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Old 01-11-2014   #381
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Given that everyone and their dog expects 2-3 QBs to be taken in the top 5 and 3-4 in the top 10, taking any of them isn't a reach to me.
I can't argue with that logic & wonder why it's taken so long for someone to express it.

However, to admit it as the primary reason to draft whoever, we'll have to admit that said QB is not "worth" the 1-1. Personally, I think it's that honesty that would help the Texans properly develop "said QB"
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Old 01-11-2014   #382
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Given that everyone and their dog expects 2-3 QBs to be taken in the top 5 and 3-4 in the top 10, taking any of them isn't a reach to me.
Well , given the bust potential of all three .... any of them could be a reach. The driving force here is the demand for the position.
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Old 01-11-2014   #383
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
No way Cleveland gives up that much for the first overall. I think expecting their 4 and the Colts pick is reasonable, but adding in their #68 an their 2015 1st rounder is expecting way too much in my opinion. Although I do like your first three picks, Manziel-Amaro-Murhpy
That pick is worth more now than ever before with the rookie scale contracts. That's actually less than what Washington gave up to move up to #2.
Washington gave up 3 first round picks and a second rounder.

With Houston needing a QB in such a bad way , to get them to give up their choice of the three , a team is really going to have to come up with a significant offer .... I would accept nothing short of 4 , 24 & 36 (or something similar if the deal isn't with Cleveland) if I wasn't getting a #1 next year.
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Old 01-11-2014   #384
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Given that everyone and their dog expects 2-3 QBs to be taken in the top 5 and 3-4 in the top 10, taking any of them isn't a reach to me.
This! I don't understand when people say, I would trade down and take Manziel at four but not at number 1. If he's (or any other player) good enough to take at 4, he's good enough to take at 1.
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Old 01-11-2014   #385
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
This! I don't understand when people say, I would trade down and take Manziel at four but not at number 1. If he's (or any other player) good enough to take at 4, he's good enough to take at 1.
I think the logic is that Manziel is a pick we could settle on if awarded additional compensation, but not worth taking if that's all we get.
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Old 01-11-2014   #386
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
This! I don't understand when people say, I would trade down and take Manziel at four but not at number 1. If he's (or any other player) good enough to take at 4, he's good enough to take at 1.
Why get him at 1-1 when you could get him at 4 and some picks? That's just straight-up value.
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Old 01-11-2014   #387
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
Why get him at 1-1 when you could get him at 4 and some picks? That's just straight-up value.
If you can that is fine. If you can't then it doesn't make him a reach at 1-1.
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Old 01-11-2014   #388
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Sounds like the people who are open to trading back to #4 and taking Manziel aren't that high on him.

If you love him you take him #1. Because trading back will net you more picks, but there's no guarantee Manziel is still there for you.
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Old 01-11-2014   #389
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That pick is worth more now than ever before with the rookie scale contracts. That's actually less than what Washington gave up to move up to #2.
Washington gave up 3 first round picks and a second rounder.
The talent dictates the value. Washington was head over heels for Griffin. That's why they gave up what they did. You would need a team to fall similarly in love with a prospect this year to net that kind of trade. We're #1 and most people on this board want no part of the pick. What makes you think another team feels differently?


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With Houston needing a QB in such a bad way , to get them to give up their choice of the three , a team is really going to have to come up with a significant offer .... I would accept nothing short of 4 , 24 & 36 (or something similar if the deal isn't with Cleveland) if I wasn't getting a #1 next year.
If a QB needy team like us doesn't like any of the QB's at #1, then why would another team trade up to be in that same position?
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Old 01-11-2014   #390
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Well , given the bust potential of all three .... any of them could be a reach. The driving force here is the demand for the position.
& the talent level in the draft. If there are only 6 elite players, 4 non-elite players will be taken in the top 10. As important as QB is..... plus the aforementioned need....
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Old 01-11-2014   #391
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Given that everyone and their dog expects 2-3 QBs to be taken in the top 5 and 3-4 in the top 10, taking any of them isn't a reach to me.
I agree, taking Bridgewater or Manziel in the top 5 is not a reach. Both have been regarded as top prospects for over a year and have reason to be mentioned. I think Bortles would be a reach top 5, but that's because I think his stock has been artificially hyped by media and draftniks because he has the size that TB and JFF lack. That's just my opinion though.

It's all a matter of opinion. Steelb doesn't like the QB's at the top of this draft so, in his opinion, it's a reach to take one.
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Old 01-11-2014   #392
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

You trade back, not because you expect someone specific to be there, but if you don't CARE who's there when you get there.

If you've got 5 guys with the same general grade, then you can trade back to the 5th spot and be assured that one of your guys will be there for you.

Wouldn't it be funny if we trade back, pick Sammy Watkins, and then use our new draft picks to trade back into the first and draft Tajh Boyd. We'd be re-uniting Tajh with both Sammy and Deandre and adding AJ into the mix. We'd have the strongest corps of WRs in the world and a guy that already has chemistry with two of them. Talk about crazy trading/drafting scenarios.
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Old 01-11-2014   #393
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You trade back, not because you expect someone specific to be there, but if you don't CARE who's there when you get there.

If you've got 5 guys with the same general grade, then you can trade back to the 5th spot and be assured that one of your guys will be there for you.

Wouldn't it be funny if we trade back, pick Sammy Watkins, and then use our new draft picks to trade back into the first and draft Tajh Boyd. We'd be re-uniting Tajh with both Sammy and Deandre and adding AJ into the mix. We'd have the strongest corps of WRs in the world and a guy that already has chemistry with two of them. Talk about crazy trading/drafting scenarios.
TBH that is a scenario that does hold some appeal.

But you'd still be settling for what appears to be a mediocre QB.
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Old 01-11-2014   #394
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You trade back, not because you expect someone specific to be there, but if you don't CARE who's there when you get there.

If you've got 5 guys with the same general grade, then you can trade back to the 5th spot and be assured that one of your guys will be there for you.

Wouldn't it be funny if we trade back, pick Sammy Watkins, and then use our new draft picks to trade back into the first and draft Tajh Boyd. We'd be re-uniting Tajh with both Sammy and Deandre and adding AJ into the mix. We'd have the strongest corps of WRs in the world and a guy that already has chemistry with two of them. Talk about crazy trading/drafting scenarios.
I can't imagine a scenario where Boyd isn't available at #33. If we fall in love and just have to have him then we trade up because he's a QB. But at #33 I'm 99% sure he will be sitting there waiting for us.

I like the idea of Boyd with AJ, Watkins, and Hopkins. I waver on whether Boyd could be a franchise QB but with those weapons I wouldn't be against taking a shot.
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Old 01-11-2014   #395
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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I can't imagine a scenario where Boyd isn't available at #33. If we fall in love and just have to have him then we trade up because he's a QB. But at #33 I'm 99% sure he will be sitting there waiting for us.

I like the idea of Boyd with AJ, Watkins, and Hopkins. I waver on whether Boyd could be a franchise QB but with those weapons I wouldn't be against taking a shot.
So... you see a suitable OT in the third? Or at least within our reach?


I'd be more excited about that lineup than I would TB/Manziel/Bortles.
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Old 01-11-2014   #396
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So... you see a suitable OT in the third? Or at least within our reach?


I'd be more excited about that lineup than I would TB/Manziel/Bortles.
There's a chance that Morgan Moses or JuWaun James is there at the top of the third. Both are RTs only.
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Old 01-11-2014   #397
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Cleveland owner loves Manziel. He would be a fool to give up those valuable picks to stockpile talent on his team. Awesome comments from everyone by the way.
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Old 01-11-2014   #398
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
The talent dictates the value. Washington was head over heels for Griffin. That's why they gave up what they did. You would need a team to fall similarly in love with a prospect this year to net that kind of trade. We're #1 and most people on this board want no part of the pick. What makes you think another team feels differently?




If a QB needy team like us doesn't like any of the QB's at #1, then why would another team trade up to be in that same position?
You are right , the majority here , it seems at least to this point would rather trade the 1:1. BUT .... that majority isn't an overwhelming one nor is it anywhere close to everyone .... All it takes is ONE owner or GM to fall in love with one of these prospects and you have the same situation.

If you offer that QB needy team enough compensation ..... and one of the top three prospects who are separated by little ...


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Cleveland owner loves Manziel. He would be a fool to give up those valuable picks to stockpile talent on his team. Awesome comments from everyone by the way.
There have also been rumblings that McNair likes Johnny Football too ....
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Old 01-11-2014   #399
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Clowney is everything yet nothing you want as the #1 overall pick.
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Old 01-11-2014   #400
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Clowney is everything yet nothing you want as the #1 overall pick.
Scares the crap outa me ..... could be a monster , could be worse than JAG. If I'm making that gamble , its going to be at QB given the current circumstances.
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