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Old 01-09-2014   #341
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I don't disagree with that. He could obviously use Clowney. But Clowney doesn't fit the typical DE or OLB in his system. So instead of taking Clowney #1 and adapting it would seem more likely that we take a guy later that fits what Crennel is looking for.

If Clowney isn't an ideal fit for what Crennel wants to do then I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have him as high on our board as others do.

You don't always necessarily draft guys based on who has the most talent. You draft guys based on who makes the biggest impact on your team. Clowney, like Mario, is a supreme talent but would be replaceable in this system.
If you take the most talented players or if they dont fit yor scheme try to trade down you cant go wrong. Reaching for less talented players to fill needs is a big reason why the Texans are where they are today.

The question for you is if Atl or Oakland offers you a Cleveland type trade to move down, do you take the risk? I would in a heartbeat.
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Old 01-09-2014   #342
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
If you take the most talented players or if they dont fit yor scheme try to trade down you cant go wrong. Reaching for less talented players to fill needs is a big reason why the Texans are where they are today.

The question for you is if Atl or Oakland offers you a Cleveland type trade to move down, do you take the risk? I would in a heartbeat.
Trade down is a big time option for me as long as the offer is worth it.
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Old 01-09-2014   #343
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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If you take the most talented players or if they dont fit yor scheme try to trade down you cant go wrong. Reaching for less talented players to fill needs is a big reason why the Texans are where they are today.

The question for you is if Atl or Oakland offers you a Cleveland type trade to move down, do you take the risk? I would in a heartbeat.
Without a Doubt you do it. IMO there are six elite prospects in this draft. If we can trade down and still get one of them it's a BIGTIME win IMO.
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Old 01-09-2014   #344
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Trade down is a big time option for me as long as the offer is worth it.
This is where I was originally.

However, after some thought, if the Texans believe there is something that separates Teddy Bridgewater, Blake Bortles, & Jonny Manziel, or some combination of the three, from Mettenberger, McCarron (who I'm really starting to like), & Boyd, then trading down is not an option.

Those three will be gone within the first 5 picks.

But if you think someone like Met, McCarron, or Boyd can be a franchise QB, then yeah. Trade down.
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Old 01-09-2014   #345
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

IF we go Clowney, then I expect us to run a 4-3 instead of a 3-4. Crennel has run both of them during his career although he's been more of a standard 2-gap 3-4 most recently. If he had Watt and Clowney, both capable of being gap-shooting 4-3 DEs, then I can't see how he wouldn't take both of them and try to maximize their potential.

If the FO determines Clowney is the best talent in the draft AND they're not worried about possible motivation and judgment issues, then that's the way to go.

I'm not convinced about Clowney, yet.
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Old 01-09-2014   #346
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
IF we go Clowney, then I expect us to run a 4-3 instead of a 3-4. Crennel has run both of them during his career although he's been more of a standard 2-gap 3-4 most recently. If he had Watt and Clowney, both capable of being gap-shooting 4-3 DEs, then I can't see how he wouldn't take both of them and try to maximize their potential.

If the FO determines Clowney is the best talent in the draft AND they're not worried about possible motivation and judgment issues, then that's the way to go.

I'm not convinced about Clowney, yet.
Oh I don't think there's much doubt that he's the best talent in this years Draft, I'm seeing a lot of analysts saying he's the best Dline prospect coming out of college this century (so far). Now there's some relatively minor off field issues, but the big question when it comes to Draft priorities is how badly does your team need a QB and what's your rating of the current batch.
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Old 01-09-2014   #347
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Oh I don't think there's much doubt that he's the best talent in this years Draft, I'm seeing a lot of analysts saying he's the best Dline prospect coming out of college this century (so far). Now there's some relatively minor off field issues, but the big question when it comes to Draft priorities is how badly does your team need a QB and what's your rating of the current batch.
That's just prisoner of the moment stuff. Suh was a far superior prospect.
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Old 01-09-2014   #348
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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That's just prisoner of the moment stuff. Suh was a far superior prospect.
Yup, typical draft hyperbole. Happens every year. A lot of times they end up not even being the best player in that draft at the position.
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Old 01-09-2014   #349
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
That's just prisoner of the moment stuff. Suh was a far superior prospect.
I meant to say DE and of course Suh is an inside guy. But Suh was very highly rated coming out and oh yea, I too saw him wreck UT in the Big 12 championship game which was one of the top college performances ever by any defensive player.
But back to Clowney, I got to see the Bowl game vs Wisconsin and I thought he was very, very impressive. But since the 90s the only DE name I've heard mentioned as being there with Clowney is Peppers, and most rate Clowney a better prospect.
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Old 01-09-2014   #350
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Yup, typical draft hyperbole. Happens every year. A lot of times they end up not even being the best player in that draft at the position.
Which I'm predicting will be the case between Michigan's Taylor and J. Matthews, who seems to get raving reviews and predictions as a potential franchise LT despite having 2nd rate feet which is what sets
the LTs apart from the RTs more than anything else.
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Old 01-09-2014   #351
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Which I'm predicting will be the case between Michigan's Taylor and J. Matthews, who seems to get raving reviews and predictions as a potential franchise LT despite having 2nd rate feet which is what sets
the LTs apart from the RTs more than anything else.
Today I am predicting Greg Robinson will be the first OT drafted.
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Old 01-09-2014   #352
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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If you take the most talented players or if they dont fit yor scheme try to trade down you cant go wrong. Reaching for less talented players to fill needs is a big reason why the Texans are where they are today..
Exactly. If there is a franchise LT in this draft, we should take him. If that moves our best OT to the right side of the line.... so be it. It elevates the whole team a lot more than finding a suitable RT.

Same thing for corner back. We've got a lot of money tied up in the position, but we didn't see elite level play from either last season. Take the elite Corner, move Kj to safety or cut Jjo. The whole team is a lot better off.

Instead of looking for a back up for Arian Foster, we should be looking for an inexpensive replacement.


& I love Arian, Duane, & Kj. But we need to get to the next level.
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Old 01-09-2014   #353
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Exactly. If there is a franchise LT in this draft, we should take him. If that moves our best OT to the right side of the line.... so be it. It elevates the whole team a lot more than finding a suitable RT.

Same thing for corner back. We've got a lot of money tied up in the position, but we didn't see elite level play from either last season. Take the elite Corner, move Kj to safety or cut Jjo. The whole team is a lot better off.

Instead of looking for a back up for Arian Foster, we should be looking for an inexpensive replacement.


& I love Arian, Duane, & Kj. But we need to get to the next level.
Yeah,JoeThomas all world has been on the team with one of the worse records in football. Remember robert gallery who was taken in front of ben and rivers? Franchise left tackle means nothing. Who are the franchise left tackles playing this week in the afc? Denver set the every offensive record in the nfl and clady was in street clothes all year. Luck,brady,nor rivers have franchise left tackles or rt's for that matter.
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Old 01-09-2014   #354
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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If we end up drafting Clowney then the questions will have been answered satisfactorily by both.

When I postedthe video,everyone for the most part agreed clowney was doubled 2 times or so and chipped 4 times maybe. Most of his action,he wasn't even blocked and set free. Not to mention wide 9 which really stresses your inside backers,remember philly. That's why all thlse double and tripled every play or most of the time were ridiculous accusations. Not only did richardson handle him,the right tackle on the flip,who I don't even know was handling him.

I think he's intriguing and he needs a lot of technique work. Even last year when people were calling him the next whoever after the michigan play,he knifed and made the play. I'm not against instincts,but as a de or olb, you should alwas keep your open side arm free to take blocks and turn everything. If you notice,not just on those clips,he was giving up contain.

If you go look at aldon smith,jj watt,von miller,robert quinn and guys like that,even coming in they were a lot more polished technique wise than clowney. That's not to say he won't or can't learn with good coaching. As I said before,even the mario/julius take plays off are minor compared to clowney. As posted also,its not like he didn't have a lot talent on that defense either.
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Old 01-09-2014   #355
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Luck,brady,nor rivers have franchise left tackles or rt's for that matter.
But there's no Luck, Brady, Rivers in this draft. If there were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Old 01-09-2014   #356
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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But there's no Luck, Brady, Rivers in this draft. If there were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Total bs! Go back and read what people thought of rivers. In fact, acorsi,the giants gm said if the manning deal fell through,he was prepared to take big ben. There are always premeditated convo about propects. Last yr,all the people said what? Wait till next yr when bridgewater,boyd,murry,and fales come out. People were saying there will be 4 franchise qbs,now people are saying wait till next yr? Same cycle bro. Going into his jr yr,nobody had rg3 as a top qb prospect. Everyone and their mama said if bridgewater was the best qb prospect in cfb last yr as a sophmore.

Point is, don't ride along,do your own research and make your own conclusions. I never thought Joeckel was that good. He was destroyed by margus hunt and corey lemoniore. He reaches and is on the ground a lot. I thought the best lt propect was lane johnson. I can watch enough games to make my own conclusions. The only flag most come up with in regards to bridgewater is his frame. Not his arm,presence,poise, or football iq. How many qbs come out with so few questions and are not franchise qbs?
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Old 01-09-2014   #357
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Total bs! Go back and read what people thought of rivers. In fact, acorsi,the giants gm said if the manning deal fell through,he was prepared to take big ben. There are always premeditated convo about propects. Last yr,all the people said what? Wait till next yr when bridgewater,boyd,murry,and fales come out. People were saying there will be 4 franchise qbs,now people are saying wait till next yr? Same cycle bro. Going into his jr yr,nobody had rg3 as a top qb prospect. Everyone and their mama said if bridgewater was the best qb prospect in cfb last yr as a sophmore.
& last year at this time we were thinking our 2014 draft pick would be in the high 20s saying Boyd had just as good a shot at being a franchise QB as Bridgewater. Mettenberger showed lots of promise & "we" thought Murray could be had in the 2nd or 3rd.

We were talking about the same guys, but they were going to be groomed as Matt's replacement in a year or so, not starting right away.

As far as I can tell, I'm one of the few who carried that view of these QBs into this year. The class was supposed to be deep with QB talent, & no sure fire franchise QB. & while Bridgewater played well, imo he didn't play well enough to over look the discrepencies between him & the prototypical franchise QB.

I've watched a bunch of him & my opinion is that his mechanics aren't near as "perfect" as some would have you believe. I don't believe he reads his progressions well. I do not like his footwork at all... & though many QBs hold the ball at chest level, I've never liked that technique. I think his receivers helped him out more than most want to admit & I think he either has a poor idea of ball placement or he's not as accurate as "they" say.

Do I think he can be a franchise QB? Sure. Do I think he has a better shot than Manziel, Bortles, Mettenberger, or even McCarron? Not really. He may very well be more prepared to start day 1 than the other guys, but that doesn't make him the "best" QB in this draft.
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Old 01-10-2014   #358
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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& last year at this time we were thinking our 2014 draft pick would be in the high 20s saying Boyd had just as good a shot at being a franchise QB as Bridgewater. Mettenberger showed lots of promise & "we" thought Murray could be had in the 2nd or 3rd.

We were talking about the same guys, but they were going to be groomed as Matt's replacement in a year or so, not starting right away.

As far as I can tell, I'm one of the few who carried that view of these QBs into this year. The class was supposed to be deep with QB talent, & no sure fire franchise QB. & while Bridgewater played well, imo he didn't play well enough to over look the discrepencies between him & the prototypical franchise QB.

I've watched a bunch of him & my opinion is that his mechanics aren't near as "perfect" as some would have you believe. I don't believe he reads his progressions well. I do not like his footwork at all... & though many QBs hold the ball at chest level, I've never liked that technique. I think his receivers helped him out more than most want to admit & I think he either has a poor idea of ball placement or he's not as accurate as "they" say.

Do I think he can be a franchise QB? Sure. Do I think he has a better shot than Manziel, Bortles, Mettenberger, or even McCarron? Not really. He may very well be more prepared to start day 1 than the other guys, but that doesn't make him the "best" QB in this draft.
You can sell me on bortles, I've watched enough to understand Texian lovefest. You can almost sell me on manziel except with his sloppiness inside the pocket and his lack of throwing the ball on time. The 2 qbs you can never sell me on are mccarron and mettenberger. With mccarron, the bowl game only solidifies what I and most people already knew. Can't drive the ball without a clean pocket,crumbles under duress. The qb with the jets was a winner with the talent they had. When you can sit ,without any worries in the pocket,that's a pretty job even in the sec. Unfortunately,that's not really nfl way of living. Mettenburger has been awful until this year and he's only looked avg even with pro style coaching. Even then,he again will have probably 2 wrs drafted in the 1st 35 picks. When you have players like that,you should look a lot better than what he has looked.
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Old 01-10-2014   #359
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Unfortunately,that's not really nfl way of living. Mettenburger has been awful until this year and he's only looked avg even with pro style coaching. Even then,he again will have probably 2 wrs drafted in the 1st 35 picks. When you have players like that,you should look a lot better than what he has looked.
Awful = actually played well, going by your comments about Clowney. That seems to a be a running theme with you.
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Old 01-10-2014   #360
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
When I postedthe video,everyone for the most part agreed clowney was doubled 2 times or so and chipped 4 times maybe. Most of his action,he wasn't even blocked and set free. Not to mention wide 9 which really stresses your inside backers,remember philly. That's why all thlse double and tripled every play or most of the time were ridiculous accusations. Not only did richardson handle him,the right tackle on the flip,who I don't even know was handling him.

I think he's intriguing and he needs a lot of technique work. Even last year when people were calling him the next whoever after the michigan play,he knifed and made the play. I'm not against instincts,but as a de or olb, you should alwas keep your open side arm free to take blocks and turn everything. If you notice,not just on those clips,he was giving up contain.

If you go look at aldon smith,jj watt,von miller,robert quinn and guys like that,even coming in they were a lot more polished technique wise than clowney. That's not to say he won't or can't learn with good coaching. As I said before,even the mario/julius take plays off are minor compared to clowney. As posted also,its not like he didn't have a lot talent on that defense either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
When I postedthe video,everyone for the most part agreed clowney was doubled 2 times or so and chipped 4 times maybe. Most of his action,he wasn't even blocked and set free. Not to mention wide 9 which really stresses your inside backers,remember philly. That's why all thlse double and tripled every play or most of the time were ridiculous accusations. Not only did richardson handle him,the right tackle on the flip,who I don't even know was handling him.

I think he's intriguing and he needs a lot of technique work. Even last year when people were calling him the next whoever after the michigan play,he knifed and made the play. I'm not against instincts,but as a de or olb, you should alwas keep your open side arm free to take blocks and turn everything. If you notice,not just on those clips,he was giving up contain.

If you go look at aldon smith,jj watt,von miller,robert quinn and guys like that,even coming in they were a lot more polished technique wise than clowney. That's not to say he won't or can't learn with good coaching. As I said before,even the mario/julius take plays off are minor compared to clowney. As posted also,its not like he didn't have a lot talent on that defense either.
No one gets double and triple teamed all the time. It's not even about that. It's about how much attention does he get. How much game planning is there going on for him. If the play is being run away from him of course he will be single blocked. If it's a quick three step timing pass most likely he'll get one guy blocking him. It's the plays that are ran in his direction or the five step drop pass plays that you have to focus on.

And another thing. He is one of the best players in a long time at setting the edge. You have to understand his role in certain situations. Sometimes his responsibility is to turn the play inside. To make sure the offensive player doesn't get to the outside.
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