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Old 12-26-2013   #121
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

FWIW....folks in Atlanta are convinced that Dimitroff will pull off another Julio Jones type trade to move up to get Jadevon Clowney.
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Old 12-26-2013   #122
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I dont have a grudge against Bridgewater. Why is it when I say I dont think Bridgewater will be anything more than a little above avg NFL QB, Just like Manziel who I agree with alot of your analysis I have a grudge against Bridgewater.

I just dont think there's a franchise QB in this draft. Mettenberger/Bortles have the best chance to become franchise QB's. IMHO This doesn't mean I'm right, but I certainly think you can come up with something better than I hold a grudge.

We just disagree on Bridgewater in particular and reaching for a franchise QB in general. I'm a fix the trenches this yr guy and wait until next yr when the 4th best QB will be better than any QB in this draft. IMHO

I'm willing to wait a yr and you want instant gratification. I get that, it's human nature. Some say but we wont have the top pick next yr. I say you can trade up to the 7-10 range because I have the Texans picking in the 12-18 range in the 2015 draft without having to give up an arm and a leg. They could even trade down this yr say to Cleveland at #5 a 2014 3rd and a 2015 1st and have the ammunition to move up in 2015.

They could still draft a great player at 5. The difference is that YOU think Bridgewater is worthy of #1 and I dont. But I do enjoy the back and forth discussion. Just to be clear I dont hold a grudge against Bridgewater. BTW, Winston is my #1 rated QB in the 2015 draft so that angle is invalid.
Perhaps I was too strong in my criticism. You are usually a very level headed poster. You just seem to have a particularly strong opinion on Bridgewater, which I suppose surprises me. Maybe your opinion just stands out to me because most people seem to be on board with him. Just caught off guard that you're so defiantly against him. I also don't think I've seen you post what it is you don't like about him. In any case, I didn't mean to offend you.

I'm not one for instant gratification. I want the best thing for the long term. I'm even on record saying that I don't think we need to come out of this draft with a QB. I just think that if our new staff sees one they like they should take him. It's the most important position and they don't grow on trees.

And we certainly agree on Winston.
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Old 12-27-2013   #123
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I've watched just about every youtube video on this guy in the last 3 weeks. It's hard not to get excited about him. He's a fast twitch guy, with a very good burst. He understands & excels at making a beeline to the ball carrier once he gets a glimpse of where the ball is.
Doesn't matter. Let him be good for someone else if he's gonna be good.

I don't want anyone who takes plays off or has a high potential to do something REALLY dumb to hurt the team or his career.
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Old 12-27-2013   #124
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Perhaps I was too strong in my criticism. You are usually a very level headed poster. You just seem to have a particularly strong opinion on Bridgewater, which I suppose surprises me. Maybe your opinion just stands out to me because most people seem to be on board with him. Just caught off guard that you're so defiantly against him. I also don't think I've seen you post what it is you don't like about him. In any case, I didn't mean to offend you.

I'm not one for instant gratification. I want the best thing for the long term. I'm even on record saying that I don't think we need to come out of this draft with a QB. I just think that if our new staff sees one they like they should take him. It's the most important position and they don't grow on trees.

And we certainly agree on Winston.
What I dont like about him is I think his talent level is on par with Andy Dalton. Bridgewater will be a good, not great QB. Certainly he's not worthy of 1-1 and if Rick picks him, that pick will reek of desparation.
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Old 12-27-2013   #125
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
FWIW....folks in Atlanta are convinced that Dimitroff will pull off another Julio Jones type trade to move up to get Jadevon Clowney.
Man I hope ATL makes a move like that. A trade like that would allow the Texans to fill in most of the holes this yr and set the team up for the 2015 drafting of Winston/Petty.
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Old 12-27-2013   #126
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Man I hope ATL makes a move like that. A trade like that would allow the Texans to fill in most of the holes this yr and set the team up for the 2015 drafting of Winston/Petty.
What team has ever filled all their holes in one year?
You can put name to a roster spot but that doesn't mean squat; ref our QB situation.
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Old 12-27-2013   #127
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
FWIW....folks in Atlanta are convinced that Dimitroff will pull off another Julio Jones type trade to move up to get Jadevon Clowney.
Source?
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Old 12-27-2013   #128
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
While I want Teddy 1.1, if you are going to go Clowney at least have a plan to get a top QB like you do.
This is the heart of the matter. Most people do not think this years QB are elite. There are many second level QBs which are nearly interchangeable and the fifth or sixth one chosen is almost as likely to be the star as the top picks.

You don't use 1-1 on second level prospects if you can get elite level trade offers and still get good at 2-1.

I'd like to point out that DEPTH is the reason this QB class is considered strong. There are only 5 teams with QB at the top of their needs list and far more good QB prospects than this.

A current QB list is:

1. Bridgewater
2. Carr
3. Manziel
4. Bortles
5. McCarron
6. Mettenberger
7. Fales
8. Smith
9. Garoppolo
10. Boyd
11. Murray
12. Miller
13. Morris

There are no shortage of good prospects and which will prove to be best is unknown.

Without a doubt there will be three or four better QB prospects next year, but I hope we won't be picking anywhere near the point they will be on the board.
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Old 12-27-2013   #129
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I agree that Clowney is really showing his lack of maturity here. Dude is on pace to be a top 3 pick and he decides that speeding (and getting caught) on multiple occasions is a good idea? He is no longer on my short list. I like football players with maturity, smarts, and accountability. Not sure that Clowney has any of those.
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Old 12-27-2013   #130
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I also don't think I've seen you post what it is you don't like about him.
That is my feeling as well. I am not seeing alot of reasoning as to why poster x y or z doesnt like Teddy B. Just that they dont like him.

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
You don't use 1-1 on second level prospects if you can get elite level trade offers and still get good at 2-1.
Sound logic, but moot until you find out if any QB's are "first level" prospects. In addition to discovering any available trade offers.

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I'd like to point out that DEPTH is the reason this QB class is considered strong. There are only 5 teams with QB at the top of their needs list and far more good QB prospects than this.
Still, I believe every year 1 or 2 QBs rise to the top as the cream of the crop. I want the cream of the crop as a potential franchise QB. Not a nice prospect like several on your list.
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Old 12-27-2013   #131
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
I agree that Clowney is really showing his lack of maturity here. Dude is on pace to be a top 3 pick and he decides that speeding (and getting caught) on multiple occasions is a good idea? He is no longer on my short list. I like football players with maturity, smarts, and accountability. Not sure that Clowney has any of those.
If Atlanta is really hot for Clowney and might leapfrog St Louis for his services, then this might drive St Louis to swap places with Houston and make my dream of picking up their other #1 more likely. Then we could still trade with Cleveland for their 1s so they can get Bridgewater and still be in a position for elite talent at several positions including QB.

1-5, 1-15 and 1-24. Perhaps getting either Manzeil, Matthews or Barr along with the extra first round picks.
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Old 12-27-2013   #132
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
If Atlanta is really hot for Clowney and might leapfrog St Louis for his services, then this might drive St Louis to swap places with Houston and make my dream of picking up their other #1 more likely. Then we could still trade with Cleveland for their 1s so they can get Bridgewater and still be in a position for elite talent at several positions including QB.

1-5, 1-15 and 1-24. Perhaps getting either Manzeil, Matthews or Barr along with the extra first round picks.
If Rick Smith is able to pull that series of trades off AND get players who are productive, then he's a lot better at this than I suspect he is.
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Old 12-27-2013   #133
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Source?
I don't know if there is a source for general Fan sentiment. A friend of mind called to say that the general fan sentiment is for Dimitroff to trade up for Clowney. If you find this unacceptable I guess you could read the Falcon blogs, read the Falcon message boards and listen to Atlanta Sports Talk radio to find out if my friend was lying, exaggerating just a bit or was telling me what he perceived to be the fans popular opinion.

Last edited by Texian; 12-27-2013 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 12-27-2013   #134
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I don't know if there is a source for general Fan sentiment. A friend of mind called to say that the general fan sentiment is for Dimitroff to trade up for Clowney. If you find this unacceptable I guess you could read the Falcon blogs, read the Falcon message boards and listen to Atlanta Sports Talk radio to find out if my friend was lying, exaggerating just a bit or was telling me what he perceived to be the fans popular opinion.
You mean like the bleacher report that you scoff at?
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Old 12-27-2013   #135
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

FWIW, this afternoon on SR610 Daniel Jeremiah compared Teddy B., in terms of quality coming into the draft, to Matt Ryan and "a more polished" Ryan Tannehill.
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Old 12-27-2013   #136
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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FWIW, this afternoon on SR610 Daniel Jeremiah compared Teddy B., in terms of quality coming into the draft, to Matt Ryan and "a more polished" Ryan Tannehill.
Who is Daniel Jeremiah?
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Old 12-27-2013   #137
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post
FWIW, this afternoon on SR610 Daniel Jeremiah compared Teddy B., in terms of quality coming into the draft, to Matt Ryan and "a more polished" Ryan Tannehill.
I heard that, not sure what to make out of it other than Jeremiah was ill prepared cause normally like his work. Look Teddy is a rhythm QB & if there is one thing Matt Ryan is not, is a rhythm QB. What I mean by that is Ryan is very mechanical in his movements, like his QB coach is in his head reminding him to keep his elbow high & tucked in, look off dbs, keep feet moving & hold finish. Teddy just lets it rip, fluid & without hesitation.

Lets not confuse athletic ability with reading coverage's ala Cam Newton when he came out, so what if it took him a couple years to develop into a complete NFL QB, point is now that he has he may now be considered among the elite in the game, don't we want someone similar? so If I were going to make a comparison between Teddy Bridgewater & somebody else, knowing no two prospects are ever exactly the same, it would be Cam Newton not Matt Ryan.

ps: not shooting the messenger, just DJ for a surprising miss on a layup
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Old 12-27-2013   #138
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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I heard that, not sure what to make out of it other than Jeremiah was ill prepared cause normally like his work. Look Teddy is a rhythm QB & if there is one thing Matt Ryan is not, is a rhythm QB. What I mean by that is Ryan is very mechanical in his movements, like his QB coach is in his head reminding him to keep his elbow high & tucked in, look off dbs, keep feet moving & hold finish. Teddy just lets it rip, fluid & without hesitation.

Lets not confuse athletic ability with reading coverage's ala Cam Newton when he came out, so what if it took him a couple years to develop into a complete NFL QB, point is now that he has he may now be considered among the elite in the game, don't we want someone similar? so If I were going to make a comparison between Teddy Bridgewater & somebody else, knowing no two prospects are ever exactly the same, it would be Cam Newton not Matt Ryan.

ps: not shooting the messenger, just DJ for a surprising miss on a layup
I think maybe you misunderstood the question. He was asked for a comparison in terms of quality, not in style, physical attributes or mental acuity.
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Old 12-27-2013   #139
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Who is Daniel Jeremiah?
Daniel Jeremiah is a former scout for three different NFL teams. Most recently, he was the West Coast scout for the Philadelphia Eagles from 2010 to 2012. He previously worked as a national scout with the Cleveland Browns (2007-08) and a West Coast scout for the Baltimore Ravens (2005-06), after initially joining the team as a personnel assistant from 2003 to 2004. Jeremiah graduated in 2000 from Appalachian State, where he started at quarterback for three seasons.
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Old 12-27-2013   #140
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Who is Daniel Jeremiah?
Jeremiah is @movethesticks on twitter and a talking hairdo at NFLN. He is also a former NFL scout. It should be noted that Jeremiah had 3 different scouting jobs with 3 different teams in 6 years. On a personal note if I saw that on resume it would go straight to the trash can. Just like spelling errors on a resume.

Last edited by Texian; 12-27-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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