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Old 03-07-2014   #141
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Trade down for Watkins, Moseley or Mack. Instant playmakers, no time needed to develop.

I'm done with the soap opera QB class of 2014.
You flipped sides? Once you leave you can't come back, you know that right? Like Charlie in "All Dogs Go To Heaven".
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Old 03-07-2014   #142
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

I think they should take Bridgewater. But if they decided to go with Clowney I would be good with that.

If they want Bortles, Manziel, or anyone else I think you try to trade down a few spots if possible.
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Old 03-07-2014   #143
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Did we post what Skip said yet?
Someone should point out that these quotes are from January 2nd, immediately following theChik-Fil-A Bowl game where Manziel threw for 388 yds, 4 TDs and ran for another 73 yds and a TD on 11 carries against Duke. I chalk this up to post bowl game euphoria from the talking heads.
...plus it's Skip Bayless... he had (has?) a mancrush on Tebow too.
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Old 03-07-2014   #144
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

I've pretty much gotten to the point where if they don't take Clowney, Robinson, or trade down for good value (which I know is far easier said than done), I'm gonna be disappointed. In otherwords, it's basically anything but a QB with that #1 pick. No real preference out of those three options
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Old 03-07-2014   #145
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

Put me down as another who is beginning to rethink 1-1. I'm still going defense, but rather than Mack, who I still like, I'm beginning to consider Clowney.

But rather than projecting him to right side DE, or the Elephant, I'd project him to the strong side OLB, right beside JJ.

How's an offense going to block this pair? It would force the offense to keep the TE in to block one-on-one with Clowney, removing him as a receiving threat, and leaving the RT one-on-one with JJ. If the RG was to slide over to help out, I'd have Cushing shoot the wide open gap to blitz the QB.

This leaves our NT one-on-one with the OC.

My 2-33 selection is still Tuitt. He's currently projected at bottom of the first or top of the second. He can play DE on the weak side, but moving him to NT puts him one-on-one against the OC, a far more favorable matchup. He'll anchor the middle against the run and generate up-the-middle pressure on the QB.

This leaves Mercilus at the Elephant, one-on-one against the blindside LT, a not so favorable matchup as he's shown the past two years.

This requires us to address the right side DE in the mid-rounds with a player who can dominate one-on-one against the LG. I haven't found this prospect just yet.

But for the NT position, I'm still liking Ryan Carrethers, who will probably be available at 5-129. So if Carrethers can win the NT position and can dominate the OC, this allows me to move Tuitt back to the right side DE, where I've had him all along. With Tuitt outside, this may help free up Mercilus to make more plays on the QB. As you see, we have a lot of flexibility where we play Tuitt.

At 3-65 I still have Smallwood penciled in to play next to Cushing. He's good at dropping back into pass coverage, but more importantly, he'll be excellent at shooting the gaps on the right side to blitz the QB.

So my defensive heavy draft, without any trades, is beginning to round into shape. With what I have so far, I still have pick 4-97. This selection could be for a QB. I'm anticipating the Texans signing a FA QB, maybe as soon as next week.

(edit) I forgot, 4-97 is for JaWuan James, RT, who's currently projected to go 3rd/4th round. That leaves #5 supplemental for a QB. The one I've currently got an eye on is Keith Wenning from Ball State. But he might be available as deep as the 7th round, or possibly an UFA.

Last edited by Number19; 03-07-2014 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 03-07-2014   #146
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I've pretty much gotten to the point where if they don't take Clowney, Robinson, or trade down for good value (which I know is far easier said than done), I'm gonna be disappointed. In otherwords, it's basically anything but a QB with that #1 pick. No real preference out of those three options
Understandable. But getting your hopes up for 1 or 2 players is a mistake. If we take someone else you will eventually watch their film and say "well maybe I can get behind this pick." Happens every year.
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Old 03-07-2014   #147
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe
Quote:
With just about every forced QB pick in the last 6 years, someone has gotten fired. Sanchez, Tebow, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon...

When you force a QB pick you are risking your career

This year I'm saying none of the QB's is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's a mistake if they go that high

Also wrote in the NFP that Ponder and Locker were not 1st round QB's

At this time 2 years ago I was getting killed by people cause I said Gabbert was awful. I think I was right.

In McShay's new mock he has 3 QB's going in the top 4 picks. Not going to happen! There isn't a franchise QB in this class. Good not great!
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Old 03-07-2014   #148
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
Understandable. But getting your hopes up for 1 or 2 players is a mistake. If we take someone else you will eventually watch their film and say "well maybe I can get behind this pick." Happens every year.
I'm a big boy - if I get disappointed, I get disappointed, and I'll deal with it.

It's not like someone else can swoop in right before our pick, and take the guy I wanted us to pick. Saying I shouldn't want a particular player or two is essentially telling me I'm not allowed to form an opinion on who I like best, and that's simply ridiculous.

And yes, if they choose a QB at 1-1 (or anyone else), I'll get behind the pick soon enough - doesn't mean I can't go for a short while (as in a few days) not liking it.
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Old 03-07-2014   #149
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe
Could not agree more with this cat's assessment. I usually don't dig on people patting their own back, but what this guy said is spot on.

At this point, I'm almost willing to trade back for darn near anything that might be offered (reasonably speaking). If not, I'd be satisfied with picking Clowney, Watkins, Mathews, Robinson or Mack. I never knee-jerk with our picks, but I'd be kinda disappointed if we chose a QB with 1.1
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Old 03-07-2014   #150
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I've pretty much gotten to the point where if they don't take Clowney, Robinson, or trade down for good value (which I know is far easier said than done), I'm gonna be disappointed. In otherwords, it's basically anything but a QB with that #1 pick. No real preference out of those three options
I really don't care. I mean I know what I would do & it would be sweet if the Texans did what I want them to do... but I know they won't.

I'll be disappointed if we're not talking through play off scenarios in December. I don't mean that we should control our own destiny, but like the Steelers sitting there hoping they can get in with an 8-8 record.

We need an outside pass rusher, we need a QB, we need help on the OL, we need a safety & then some. I don't care how the Texans do it, but they need to find a way to field a competitive team in a weak AFC with a weak schedule. Draft, Free agency, trade, I don't care. Just get it done.
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Old 03-07-2014   #151
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe
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With just about every forced QB pick in the last 6 years, someone has gotten fired. Sanchez, Tebow, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon...

When you force a QB pick you are risking your career

This year I'm saying none of the QB's is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's a mistake if they go that high

Also wrote in the NFP that Ponder and Locker were not 1st round QB's

At this time 2 years ago I was getting killed by people cause I said Gabbert was awful. I think I was right.

In McShay's new mock he has 3 QB's going in the top 4 picks. Not going to happen! There isn't a franchise QB in this class. Good not great!
I was wrong on McNabb. I didn't see having anywhere near the career he was going to have. I think he was as successful as he was, because he was drafted by Andy Reid (& he was lucky to have Jim Johnson).

But if they go to the right "system" I can see Bridgewater & Bortles (& McCarron, & Murray) having McNabb type success.... or Rivers.

& with the rules & the way coaches are letting these guys play Garopolo, Manziel, even Boyd can have short term success.

That's why I don't want to take one with the 1st overall pick. Not because I don't think they can be "franchise" QBs, but because I don't think they're the type that will be successful where ever they go, like Peyton, or Rivers, or Palmer.

I don't think these guys (even Manziel) will bust like Gabbert, Ponder, or Tebow.
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Old 03-07-2014   #152
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

All you cats are switching sides. I'm taking notes. When the pick comes in and you all try to claim you wanted it or were behind it the whole time I'm gonna call you on your Tom Foolery.

You can listen to these jokers change their minds from week to week and sway in the wind with them, but I won't be there.

In another message board I was on an Alshon Jeffery island while people berated me, then when he dominates they acted like they were there the whole time. Denied... you switch sides and it's over.

When the season was over there were 3 franchise QBs. Today there are none. What changed? The QB I wanted the whole time is still rated inside most everyone's top 10 big board yet now he is getting compared to Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts. What is going on here?

Did you know according to most big boards in 2011 that Gabbert was ranked ahead of Cam? How's Cam working out? Maybe people blew it on Gabbert in 2011, maybe sometimes players don't work out. It doesn't mean the next time a good player comes out he's going to suck. You can compare to Gabbert, I will compare to Rodgers, just don't forgot what side of the line you were on when it's over.
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Old 03-07-2014   #153
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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All you cats are switching sides. I'm taking notes. When the pick comes in and you all try to claim you wanted it or were behind it the whole time I'm gonna call you on your Tom Foolery.

You can listen to these jokers change their minds from week to week and sway in the wind with them, but I won't be there.

In another message board I was on an Alshon Jeffery island while people berated me, then when he dominates they acted like they were there the whole time. Denied... you switch sides and it's over.

When the season was over there were 3 franchise QBs. Today there are none. What changed? The QB I wanted the whole time is still rated inside most everyone's top 10 big board yet now he is getting compared to Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts. What is going on here?

Did you know according to most big boards in 2011 that Gabbert was ranked ahead of Cam? How's Cam working out? Maybe people blew it on Gabbert in 2011, maybe sometimes players don't work out. It doesn't mean the next time a good player comes out he's going to suck. You can compare to Gabbert, I will compare to Rodgers, just don't forgot what side of the line you were on when it's over.
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Old 03-07-2014   #154
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

Greg Gabriel's twitter

Quote:
With just about every forced QB pick in the last 6 years, someone has gotten fired. Sanchez, Tebow, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon...

When you force a QB pick you are risking your career

This year I'm saying none of the QB's is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's a mistake if they go that high

Also wrote in the NFP that Ponder and Locker were not 1st round QB's

At this time 2 years ago I was getting killed by people cause I said Gabbert was awful. I think I was right.
OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.
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Old 03-07-2014   #155
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Greg Gabriel's twitter


OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.
evolution. compare surrounding players with those here, now & same disparity exists if not more. different years, different players this one is exceptional for OT, DE/OLB & WR that is strength of this class, so you play into it not against it!
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Old 03-08-2014   #156
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.
To answer your question: these QBs might compare in numbers to Luck, Newton and Griffin, but they are always lacking something. Bridgewater doing everything well - but he doesn`t have the prototypical height, elite strength and played against poor teams. Bortles has the prototypical frame, but he needs to improve his mechanics and accuracy. Manziel is a great runner and a decent passer - but he is a lot smaller than Newton and could be just as injury prone as Griffin as a pro.

The QBs that failed, Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, all had question marks surrounding them. Mostly it was about their ability to get the mental aspects (reads, decisions, understanding coverages) right within the speed of an NFL play - and it was about their accuracy and their ability to react to pressure. I do believe, that these are the biggest hurdles in the transition, because they can get away with it and look great in college, but they get exposed in the NFL.

When looking at this years draft class, I´d say Bridgewater is the least likely to fail, simply because he excells in the things I´ve just stated. But when scouts look at him, they don`t see elite potential. He is not big and strong enough. When you look at Bortles, scouts see elite potential - but around him are similar question marks as there were around Gabbert, Locker and Ponder. Some QBs overcome these questions marks, most don`t. Manziel is probably the hardest to evaluate. He has all the talents in the world - but with his play style he should be injury prone, and it will be interesting to see, how he will react to NFL speed.

So Luck was a no brainer because he had everything - basically no question marks. Griffins main question mark was his ability to play within the pocket and stay healthy (similar to Manziel - though Griffin seems to be the better "guy"), but he was also looked at as a can´t miss project. Newton had question marks surrounding his throwing ability, but his elite combination of size, speed, arm and leadership was too intriguing.
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Old 03-08-2014   #157
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.
I don't know if that's what he's saying. Saying "the three" aren't top ten picks isn't the same as saying they're going to bust like Gabbert. He's just saying he was right about Gabbert, so he's most likely right about "the three"

So what's the difference between a first round QB... Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco... & Peyton, Rivers, Aikman, Luck? To me a top 5 pick is a franchise player. A first rounder outside the top 5 is a starter (Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Stafford, Cutler).

Guys like Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees may very well be elite, but at the time they were drafted that seemed unlikely. Something happened between then & now that helped them become who they are.
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Old 03-10-2014   #158
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

Alshon Jeffrey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ZxqA4yA3w

Andre Ware: http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-medi...4-c602bd30b9c1
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Old 03-10-2014   #159
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Greg Gabriel's twitter


OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.
We spend all this time discussing attributes of the various players and specifically qb's , but I think half the guys that will be busts would be succesfull given the right opportunity. Put Carr with an average oline and kubiak day 1 and I think his career is significantly different. It really boils down to " in BOB we trust."

What I don't like is:

We have a lg and rt we have to upgrade.

We have a rg we expect to get better - but no guarantees

We have a run game based on Foster who is arguably injury prone at this point and definitely older. How much production does he have left in the tank , and how important is a run game to a young qb?

We have a coach who some people laud as good at grooming qb's when in fact he had brady and remains unproven in that capacity.

BOB has no offensive coordinator so how much of his time will be dedicated to everything excluding his new qb?

These are all just elements in the moving puzzle for a qb's success , but they're things I don't see helping any qb no matter his skill set.

It's quite likely we can draft the right qb and still not have success due to the rest of the outside elements. Picking the wrong qb doesn't necessarily mean failure. Picking the wrong coach likely does and that part of the puzzle is already in place.

In OB we trust.
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Old 03-11-2014   #160
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Default Re: What should the Texans do with their number one pick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by powda View Post
We spend all this time discussing attributes of the various players and specifically qb's , but I think half the guys that will be busts would be succesfull given the right opportunity. Put Carr with an average oline and kubiak day 1 and I think his career is significantly different. It really boils down to " in BOB we trust."

What I don't like is:

We have a lg and rt we have to upgrade.

We have a rg we expect to get better - but no guarantees

We have a run game based on Foster who is arguably injury prone at this point and definitely older. How much production does he have left in the tank , and how important is a run game to a young qb?

We have a coach who some people laud as good at grooming qb's when in fact he had brady and remains unproven in that capacity.

BOB has no offensive coordinator so how much of his time will be dedicated to everything excluding his new qb?

These are all just elements in the moving puzzle for a qb's success , but they're things I don't see helping any qb no matter his skill set.

It's quite likely we can draft the right qb and still not have success due to the rest of the outside elements. Picking the wrong qb doesn't necessarily mean failure. Picking the wrong coach likely does and that part of the puzzle is already in place.

In OB we trust.
In regards to foster, something no one seems to be concerned about, how focused is he going to be? I would seriously see what we could get for him in trade if I were the gm.
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