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Old 01-16-2014   #501
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
Are you saying that's a CBA stipulation? These pay cuts happen all the time - Doug Free took one last year from the Cowboys. I just never knew that it had to be tied to an extension.
No you do not have to do an extension and he doesn't have to be cut.

Quote:
According to multiple sources, Houston Texans wide receiver Kevin Walter took a pay cut to remain with the Texans for the 2012 season. Walter was set to make $3.5 million in base salary with a $4.5 million salary cap number, but has agreed to reduce his salary to $2 million for the upcoming season with his remaining two years of his contract staying the same for the 2013-2014 seasons.
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Santonio Holmes is willing to accept a pay cut for the second year to remain with the New York Jets.

"Anything for the team," Holmes said Wednesday, via the New York Daily News. "Anything for the team."

Asked if it would matter how much his salary was reduced, Holmes replied, "Probably not. I mean with the production comes big pay, so do your job."

That seems to be an acknowledgment that Holmes has underperformed since signing a five-year, $45 million contract four years ago.
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Old 01-16-2014   #502
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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No you do not have to do an extension and he doesn't have to be cut.



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Thanks, that's what I thought. MSR.
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Old 01-17-2014   #503
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
First, let me say that I'm warming to the idea of taking a QB with the #1 overall pick. However, I just happen to be lurking in the fan forums of other NFL teams. I happened into GangGreen.com, expecting to see a few generic draft threads. I was totally surprised to see a well developed thread discussing this year's crop of QBs. Why was I surprised?

Because they've already got 2 first round QBs on their roster. I know they're "just fans" & their opinions have little to do with the decisions made by the franchise, but more or less, they're like us. There are a few guys there who know what they're talking about. & just lilke here, the gist of the problems are more or less close enough.

But they're regretting the selection of either 1st round QB.

That's the situation I don't want to be in. Yes, we need a QB. Yes, we need a QB of the future. But there is a very good possibility that, that QB is not in this draft. Just last year, the Jets took the best QB in the draft, & he wasn't the guy (at least many of their fans question that he is).

At the same time, it is interesting most of them acknowledge if Bridgewater, or Clowney were available at their pick, 18th, they wouldn't pass up either.


Edit:Daniel Jeremiah said
First of all I'd like to point out that my ability to analize football is the same of a dead racoon, so what I'm saying down here is just the result of what I observed and read about 1 year ago waiting for the draft


geno is actually a 2nd round QB if I recall correctly.
also he was the 2nd QB drafted in '13 (after E.J. Manuel)

there was a lot of doubts going around Geno, nobody was really sure about him

This is from a simple google search limited from 1/1/13 to 20/4/13


Source1
Source2
Source3

Source4
Source5


As you can see there were 2 types of issues with geno
1- character issues
2- on-the-field + lack-of-awareness-instincts

Now it's too early to say, but I feel like the general opinions about
TB/JM/BB
are much better than the opinions of geno 1 year ago.

I don't really know why, but I would rather we got a QB in the first round intead of a DE

but then again:
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my ability to analize football is the same of a dead racoon
so... I'll just wait and hope what we'll do will be the right thing
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Old 01-17-2014   #504
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
Are you saying that's a CBA stipulation? These pay cuts happen all the time - Doug Free took one last year from the Cowboys. I just never knew that it had to be tied to an extension.
While I'm sure there are occasional exceptions, usually the union allows reductions in seasonal pay only when they are offset in increased guaranteed money or extension into future years with at least equal guaranteed money. It is more obvious in baseball, but also followed in football. All of these contracts are governed by both the contract itself and Master Agreements between unions and the leagues which establish parameters for player contracts and processes for exceptions or exemptions.
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Old 01-17-2014   #505
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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No you do not have to do an extension and he doesn't have to be cut.



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Look at the guaranteed money.
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Old 01-17-2014   #506
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Look at the guaranteed money.
The guaranteed money was in the form of a signing bonus and was already paid. The reductions were in the base salaries. There were no extensions added. Why don't you just admit that you're wrong and allow this thread to get back on topic?
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Old 01-17-2014   #507
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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The guaranteed money was in the form of a signing bonus and was already paid. The reductions were in the base salaries. There were no extensions added. Why don't you just admit that you're wrong and allow this thread to get back on topic?
Why? You just made my point. No guaranteed money to no guaranteed money. Base is irrelevant when it is not guaranteed.
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Old 01-17-2014   #508
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Why? You just made my point. No guaranteed money to no guaranteed money. Base is irrelevant when it is not guaranteed.
We're talking about the cap here. The point, I believe, is that we can reduce Schaub's cap number by asking him to take less salary in 2014. His salary is the biggest part of his 2014 cap number, $10M (the remainder comes in the form of pro rated ($3.5M) & roster bonus ($1M).

If we ask Schaub to take a $4M pay cut, it would be the equivalent (cap wise) to cutting him & taking the $10M cap hit in 2014... we wouldn't have to cut him, then re-sign him.

He'll also be under contract & due $12M for 2015 & $14M for 2016. $3.5M in prorated bonus going towards his cap number each year ($17M in 2015, $19M in 2016). A bone if you will. A reason why Schaub would actually take that deal. If he's cut, then he'll have to find another team that would pay him $6M in 2014, then $12M in 2015 & $14M in 2016. If he plays outstandingly, there's a chance the Texans will pay him that money. He would be betting on himself, unless he thinks another team would dish out those kinds of salaries. However, he might leave if he thinks another team would pay him a $10M signing bonus.

So if we cut his pay in 2014, then cut him in 2015, we'll still gain $10M toward cap. The kicker, imo, if we cut him & absorb the dead money in 2014, that will free up $17M toward the cap in 2015 & $19M in 2016.
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Old 01-17-2014   #509
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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I actually can see a scenario where we keep Schaub next season if we decide to go with Jadaveon Clowney at 1:1. If Schaub returns to his pre-13 self we have a good shot at playoffs already. If not, we're back selecting top 10 again which isn't all bad. In this scenario I'd hope there was a QB they think highly enough to sit behind Schaub and learn the off field professional aspect of being a pro. As bad as Matt was last year, he could be a good mentor. Cap hit is awful high and I think this scenario is unlikely.

My favorite continues to be Teddy Bridgewater at 1:1 and as our starter. He is professional in his demeanor, he's smart, he loves football, he's highly motivated, and would represent the franchise very well. All this leads me to believe O'Brien, Smith and McNair take him to be our franchise guy.
Hopefully your scenario doesn't play out this way.

I don't get the representing the franchise thingy. It's not my franchise, it's BoB's franchise. So any player is not representing me or my city. All I care about is can said player help win championships.

I do know that I set the bar higher than most when it comes to winning. But that the reason they keep score and it's entertainment. I hate losing and don't care what it takes to put a winner on the field. If fans held BoB to this standard we the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS wouldn't be forced to endure seasons like last season or decades like last decade.
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Old 01-17-2014   #510
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We're talking about the cap here. The point, I believe, is that we can reduce Schaub's cap number by asking him to take less salary in 2014. His salary is the biggest part of his 2014 cap number, $10M (the remainder comes in the form of pro rated ($3.5M) & roster bonus ($1M).

If we ask Schaub to take a $4M pay cut, it would be the equivalent (cap wise) to cutting him & taking the $10M cap hit in 2014... we wouldn't have to cut him, then re-sign him.

He'll also be under contract & due $12M for 2015 & $14M for 2016. $3.5M in prorated bonus going towards his cap number each year ($17M in 2015, $19M in 2016). A bone if you will. A reason why Schaub would actually take that deal. If he's cut, then he'll have to find another team that would pay him $6M in 2014, then $12M in 2015 & $14M in 2016. If he plays outstandingly, there's a chance the Texans will pay him that money. He would be betting on himself, unless he thinks another team would dish out those kinds of salaries. However, he might leave if he thinks another team would pay him a $10M signing bonus.

So if we cut his pay in 2014, then cut him in 2015, we'll still gain $10M toward cap. The kicker, imo, if we cut him & absorb the dead money in 2014, that will free up $17M toward the cap in 2015 & $19M in 2016.
You're confusing Cap Savings with Cap Hit. The Cap Savings is the total compensation for a year minus the amount of dead money left on the entire remaining contract. In Shaub's case There is $10M remaining in dead money for the rest of his contract and $14M due for 2014. But even if his base is reduced this year, his dead money remains, Cutting him eliminates all the dead money from this contract after 2014 hit with $4M left from what he would have counted against the Cap. If you're only worried about THIS YEAR'S cap, then you could get more room with a salary reduction, but it just pushes off the Dead Money and it's problems to future years.

I admit my focus is on freeing up cap space for 2015 for Watt. Pushing off Schuab's dead money till next year when we need the cap space the most does not appeal to me. Which is why Cutting him and then resigning him is a better plan if you want to retain him.
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Old 01-17-2014   #511
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Just to clarify that cutting Schaub will only clear up $4MM in cap space (unless he's a post June 1 cut) due to the dead money his contract carries. It's certainly better than having to take a $14.5MM hit if he stays. If OB wants Schaub to stay and compete for a starting job, then maybe he could be persuaded to take a pay cut. His base in 2014 is $10MM, and if they can negotiate it down to $5-6, it would provide the same cap relief as releasing him.
He can't do that unless he extends his contract. But we can cut him and then resign him.
What paycheck71 said is true. No extension is required. Cutting Matt Schaub is not required.


Matt Schaub has a $17M cap number in 2015. Cutting him & taking the hit in 2014 will free up $17M, making him a June 1st cut frees up $10M in 2015.

That $7M will most likely have no effect on signing Jj Watt long term. We'll be $25M under the cap making Schaub a June 1st cut. There are still other things we can do to free up more money.

In Paycheck's scenario, Schaub takes a paycut for 2014, & we cut Schaub as a June 1st cut going into the 2015 season, We'll free up $14M for 2015, opposed to $17M.
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Old 01-17-2014   #512
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We're talking about the cap here. The point, I believe, is that we can reduce Schaub's cap number by asking him to take less salary in 2014. His salary is the biggest part of his 2014 cap number, $10M (the remainder comes in the form of pro rated ($3.5M) & roster bonus ($1M).

If we ask Schaub to take a $4M pay cut, it would be the equivalent (cap wise) to cutting him & taking the $10M cap hit in 2014... we wouldn't have to cut him, then re-sign him.

He'll also be under contract & due $12M for 2015 & $14M for 2016. $3.5M in prorated bonus going towards his cap number each year ($17M in 2015, $19M in 2016). A bone if you will. A reason why Schaub would actually take that deal. If he's cut, then he'll have to find another team that would pay him $6M in 2014, then $12M in 2015 & $14M in 2016. If he plays outstandingly, there's a chance the Texans will pay him that money. He would be betting on himself, unless he thinks another team would dish out those kinds of salaries. However, he might leave if he thinks another team would pay him a $10M signing bonus.

So if we cut his pay in 2014, then cut him in 2015, we'll still gain $10M toward cap. The kicker, imo, if we cut him & absorb the dead money in 2014, that will free up $17M toward the cap in 2015 & $19M in 2016.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. The Texans have options with Schaub if they want to keep him to see if he can be fixed or fit a new system better, or whatever.
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Old 01-17-2014   #513
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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This is exactly the point I was trying to make. The Texans have options with Schaub if they want to keep him to see if he can be fixed or fit a new system better, or whatever.
You're going to hear people say he's broke. That it's a physical issue, due to his foot. However, I believe Schaub was much more athletic this past year than we've seen in quite some time. His foot never came up in any of the discussions about what was wrong with this team. He never appeared to favor his foot, or require any extra attention because of it.

The fact is that though we know he had a Lisfranc injury, we don't know how severe it was & from what I've seen, it doesn't look like it was very severe at all.

That said.... he's broke. He has no confidence & it was that confidence that caused him to telegraph his throws & throw the ball late instead of anticipating the receiver's break. Those aren't the kind of things I would expect a QB with his history & at his age to fix.

Then again, looks like Carson Palmer is back.
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Old 01-17-2014   #514
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

It is obvious that Schaub had no significant residual negative performance effects specifically related to his Lisfranc ligament fracture injury.

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Old 01-17-2014   #515
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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It is obvious that Schaub had no significant residual negative performance effects specifically related to his Lisfranc ligament fracture injury.
We were warned .... and didn't heed the warning.
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Old 01-17-2014   #516
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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It is obvious that Schaub had no significant residual negative performance effects specifically related to his Lisfranc ligament fracture injury.

I wonder what they are doing down there??????
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Old 01-17-2014   #517
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I wonder what they are doing down there??????

That's what she said?
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Old 01-17-2014   #518
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

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I wonder what they are doing down there??????
If it's in west Texas, they are probably fracking. If they are in China, they are trying to breathe. Other than that, I would guess they are politicians.
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Old 01-17-2014   #519
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

I can't see Schaub being back based on how McNair and smith have commented on the situation. Seems to me they've already decided to move on.

I think Schaub could handle the different offense and the extra responsibilities he'd have as a qb with obrien. But I don't think he'll get the chance and I don't think he should. Don't trust him at all.
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Old 01-17-2014   #520
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?!

Matt schaub lol
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