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Old 01-06-2014   #61
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Nope

Too many holes, even with a last place schedule.
If we have a below average IR season and strengthen our weaknesses, SURE!
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Old 01-06-2014   #62
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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If we have a below average IR season and strengthen our weaknesses, SURE!
Agreed,

Except when do the Texans ever get lucky with the injury bug.

Hopefully BO'B will clean out the training staff too and be more patient with players coming back from injury. Newton/B.Williams/Posey etc..... Let them get fully healthy then let them play.

That's what the Seahawks have done with Okung/Harvin/Packers- Rodgers/49ers- Crabtree.
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Old 01-06-2014   #63
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

We dont even know who our staff is yet, let alone draft pics, cuts, signees, etc...
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Old 01-06-2014   #64
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

That is exactly my sentiment. To many questions, and our
approach to it is totally out of phase with teams like KC

Plus, I'm not sure the shock of a "hothead" for a coach
is going to work with this team after last year..

Might be the schiano thing all over again.. Or even worse,
the guy that just got canned from Detroit..

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
1. Why not clean house entirely and hire another GM?
2. Why hire a coach from the Belichick tree of failure?
3. What has O'Brien done as a coach... tell Tom Brady what to do and keep a college team from totally imploding?
4. We have no QB and the odds of us drafting a superstar franchise QB are pretty slim.
5. How much revamping does our O-Line need?
6. How much revamping does our front 7 on defense need?
7. Can we do 5 and 6 in one offseason?
8. How much longer can Arian and Andre perform at an all-pro level and are they already done?
9. Do we need to totally re-tool our secondary?
10. After so many years of drafting TEs, do we need to draft some more TEs?
11. If we get Crennel, should we be worried about his scheme and should we be worried that he's only had a top 10 defense when he was at New England?
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Old 01-06-2014   #65
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

Here is where I disagree with your entire premise (and all of the other
assumptions you make after it..)

#1) 7-5 and 8-4 and only 2 years at PSU is _not_ impressive to me.

Impressive college coaches are guys like Mahlzann who have
their team in the national championship twice in a handfull of years.

Or guys like Briles who took a perennial cellar dwellar like Baylor
to the Big 12 championship in a half dozen years.

Or Sumlin, who took the UH program to it's first bowl win
in 20 years, finished the season ranked inside the top 15 in forever,
and was 14 points from a BCS bowl.

Then he went to A&M and did essentially the same thing but
against the toughest competition in the SEC.

Both Briles and Sumlin defeated the #1 team in the country at
the time and then had their QB's win the heisman (which happend
in back to back years)

THOSE accomplishments (much like Chip Kelly's) are impressive to me..

#2) Obrien gets zero credit IMO for coaching Brady. As I've said before,
Brady would make anyone look competent. I am eager to see
what happens to all of the "Bellichik" genius once Brady retires..

We needed to make a hire unlike Dom and Gary, and my gut tells
me that we just paid for more of the same -- hopefully not for the
next 6 years.

I just can't get happy about this when we didn't even give a guy
like Wisenhunt an interview. Smith or Wisenhunt would have made
a ton more sense to me than the guy we ended up with.

At least I would feel more comfortable about a possible KC
turnaround next year. (the KC hire was a smart one, unlike ours..)

Right now, that looks like a total pipe dream..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
He does have HC experience. He has an impressive two years in college in a very difficult situation and several years experience as an OC in the NFL where he coached a guy who won two MVP awards at QB.
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Old 01-06-2014   #66
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I don't just believe it's possible. I expect it. Maybe with the kind of mentality that Gary brought for 8 years a 6-10 "recovery season" might be needed before we move up to an 8-8 pr 9-7 year but I don't think that kind of timetable is in play now.

Teams can turn around their fortunes in short order these days. the Texans should be no different. Now having said that lots of things can conspire to prevent success so an injury bug attack could derail that but the Texans are going to make their moves and they're going to take their best shot. I like their chances. I wish Indianapolis had lost yesterday because that team is building confidence which will stand in our way. It's definitely going to be an obstacle.

Keep in mind though that since they went 2-14 they've posted a pair of 11-5 seasons with a roster that many characterized as very underwhelming.... until it wasn't. They had huge turnover along the way and an MIA head coach who was fighting Leukemia.

Last year Kansas City was 2-14 and this year, 11-5. Saints were 3-13 in Haslett's last year. Bring in Sean Payton and Brees and you got success.

Teams turn themselves around in a season or two all the friggin time. Why not us? I'd say its because of Gary stumbling along learning to be a HC and never quite grasping some of the tougher parts of the job like firing friends who aren't getting the job done. Gary did great things for the Houston Texans. He also did a lot of damage to the Houston Texans. It's hard to reconcile both of those things but there it is.
+1. The Texans are not void of talent contrary to popular belief. Due to Schaub wetting the bed, we are now lacking at the most important position on our football team which also made us look like trash.

On defense, we have a talented secondary with corners who have performed well in the past. A young up and coming safety, a stud middle linebacker, a stud DL in Watt, and a couple of nice pieces in Mays, Manning, Reed and Merc. Some Dline help and another pass rush OLB and we are back in business.

On offense we obviously need to fill the void at QB via draft or free agency. We have 4 good WR's coming back, IMO a stud center and left tackle, a really good RG, and who knows how Brennan Williams is going to perform. Daniels coming back (maybe) , Foster coming back, which leaves holes at FB, backup RB and TE.

O'Brien is going to want his QB and TE, and Crennel is going to want his pass rusher and NT.

I am not interested in the bare minimum. I want to see more pieces of flare.
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Old 01-06-2014   #67
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Here is where I disagree with your entire premise (and all of the other
assumptions you make after it..)

#1) 7-5 and 8-4 and only 2 years at PSU is _not_ impressive to me.

Impressive college coaches are guys like Mahlzann who have
their team in the national championship twice in a handfull of years.

Or guys like Briles who took a perennial cellar dwellar like Baylor
to the Big 12 championship in a half dozen years.

Or Sumlin, who took the UH program to it's first bowl win
in 20 years, finished the season ranked inside the top 15 in forever,
and was 14 points from a BCS bowl.

Then he went to A&M and did essentially the same thing but
against the toughest competition in the SEC.

Both Briles and Sumlin defeated the #1 team in the country at
the time and then had their QB's win the heisman (which happend
in back to back years)

THOSE accomplishments (much like Chip Kelly's) are impressive to me..

#2) Obrien gets zero credit IMO for coaching Brady. As I've said before,
Brady would make anyone look competent. I am eager to see
what happens to all of the "Bellichik" genius once Brady retires..

We needed to make a hire unlike Dom and Gary, and my gut tells
me that we just paid for more of the same -- hopefully not for the
next 6 years.

I just can't get happy about this when we didn't even give a guy
like Wisenhunt an interview. Smith or Wisenhunt would have made
a ton more sense to me than the guy we ended up with.

At least I would feel more comfortable about a possible KC
turnaround next year. (the KC hire was a smart one, unlike ours..)

Right now, that looks like a total pipe dream..

FYI, just for clarity sake... Sumlin won w Briles recruit Keenum, and Sumlin had a losing record at UH when Keenum went down. Not to mention Sumlin walked again into another coaches QB recruit in Manziel along w a stud Oline and WR.

More importantly, which of those college coaches you mentioned walked into a sanctioned mess like O'Brien did?
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Old 01-06-2014   #68
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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I feel better about the leaders on our team than I did about the KC Chiefs.

My only concern... the only reason I think we may not win, is if Arian's back is a bigger problem than I think it should be. He was looking good just before he wasn't. & that was running behind Newton/Harris. We can win a lot of games with a healthy Arian Foster.

For whatever reason, guys who shouldn't make plays all the time for the other team & that's why they win. We've got a lot of players who should, but don't make plays that would help us win games.
A great deal hangs on the condition of Arian Foster's back. I'm very worried about what the outcome of that is going to be. I've got a bad back and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I can't even imagine the kind of contact that an NFL running back goes through so I'm hoping that his back problem is nothing at all like mine.

Arian's also a pretty smart guy and he's not going to be interested in being crippled in his 40's. He's been paid and he's going to do what's best for Arian. I am not holding that against him and wouldn't expect him to do anything else. I just think we may never see the #23 we're all familiar with again.
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Old 01-06-2014   #69
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
We dont even know who our staff is yet, let alone draft pics, cuts, signees, etc...
This sums it up for me too. We've got tons of moves to make before I can make heads or tails of this team.
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Old 01-06-2014   #70
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?
Two points:

1. If Rick Smith is still here then the answer is no

2. If we are somehow able to turn over more than 90% of the roster then it's possible we at least make the playoffs. Otherwise, 6-10 is best case scenario.
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Old 01-06-2014   #71
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

Too early to really predict much about the 2014, especially without a clue of who wil be QB.

But, my attitude is to hope for the best, but prepare for a rebuild.

Be careful about unrealistic expectations. They tend to sour to nonobjective demands.
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Old 01-06-2014   #72
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Be careful about unrealistic expectations. They tend to sour to nonobjective demands.
Ain't that the dang truth! Kudos! You should remind everyone of that come August in all of those W-L prediction threads.

That statement that McNair made when said he 'expects to win immediately' is probably the stupidest thing he's done yet. He's going to eat those words, but O'Brian will eat the flak.

And I agree with Herv about Foster. He's not going to be the player that he was, but he's gonna get paid like he is. Cushing is in the same boat.

We have no earthly idea who the QB is going to be. Some high-priced rookie, or some vet that's no more than a backup for any other team. There are issues with the trench, who some here think is going to be miraculously solved with lower round draft picks, and a running attack? ..... uh, what running attack? More draft picks?

I think some here get the meaning of the word "expectations" confused. When you say "it's not only possible, I expect it", what exactly do you mean? Does it mean you just want it to happen and then get frustrated or angry if it doesn't, or do you actually 'think' it will happen?
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Old 01-06-2014   #73
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Ain't that the dang truth! Kudos! You should remind everyone of that come August in all of those W-L prediction threads.

That statement that McNair made when said he 'expects to win immediately' is probably the stupidest thing he's done yet. He's going to eat those words, but O'Brian will eat the flak.

And I agree with Herv about Foster. He's not going to be the player that he was, but he's gonna get paid like he is. Cushing is in the same boat.

We have no earthly idea who the QB is going to be. Some high-priced rookie, or some vet that's no more than a backup for any other team. There are issues with the trench, who some here think is going to be miraculously solved with lower round draft picks, and a running attack? ..... uh, what running attack? More draft picks?

I think some here get the meaning of the word "expectations" confused. When you say "it's not only possible, I expect it", what exactly do you mean? Does it mean you just want it to happen and then get frustrated or angry if it doesn't, or do you actually 'think' it will happen?
Well obviously we all "want it to happen" right? Who here doesn't want the Texans to bounce back into the win column, take a step forward and head for the playoffs?

Everybody wants that.

When I say I expect it I mean that this is exactly what I think is going to happen. I think it will happen because I don't think we're as bereft of talent as many of us believe. I think that most teams in the NFL are capable of putting up a season that's "around" .500 in any given season. It's just the way the NFL is designed.

When Kubiak took over Capers 2-14 abomination he had less to work with across the board, agreed in advance to march into 2006 with David Carr as his starting QB, had Richard Smith as his DC, Wali Lundy as his starting RB, and did I mention that he'd never been a HC anywhere before? He still won 4 more games than Capers did with exciting free agent acquisitions like Anthony Weaver, Sage Rosenfels, and Ron Dayne to add to the mix.

He had to face Peyton Manning TWICE that year! Hell he lost 4 games by less than a TD to boot. Those four games go the other way and we're looking at Gary delivering our first 10-6 season.

If Gary had the slightest idea what a defensive coordinator looked like back then the entire history of the team would be different. He'd probably still be working here warts and all.

I put out the "injuries mean nothing is guaranteed" point but yeah, I believe that Bill O'Brien's Texans can come right back and compete for the division. I expect them to do so. I really think they will.

This Texans team is light-years ahead of where that one was.
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Old 01-06-2014   #74
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Ain't that the dang truth! Kudos! You should remind everyone of that come August in all of those W-L prediction threads.

That statement that McNair made when said he 'expects to win immediately' is probably the stupidest thing he's done yet. He's going to eat those words, but O'Brian will eat the flak.

And I agree with Herv about Foster. He's not going to be the player that he was, but he's gonna get paid like he is. Cushing is in the same boat.

We have no earthly idea who the QB is going to be. Some high-priced rookie, or some vet that's no more than a backup for any other team. There are issues with the trench, who some here think is going to be miraculously solved with lower round draft picks, and a running attack? ..... uh, what running attack? More draft picks?

I think some here get the meaning of the word "expectations" confused. When you say "it's not only possible, I expect it", what exactly do you mean? Does it mean you just want it to happen and then get frustrated or angry if it doesn't, or do you actually 'think' it will happen?
I'm all aboard the O'Brien train. But, I'm mentally preparing myself for a 2 year turnaround. Maybe 3.

I know folks want instant gratification, but I refuse to succumb to the prevailing mentality of our culture.

Just getting a new QB can cause a delayed success. Add in completely new systems on both sides of the ball under a brand new staff, along with some big holes to fill on both sides of the line, and my attitude is to be patient about it.

I'm not saying a quick turnaround is not possible, because just about anything is possible. But, my attitude is based on what's probable, and being a fan of NFL history, the trend clearly leans toward rebuild more than it does first-year-coach-in-playoffs, regardless of the hopeful rhetoric spewed by our dear owner.
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Old 01-06-2014   #75
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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I'm all aboard the O'Brien train. But, I'm mentally preparing myself for a 2 year turnaround. Maybe 3.

I know folks want instant gratification, but I refuse to succumb to the prevailing mentality of our culture.

Just getting a new QB can cause a delayed success. Add in completely new systems on both sides of the ball under a brand new staff, along with some big holes to fill on both sides of the line, and my attitude is to be patient about it.

I'm not saying a quick turnaround is not possible, because just about anything is possible. But, my attitude is based on what's probable, and being a fan of NFL history, the trend clearly leans toward rebuild more than it does first-year-coach-in-playoffs, regardless of the hopeful rhetoric spewed by our dear owner.
And I think that's not only a reasonable, but practical way to approach it. For our "dear owner" to not see it that way, not only blows my mind, he's setting up O'Brian for failure. What was it you said? "Be careful of unrealistic expectations ....." It just leads to unjustified and misdirected criticism.

He's gonna end up wishing he stayed at Penn State.
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Old 01-06-2014   #76
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

NFL teams are relatively close to each other in terms of talent and coaching. Any of the myriad of 4-12 teams this year could've had a few bounces of the ball go the wrong way and could easily be this years Texans, or last years Chiefs or whatever. Yes, all of these teams are bad, and you do see a lot of the same teams at the bottom year after year, but what seperates a 3-13 from a 4-12 or a 2-14 is minute it's almost luck as to who gets to draft first every year, even from dedicated tank jobs like the Colts "Suck for Luck" campaign.

And yes, those teams have experienced gigantic turnarounds in one season before, it happens almost every year, and you don't even have to nail your draft to do it (Eric Fisher has sucked pretty badly for being a #1 overall pick and all of the guys who are playing at a high level on their defense were picks of the previous regime). The Texans ability to turn back into a playoff team next year is there and they have enough talent on the roster to do so. What they lack on the roster can easily be made up by good coaching if O'Brien is in fact a good coach.

There are perfectly fine reasons for optimism next season unless you hate the O'Brien hire, and if you hate the hire this soon then it will be impossible to find ways that the franchise can turn around.
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Old 01-06-2014   #77
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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Originally Posted by IlliniJen View Post
I think we're two solid drafts away from being a double-digit winning team. There is not as much talent on this team as people think, and our depth is truly lacking...look who we had starting in the DB corps at the end of the year and tell me we have good depth.

I don't think we're only a 6 win team next year, but 9-7 is possible given the weak sauce schedule we face. As a unit, I'm most concerned about the defense. Obviously, we can't put all the defensive struggles on losing Cushing...that's what talent and depth help you cope with, and we don't have a ton on that side of the ball.
Much of our depth was on IR this season. We're not as far away as some think.
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Old 01-06-2014   #78
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

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And I think that's not only a reasonable, but practical way to approach it. For our "dear owner" to not see it that way, not only blows my mind, he's setting up O'Brian for failure. What was it you said? "Be careful of unrealistic expectations ....." It just leads to unjustified and misdirected criticism.

He's gonna end up wishing he stayed at Penn State.
yep, I agree. I think McNair's mouth might have written a check that he may not be able to cash.

I just hope Texans fans can be pragmatic if 2014 turns out to be less than miraculous. The Chiefs turnaround is an exception, not the rule. Most 2-14 teams with a first overall pick, no QB, brand new head coach and staff, do not go to the playoffs the next year.

oh yeah, just to clarify, "dear owner" is a term of endearment on my part, not derision in any way. I might not always agree with his way of doing business, but I do like the guy and believe he truly wants to win a championship.
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Old 01-06-2014   #79
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

Sarcasm aside, I expect a decent turn around. I'm not expecting a trip to the Super Bowl, but I do expect some changes to be made. We have a good core of players and I just think what was more of an attitude adjustment than anything else. Sometimes you just have to give people a good shake to wake them up.
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Old 01-06-2014   #80
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Default Re: Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

If we were going to do a complete rebuild, I'd expect nothing next year and be happy with whatever progress was made. But what we're being told is this isn't a rebuild. And frankly, I'm calling bull$hit on that. It may not be a complete rebuild, but it's a rebuild with a new coaching staff, new playbook, new QB, and some new players.

My feeling right now, knowing nothing of the future, is that if we can at least sniff the playoffs next year going 8-8 I'll be good with it. But hell, we've still got free agent season, the draft, and the completion of the coaching staff to be done.

We don't even have a clue yet as to who the OC is going to be.
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