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Old 12-25-2013   #81
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You've gotta pay regardless.

Somehow teams like the 49ers/Lions /Bears/Packers/Bengals/Ravens/Vikings back in the day seem to be able to keep their talented DLs together and still pay top notch $$$$ to their QB's.

This is part of the problem Rick has, not being able to effectively manage the cap.

If you want to look for excuses to draft Bridgewater over Clowney/Barr etc... you're going to have to look harder than this.
I think if you think there is a can't miss franchise player there you have to take him. This year there is not a sure fire franchise qb there so you take a franchise player at another position.
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Old 12-25-2013   #82
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Agreed

But forcing a pick on a QB that isn't a franchise QB because you need one has proven to set this franchise back for over a decade. (Carr) There is no QB worthy of #1 in this draft. IMHO
1. Why does it have to be "forcing" instead of common sense. We have no answer at QB and no money. We have a great DE already.

2. What the what? How do you know who's a franchise QB and who's not?

3. How is someone who's performance dropped and has injury history a lock at #1? Are we going by measurements now like Mario?
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Old 12-25-2013   #83
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
If our drafted QB is in an actual competition with Yates or Keenum then we are screwed.

Both of those guys are worthless.
For sure. 1st rounder or quit.
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Old 12-25-2013   #84
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Texans will draft a QB with their first pick. They have a chance to get a franchise caliber QB and even if he doesn't work out they have to take that risk. There's no other serious option in my mind.
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Old 12-25-2013   #85
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
It's obvious I think. This team has no starting QB. There's a reason why QBs are so prized. They are the leaders on a team, and we desperately need one.
So what are you saying? Hope Jay Cutler hit the market? Take a look at Josh Freeman? or hope that we can get Mettenberger later in the draft, perhaps trade up?

One option is to take Bridgewater first overall. I think we've discussed that one already. I want to know what option two is.
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Old 12-25-2013   #86
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Let's say Clowney is as good as advertised and Watt earns his big contract. What I want to know is how can you afford to keep two top DE? That time is going to come. That's big, big money tied to the same position. Are the Texans going to "rent" Clowney during his rookie contract while hoping we win a SB with a later round QB pick? Last time I checked points win you games. You only need a defense to hold your opponent just enough to win.
I look at it the same as the Ben Tate/Case Keenum situation. When the time comes & we have to make that decision, we make it then, not now. Arian Foster's deal would have hurt, had Tate proved to be too valuable. But if it made sense to endure the pain for a year or two, then trade Arian... then that's what we do.

Now we're in a situation where it doesn't make sense to keep either Schaub or pay Keenum.

We can have Clowney & Watt on the cheap for the next two years. Pay Watt if his play continues to warrant it & we still got Clowney on the cheap for two more years.

None of us know what our situation with Watt will be 2 years from now. Banking on him being the 20 sack per year franchise player we want him to be is like waiting for Boscelli to suit up, Tate to stay healthy, Schaub to become clutch, or Sharpton/McCain to blossom. & those decisions are a big part of what's holding us back as an organization.

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Here's a thought. Maybe if the Texans actually had a competent QB to make drives last instead of 3 and outs, our defense wouldn't be so bad getting a breather here and there.
I'm with you there. However, I want to know what our alternatives are..... how do we address the QB position if we decide to go Clowney with the first pick. Can we find a competent QB in the second? Do we trade back in the first? Do we get one in FA, or through trade?
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Old 12-25-2013   #87
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I'm still hoping for a trade back, then a trade up for Boyd
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Old 12-25-2013   #88
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
I'm still hoping for a trade back, then a trade up for Boyd
For this thread, we're saying the Texans take Clowney with the first overall.

That being the case, what should the next move be?

Trade back into the first for Boyd?


We'll find an RT between Ryan Harris (2 years after surgery), Newton (3rd times a charm), Brennan Williams (finally healthy, fingers crossed)? LG from Ben Jones, or the Q.

If we go to a 3-4, I think Clowney would be an OLB. If we go to the 4-3, with Reed & Mercilus providing depth..... That would be a heck of a rotation.

We'll have to look at young solid safeties in FA.
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Old 12-25-2013   #89
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Default Re: Fixing the OLine: Draft, FA, In-House

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
We aren't going to draft a right tackle in the top 5 over a franchise QB or blue-chip pass rusher.
If the Texan front office doesn't avail itself of this rare opportunity to draft a top QB, they continue to be crazy. Why not Derek Carr? Don't condemn him because of his brother.

Jeffcoat, not Clowney, is the top DE, and UT grads seem to do well in the NFL. But QB must be the top priority, followed by OL.
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Old 12-25-2013   #90
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Default Re: Fixing the OLine: Draft, FA, In-House

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If the Texan front office doesn't avail itself of this rare opportunity to draft a top QB, they continue to be crazy. Why not Derek Carr? Don't condemn him because of his brother.
Derek Carr shouldn't be scratched out of hand but he should have to undergo an interrogation which would make the CIA weenies at Gitmo blush before the Texans think about taking him.
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Old 12-25-2013   #91
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Default Re: Fixing the OLine: Draft, FA, In-House

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Derek Carr shouldn't be scratched out of hand but he should have to undergo an interrogation which would make the CIA weenies at Gitmo blush before the Texans think about taking him.
I have an idea how that'll shake out.

The fact that Derek already has a wife and a child is an indicator IMO that he has the same values as his brother. Good for every guy in the world, bad for a starting QB for an NFL franchise.
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Old 12-25-2013   #92
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
1. Why does it have to be "forcing" instead of common sense. We have no answer at QB and no money. We have a great DE already.

2. What the what? How do you know who's a franchise QB and who's not?

3. How is someone who's performance dropped and has injury history a lock at #1? Are we going by measurements now like Mario?
1.Because if you pick a QB not worthy of #1 that by definition is forcing a pick.

2. I dont know for sure, nobody does, I've watched 5-7 of TB's games over the last 2 yrs icluding the Floria bowl game and in MY opinion TB will be an Andy Dalton type QB in the NFL. Who do YOU think TB will resemble as a pro?

3. Because Clowney has played at a top level competition, drawing double teams since coming out as a much hearlded freshman. MW played on a DL at NCST with 3 1st rd draft picks. Clowney? MW was known for taking plays off his entire career.

Clowney never took plays off his 1st two yrs in college. Only after almost being garunteed to be a top 5 pick this yr before the season started and seeing his teamate (Lattimore) fall from a 1st rd pick to a 6th rd pick, Clowney decided to protect himself from injury this yr. That's human nature and I dont hold this against Clowney.

Actually Clowney and MW are nothing alike at comparable points in their career. But even if they were, I wouldn't consider picking another MW at 1-1 in this draft to be a bad pick. (But that's just me and I know that wont be a popular opinion among most posters.) Clowney has the ability to be much better than MW will ever be and has done this with bone spurs on his feet.
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Old 12-25-2013   #93
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
For this thread, we're saying the Texans take Clowney with the first overall.

That being the case, what should the next move be?

Trade back into the first for Boyd?


We'll find an RT between Ryan Harris (2 years after surgery), Newton (3rd times a charm), Brennan Williams (finally healthy, fingers crossed)? LG from Ben Jones, or the Q.

If we go to a 3-4, I think Clowney would be an OLB. If we go to the 4-3, with Reed & Mercilus providing depth..... That would be a heck of a rotation.

We'll have to look at young solid safeties in FA.
Ok. Although I think we're a franchise QB short of being contenders, I'll play by your rules. The first thing I would do after selecting Clowney 1st overall is try to trade back into the first round (mid teens) for Blake Bortles. If he's not available there then I would try to trade into the twenties for either Derek Carr or Zach Mettenberger.
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Old 12-25-2013   #94
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Ok. Although I think we're a franchise QB short of being contenders, I'll play by your rules. The first thing I would do after selecting Clowney 1st overall is try to trade back into the first round (mid teens) for Blake Bortles. If he's not available there then I would try to trade into the twenties for either Derek Carr or Zach Mettenberger.
^^^^
This

Only if they decide not to draft a QB in 2015.

Personally, I would hope that Cutler is a FA and the Texans sign him to a 3yr deal and trade up in the 2015 draft for Winston/Petty. That would give the rookies a couple of yrs to sit on the bench and learn, while Cutler/Clowney would give the Texans a better chance to win a SB than Schaub ever did. Didn't Cutler lead the Bears to a NFC Championship game 3-4 yrs ago? People severely underrate Cutler because they dont like his supposed attitude. When all Cutler does is call out slugs like Webb and answer reporters questions like, would you rather have a taller WR than Hester honestly?
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Old 12-25-2013   #95
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

LOL Cutler? Seriously? The guy who has played all 16 games 3 times in 8 seasons? The guy who threw 18 INTs in his best NFL season? His career average for a season is 19 TDs-14 INTs...

At least he's a known commodity I guess. He's Romo without the toughness. But he does have a strong arm so there's that.

We're gonna go all in (it wouldn't be cheap) with a guy who's had eight years to prove his worth and hasn't, but it's not worth the risk if we do our homework and decide that we've found a QB in the first round that we like?
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Old 12-25-2013   #96
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Breaking it down by key positions I'll list some players I would consider pursuing (in no particular order):

Quarterback

1.) Josh McCown (Bears) - Only if the price is right I would consider bringing him in. Yes he had a plethora of weapons but so do we. If anything it will allow Bridgewater or whomever else we take to study the playbook and get accustomed to the NFL before taking over (a la Aaron Rogers).

Offensive Line

1.) Alex Mack (Browns) - I doubt they let him walk but if we change offensive schemes and we want to avoid having a center get B^tch#d slapped by a nose tackle then I want Mack.

2.) Jared Veldheer (Raiders) - Not the cream of the crop but better than what we have at RT and worth a look.

Linebackers

1.) Brandon Spikes (Patriots) - Serviceable ILB and would give us much needed depth.

2.) Karlos Dansby (Cardinals) - Getting up there in age but has played very well for the Cards and can provide leadership.

Cornerbacks

1.) Breant Grimes (Phins') - Solid CB who can hold his own against the best.

2.) Chris Harris (Broncos) - Solid CB...not to be confused with the other Chris Harris.

3.) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Broncos) - Has been banged up but he's probably the best out of the CBs scheduled to hit FA.

Safeties

1.) TJ Ward (Browns) - Top 5 Safety IMO.

2.) Jarius Byrd (Bills) - Had a ridiculous Rookie season and is still a force to be reckoned with.


Basically I'd like to see us get aggressive in FA and pickup the best that money can get. We also need to focus on key positions of need in the draft and continue to add more depth.

If we take Clowney (and assuming we switch to a 4-3 or run a hybrid defense). I would like to see if we can get Ra'Shede Hageman if he slips out of the 1st round. He fits a 4-3 and a 3-4 and would give us some flexibility at the DL position.

Trevor Reilly is a solid option at OLB. Played in a weaker conference but Utah's been known to produce solid 3-4 OLB. What really excites me about him is his coverage skills versus TEs which is something we need.

For the RT position I like James Hurst. Played well against Clowney and although he plays the LT spot he could switch to cover the RT spot for us.

I'm still getting used to coming back to reality from my post-surgery (wisdom teeth) so I'll leave it at this.
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Old 12-25-2013   #97
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

good work across the board, rep & Merry Christmas
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Old 12-25-2013   #98
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

if we go Clownley rd 1 then rd 2 I would go......

yeah I would deff go QB no question



OT I just think don't we got two young guys waiting in the wing Quesnberry and that other guy that's why I think MAybe RT isn't much has a need when compared to Guard CUz Wade smith will be gone this off season and hes a starter unless yall really like Ben jones and guard or a depth player I don't know about Cuz Brooks is on the RG
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Old 12-25-2013   #99
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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LOL Cutler? Seriously? The guy who has played all 16 games 3 times in 8 seasons? The guy who threw 18 INTs in his best NFL season? His career average for a season is 19 TDs-14 INTs...

At least he's a known commodity I guess. He's Romo without the toughness. But he does have a strong arm so there's that.

We're gonna go all in (it wouldn't be cheap) with a guy who's had eight years to prove his worth and hasn't, but it's not worth the risk if we do our homework and decide that we've found a QB in the first round that we like?
Using Cutler as a high end placeholder until the young QB's are ready in 2-3 yrs ala Rodgers is a bad idea?

Rushing a rookie QB, be it your dream guy Bridgewater, my guy Mettenberger or Manziel/Bortles seems like a dumb idea. (Carr)

BTW, As I've said, I dont like any of the QB's in this draft. But the ones most likely to succeed are, Mettenberger/Bortles/Bridgewater in that order.

Tell me the difference between Bridgewater and Manziel minus the 2 inches of height. Both are mobile with avg arms. Both improvise alot?
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Old 12-25-2013   #100
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

1.) Clowney

2.) Kirk Cousins - Trade our 2nd rnd pick (33) for Cousins. The Nick Foles ship has sailed, but I've been saying that Foles & Cousins are practically the same guy. He needs to get the hell out of the Shanahan/Kubiak offense to thrive, even though he's still doing an adequate job. The Texans join the golden QB class of 2012 (at last), but if by some chance Cousins fails, at least you've put a small investment in a somewhat proven commodity, as opposed to a straight up rookie. It might take an extra pick somewhere along the line to get him, as long as the pick isn't too steep.

Otherwise...You got to take your shot for Bortles, Carr or Boyd. I'm thinking from Bridgewater on down there's equal value across the board...if you want to play craps, that is.

Besides, if we really fail with Cousins we'll be at the top of the heap to draft a franchise guy in 2015. Win/win...and you'll only be picking up Cousin's 4th round tab.
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