proved such mediocrity in his first 8 games as a starter?

1) He didn't have Owen Daniels, TEs are important for inexperienced QBs.
2) His run game support consisted of Ben Tate with broken ribs and PS guys.
3) The HC responsible for developing him was a lame-duck that didn't want him on the field in the first place and proved this by inexplicably sending Schaub back onto the field twice.
4) The Oline play was bad, to put it mildly

Considering the above, the Keenum experiment is inconclusive at worst. There's definitely a lot for him to work on, but if O'Brien is interested in working with him - there is nothing about Keenum's game that is irreparable.
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Old 01-06-2014   #22
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by burro View Post
I see a lot of people saying things like "Keenum proved he can't take you to the next level..." How can a QB have proved such mediocrity in his first 8 games as a starter?

1) He didn't have Owen Daniels, TEs are important for inexperienced QBs.
2) His run game support consisted of Ben Tate with broken ribs and PS guys.
3) The HC responsible for developing him was a lame-duck that didn't want him on the field in the first place and proved this by inexplicably sending Schaub back onto the field twice.
4) The Oline play was bad, to put it mildly

Considering the above, the Keenum experiment is inconclusive at worst. There's definitely a lot for him to work on, but if O'Brien is interested in working with him - there is nothing about Keenum's game that is irreparable.

There is nothing irreplaceable about Keenum. The kid never put the team on his back and carried them to victory. Make all the excuses you want, show me stats for other QBs who started in the league and it's still the same.
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Old 01-06-2014   #23
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

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Originally Posted by burro View Post
Considering the above, the Keenum experiment is inconclusive at worst. There's definitely a lot for him to work on, but if O'Brien is interested in working with him - there is nothing about Keenum's game that is irreparable.
I'll add that Kubiak didn't help him much by not calling a game conducive to what Keenum knows.

But this is the NFL, Not Fair League. If I'm a new HC I know I'm going to be judged on wins, both short & long term. Especially with the college mindset, you'd think he would want to find the best talent available & bring it in. Being a QB guru, I bet he wants to bring his own.

I would think he'll bring in a vet & draft a QB in the first round. Keenum becomes a third wheel. Whether Keenum can become someone who can get it done, is not the question. He just ran out of time.
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Old 01-06-2014   #24
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'll add that Kubiak didn't help him much by not calling a game conducive to what Keenum knows.

But this is the NFL, Not Fair League. If I'm a new HC I know I'm going to be judged on wins, both short & long term. Especially with the college mindset, you'd think he would want to find the best talent available & bring it in. Being a QB guru, I bet he wants to bring his own.

I would think he'll bring in a vet & draft a QB in the first round. Keenum becomes a third wheel. Whether Keenum can become someone who can get it done, is not the question. He just ran out of time.
I agree with all of this. The only point I was trying to make is that Keenum isn't a failure based on this season and with a fair shot could be starter in the NFL. Not with the Texans, but somewhere.
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Old 01-06-2014   #25
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Keenum was arguably the best QB on our roster last year, I don't think anyone can really dispute that (note the qualifier arguably). If he can beat out the veteran signed next season, I bet he starts over a drafted rookie.
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Old 01-06-2014   #26
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by thitch View Post
Keenum was arguably the best QB on our roster last year, I don't think anyone can really dispute that (note the qualifier arguably). If he can beat out the veteran signed next season, I bet he starts over a drafted rookie.
He probably played the best game/s of our QBs last year.

Overall, I think Schaub would of graded out higher in the end. Certainly seemed to move the ball more consistently (even if he still failed to score TDs).

QBR had Schaub 32, Keenum 35.

Rating Keenum 27, Schaub 33.
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Old 01-07-2014   #27
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Given the history of football in the city of Houston, Keenum
will be cut by Obrien, picked up by a team with a tradition of
winning and eventually propel them to a superbowl.

As a fan of Houston football, I'm accustomed to that type of
thing..
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Old 01-07-2014   #28
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by thitch View Post
Keenum was arguably the best QB on our roster last year, I don't think anyone can really dispute that (note the qualifier arguably). If he can beat out the veteran signed next season, I bet he starts over a drafted rookie.
I can argue against that.

For the first three games he was lights out. Teams got tape on him and he looked like an UDFA. I knew when Bob said he would start the rest of the season that we would not have another win. He proved completely inadequate against the blitz and his throws were nothing less than erratic.

In simple terms, he was absolutely awful. I'm not saying schaub is head and shoulders above him but when he was in there we consistently moved the ball and football was at least bearable to watch...even though we all knew we would lose.

Schaub needs to be cut. He has the Yips. He is damaged goods but there is no way keenum was better than him.
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Old 01-07-2014   #29
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by burro View Post
I see a lot of people saying things like "Keenum proved he can't take you to the next level..." How can a QB have proved such mediocrity in his first 8 games as a starter?

1) He didn't have Owen Daniels, TEs are important for inexperienced QBs.
2) His run game support consisted of Ben Tate with broken ribs and PS guys.
3) The HC responsible for developing him was a lame-duck that didn't want him on the field in the first place and proved this by inexplicably sending Schaub back onto the field twice.
4) The Oline play was bad, to put it mildly

Considering the above, the Keenum experiment is inconclusive at worst. There's definitely a lot for him to work on, but if O'Brien is interested in working with him - there is nothing about Keenum's game that is irreparable.

Maybe so but he did go 0-8 and at least 3-4 games he had the ball in his hands on the final drive to go ahead.

Maybe with some work he can swing it but I'm not sold on him being better than a rookie at this point.
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Old 01-07-2014   #30
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Keenum reminds me a lot of Grossman (Not in a bad way either). Kid lives to unleash the dragon and not much else unfortunately. He's like the vice president of the "_____ It I'm Going Deep" club.

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Old 01-07-2014   #31
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Given the history of football in the city of Houston, Keenum
will be cut by Obrien, picked up by a team with a tradition of
winning and eventually propel them to a superbowl.

As a fan of Houston football, I'm accustomed to that type of
thing..
Yep! That's just about the way things go around here.

Look, I don't know if Keenum got a "fair" shot or not and I don't think the blame for this team's failures can be put on one thing, like most on here seem to want it to be (coaching). The things that ruined this team the most were cutting/moving players over the last 2 years because of cap issues, injuries to key players (Cush, Manning, OD, etc), and an inability to replace those players through the draft or FA. If you think it was only the coaching ask yourself this; why did the same coaches win 2 divisional titles and have a 24 and 12 record the previous 2 years? What changed?

This team had been built to run the system that Kubes and Wade wanted. That team reached it's peak last season. The systems that each run are good systems with the right personnel in place, but they can't overcome the amount of players lost to the cap or injury that the Texans lost. Are some teams able to overcome these? They can if they have a "franchise QB." NE comes to mind with TB. Unfortunately for the Texans they didn't have one and they paid for it with a 2-14 record and a coaching change.

I don't know if Case will get another chance with O'Brien as the coach but I hope he does somewhere. I don't think the things people are saying he failed at can't be corrected. I just remember all the negativity around here for Kareem Jackson, Shilo Keo, and others when they were new to the League. Sometimes you just have to give players time to develop. JMO!
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Old 01-07-2014   #32
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

People often compare Drew Brees to Case Keenum.

They are like "Drew Brees is a great quarterback!" and "Case Keenum totally sucks!"
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Old 01-07-2014   #33
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

There is a reason why the kid was an UDFA and sat on the Texans practice squad for a year without 31 other teams showing even the slightest interest in him.

It happens every year. My son just graduated SFA on a football scholarship. They had a player up there that was a really great WR (Cordell Roberson), set all kinds of school records, and everyone was certain he'd be drafted. Not only did he go un-drafted, but the Browns checked him out and let him go, and I think he's barely hanging on the practice squad of the Bills right now.

The point being that great college players get overlooked and bypassed by the NFL every year. And it's not because the NFL is not interested, but rather they get to pick the cream of the crop, and many of these great college players are marginal in the pros.

Case is that type of player, as well. I wish him the best, but if you're pragmatic, you'd realize that he's been lucky to get the chances he's had so far.
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Old 01-07-2014   #34
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by thitch View Post
Keenum was arguably the best QB on our roster last year, I don't think anyone can really dispute that (note the qualifier arguably). If he can beat out the veteran signed next season, I bet he starts over a drafted rookie.
And? He was the best of the worst? Let's name a street after him while we're at it.
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Old 01-07-2014   #35
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

I think Keenum got "mental" towards the end. Wouldn't go so far as to say he's damaged goods or ruined, but he needs to regroup if he's going to stay in the NFL.

At first, he was slinging it. A 70% completion rate in his last two years of college and then looked decisive and accurate in the NFL preseason as well as his first couple of games of live action. And then his accuracy went to hell... At first I thought it was miscommunication between he and the receiver but came to realize he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and was slow getting the ball out. Teams having tape on him has nothing to do with missing a wide open receiver on a 10 yard pass. Sure, he still hit the occasional deep pass but those got more scarce. Keenum without his accuracy is man-on-the-street.

I *was* a fan but he's got to regroup if he wants to continue. It's up to him.....
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Old 01-07-2014   #36
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
There is a reason why the kid was an UDFA and sat on the Texans practice squad for a year without 31 other teams showing even the slightest interest in him.

It happens every year. My son just graduated SFA on a football scholarship. They had a player up there that was a really great WR (Cordell Roberson), set all kinds of school records, and everyone was certain he'd be drafted. Not only did he go un-drafted, but the Browns checked him out and let him go, and I think he's barely hanging on the practice squad of the Bills right now.

The point being that great college players get overlooked and bypassed by the NFL every year. And it's not because the NFL is not interested, but rather they get to pick the cream of the crop, and many of these great college players are marginal in the pros.

Case is that type of player, as well. I wish him the best, but if you're pragmatic, you'd realize that he's been lucky to get the chances he's had so far.
I'm not sure your point is valid all the time.
I'm sure you've heard of Kurt Warner.
He even got cut by the team that took him as an UDFA.
He then spent 4 years in the Arena League before given a chance to be a third stringer.

JFYI, Roberson got a call-up to the 53-man roster in Dec.

That doesn't necessarily mean either he or Keenum will ever start in the future.
It simply means that both need to show that they improve year over year to get a shot, and that is not a guarantee.
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Old 01-07-2014   #37
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Keenum got progressively worse the more he played. He either could not or would not read a defense to save his life. IMO, he's not even good enough to be in the NFL, much less a starter. Honestly, for anyone to even mention him as a starter is surprising given what we saw.
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Old 01-07-2014   #38
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

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Keenum got progressively worse the more he played. He either could not or would not read a defense to save his life. IMO, he's not even good enough to be in the NFL, much less a starter. Honestly, for anyone to even mention him as a starter is surprising given what we saw.
As usual, what people observe can be quite different.
And most people never declared that he will ever become a bona-fide starter, especially of late.
Some, like me, simply say that the grade is incomplete.
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Old 01-07-2014   #39
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

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I'm not sure your point is valid all the time.
I'm sure you've heard of Kurt Warner.
He even got cut by the team that took him as an UDFA.
He then spent 4 years in the Arena League before given a chance to be a third stringer.

JFYI, Roberson got a call-up to the 53-man roster in Dec.

That doesn't necessarily mean either he or Keenum will ever start in the future.
It simply means that both need to show that they improve year over year to get a shot, and that is not a guarantee.


While you can pull an example or two history would say that odds certainly arent in his favor. Keenum's best chance at becoming a legit starter in this league was to perform well in his 7-8 games and post a win or a few of them despite what was happening around him.
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Old 01-07-2014   #40
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Default Re: Brees, Foles and .... yes, Keenum

Reading some of the posts in this thread, you'd think that Texas was the one to legalize ganja on January 1.

I'm starting to wonder who is worse...the Keenum homers or the VY homers...and the VY homers have come out of the woodwork again, saying the Texans should sign him.

What world are these people living in?
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