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Old 01-06-2014   #281
steelbtexan
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
What a useless and ridiculous argument.
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
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Old 01-06-2014   #282
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Yeah and how'd that elite arm strength and size help guys like David Klingler, JP Losman, Kerry Collins and Jamarcus Russell?

You have some of the most ridiculous takes i've ever seen. Dalton and TB are no where close to the same prospect coming out.
Klingler- got hurt
Losman-Bust, couldn't read defenses, dumb
Collins- Made it to the NFC Championship game his 2nd yr, and a SB with the Giants. I will take that any day
Russell- Over hyped, Codiene addict, dumb

So 1 of the 4 worked and 1 got hurt.

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.

When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.
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Old 01-06-2014   #283
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
Not picking or trolling,but let's use ur previous example of qbs. First and foremost,you're the only guy I've seen call bridgewater a project,but it is what it is.

Cutler,do you consider him a franchise qb? Most don't,they consider him to have elite arm,questionable decision making and 1 playoff win.

Brees.Brees failed a physical because of a shoulder injury the last game of the season. Not to mention if brees was better earlier, and not getting it till after his 3rd yr,they chargers would hve been drafting #1 and made that trade. Because Brees was kinda sucking,they made the trade and took rivers.

Peyton Manning. We know the story,the neck injuries. If not for that,he would still be in Indy,the Texans never win a division and etc...

Palmer,no need to talk about him nor smith. One guy was looking grea until a knee injury and smith was a bum until harbs and couldn't get his job back because of ck's upside.

So you answer is get this big,strong,mobile cannon armed guy. To which I pointed out there we 2 of such guys among the 12 playoff teams. Those 2, cam and ck play each other this week. In other news,the other regular guys with nfl arms are playing also. I highly doubt the gm is saying,if we can't get a cam,ben,ck,flacco type of qb,then we can't draft one at all. Unless you're trying to prop up garbage like mettenburger.
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Old 01-06-2014   #284
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Klingler- got hurt
Losman-Bust, couldn't read defenses, dumb
Collins- Made it to the NFC Championship game his 2nd yr, and a SB with the Giants. I will take that any day
Russell- Over hyped, Codiene addict, dumb

So 1 of the 4 worked and 1 got hurt.

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.

When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.
Rodgers and brees had nfl arms just like TB. Brady didn't even have a nfl arm and even now his arm is just ok. CK and Flacco had eite arms,but go back and watch the senior bowl,I was in mobile, and ck had this funky delivery and they weren't sure how he was gonna fair.

In terms of rodgers,think about this,the 1st 2 yrs,they were sure about him either and his arm because he held the ball so close to his ear,he couldn't generate rpms on the ball. The coaches moved his delivery down and if you've listened to phil simms,you couldn't tell if it was favre throwing or rodgers. Even then,they,they great thompson spent a high 2nd and a and 7th on qbs.
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Old 01-06-2014   #285
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
https://twitter.com/gil_brandt/statu...98814864388096



Some sort of package for Mallett? Hmmm...maybe Clowney at 1-1 isn't so far fetched?
Clowney has the talent to be the first overall pick but he's not coming to Houston if Romeo Crennel is hired to be the DC. He's a typical 4-3 DE and in my opinion you would have to move him to OLB in Crennel's defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
You're telling us to stop settling at the QB position? Are you serious? We want the top QB in the draft. Not a mediocre veteran free agent or a late round project like Brett Smith. I want the top QB that is available to us. I do not see the Dalton comparison like you do and I think waiting until next year for Jameis Winston is a fantasy that's not going to happen. After all, if Winston is that good then why would the team with the first pick trade him to us?
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Old 01-06-2014   #286
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

So steelbluetexan, peyton has 1 ring because he doesn't. Have a gun,yet tom brady has 3 because he does? How about this, brady has won a superbowl without a top 5 defense. Brady was sb mvp throwing for 170 yds. Brady and his high powered offenses couldn't crack 20pts in his last 2 sbs. How many playoff games have brady won when his defense gave up more than 24 ppg? So brady who didn't even have matt schaub arm talent wins in the cold cuz?
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Old 01-06-2014   #287
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Klingler- got hurt
Losman-Bust, couldn't read defenses, dumb
Collins- Made it to the NFC Championship game his 2nd yr, and a SB with the Giants. I will take that any day
Russell- Over hyped, Codiene addict, dumb

So 1 of the 4 worked and 1 got hurt.

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.

When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.
Yet the superbowl Peyton did win was in a driving rain storm against a top 5 defense.

Furthermore, 3 of the guys you named above didn't have the elite arm strength you're coveting when they came out. An NFL strength and conditioning program can and will help with that....
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Old 01-06-2014   #288
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.
Rogers has a great arm , great mechanics but is also very mobile & can dissect a defense with the best of them.

Kaepernick has a big arm but has Frank Gore & a stellar defense to back him up. Defenses have "figured him out" to some extent ... He doesn't have the mechanics or ability to read defenses like Rogers , Brees or Brady. He gets by with more on his physical attributes than football savy IMO.


Brees has a great arm , is very mobile & has an uncanny ability to avoid pressure ... he also has the quick release & ability to read defenses at a high level both pre & post snap.


Brady's got an "above average arm" but mechanics are flawless .... He reads defenses as well or better than anyone not named Peyton Manning ... and despite not being very mobile , avoids pressure well.


All of these guy's have several attributes that make them the best in the game .... Having a strong arm does little when you cant do the other things.






When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.[/quote]
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Old 01-06-2014   #289
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.
Kap doesn't have a ring...
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Old 01-06-2014   #290
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
No it isn't.

Let's take a look at these QBs who aren't 1st rounders people point to.
That's not the way his argument went.

His argument included Jj Watt & Colin Kaepernick. He didn't say anything about "#1 overall, great play offs"
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Old 01-06-2014   #291
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
Bridgewater is a mobile, strong armed QB with a quick release. He also has great football intelligence and is one of the most driven players with a great desire to get better and an exceptional work ethic. He is not the biggest QB, but that`s about the only knock about him.

Scouts have praised his mechanics. They are not perfect, but the ball is coming out very quick and very accurate. His release could be a bit higher, but hardly any scout seems to be too concerned about that.

No drafted QB is a lock. Trading up to get the next Luck is either extremely costly or not possible at all, if we don`t have high draft picks to offer. And even then there is no guarantee.

I don`t know if taking Bridgewater would be settling. A lot of people consider him one of the best 2 players in this draft. And a lot of people think, a guy with his football intelligence and love for the game will succeed, especially if he has almost all the desired tools to go with that (great accuracy, great pocket presence and at avoiding the rush, very quick release, great leader and teammate).
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Old 01-06-2014   #292
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
This kind of thinking is what got the Texans HWNSNBM. Meanwhile Peppers was playing in NFC championship/SB's with Jake Delhomme as his QB.
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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
What a useless and ridiculous argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Is it false and if so how?
Life doesn't happen in a vacuum. Carr was a legit prospect who was drafted to an expansion team and failed for various reasons. Peppers joined an established franchise who had been to the playoffs before Peppers even got there.

It sounds to me that you are so unsure of your scouting skills that you need a sure thing in order to pull the trigger on a QB. And your reasoning is that a QB failed the last time we took one this high. Yet everything, and I mean everything is different.

And your solution is to wait for another Andrew Luck which some team is going to trade to you for unknown reasons... OK dude.
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Old 01-06-2014   #293
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra.
I'm rarely on board with taking a QB 1st overall. Guy's got to be special, or the draft has to be pretty weak.
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Old 01-06-2014   #294
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Corosion, coming out of college,brees nor rodgers were said to have great arms. Tom brady didn't even have a nfl caliber arm. CK had a gun,but he had a windup and a hitch. Now we're talking 21 yr olds. I know for me,I played d-1 hoops. I was 6'3 185. When I left, I was 6'4 .5 and 210. By 24 I was 220lbs. I was a lot bigger and stronger at 24 than at 18
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Old 01-06-2014   #295
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Corosion, coming out of college,brees nor rodgers were said to have great arms. Tom brady didn't even have a nfl caliber arm. CK had a gun,but he had a windup and a hitch. Now we're talking 21 yr olds. I know for me,I played d-1 hoops. I was 6'3 185. When I left, I was 6'4 .5 and 210. By 24 I was 220lbs. I was a lot bigger and stronger at 24 than at 18
I will give you this and with his work ethic this is why TB will probably be 1-1.

Everybody seems to be on the TB train. Although I wouldn't pick him 1-1 this is the reason I wont be upset if BO'B picks TB #1.

Trading down is the best option in my mind. I like a QB with a different skillset than most apparently.
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Old 01-07-2014   #296
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

i get the sense from a media stand point (cant tell what teams are thinking) that if TB was
6.5ft 230 pounds, with everything else being equal he would be considered a franchise QB and a "can't miss" prospect.
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Old 01-07-2014   #297
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Corosion, coming out of college,brees nor rodgers were said to have great arms. Tom brady didn't even have a nfl caliber arm. CK had a gun,but he had a windup and a hitch. Now we're talking 21 yr olds. I know for me,I played d-1 hoops. I was 6'3 185. When I left, I was 6'4 .5 and 210. By 24 I was 220lbs. I was a lot bigger and stronger at 24 than at 18
Has nothing to do with my point which was arm alone isn't going to get it done in the NFL. They have to have some other attribute/s besides that arm to be a top tier NFL QB.
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Old 01-07-2014   #298
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Has nothing to do with my point which was arm alone isn't going to get it done in the NFL. They have to have some other attribute/s besides that arm to be a top tier NFL QB.
Ok,I gotcha
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Old 01-07-2014   #299
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm pretty sure, with the Crennel hire, that we can take Clowney off the board at #1 (along with my pet project: Aaron Donald). So, that takes care of that.

Other names that may have moved up our board as potential 1st round picks on defense:

A. Barr (OLB)
L. Nix (NT) ... I doubt either would be selected with 1.1, but perhaps could be targeted with a move down a few spots.

Other possibilities if we drop beyond 1.5:
K. Mack OLB
CJ Mosley ILB - New England traded up to 1.9 a few years ago to get J.Mayo.

I would say Crennel's hiring increases the likelihood, a great deal, that the Texans go offense (QB of their liking or Matthews), or trade down.
If Matthews is our target, then a trade down to 1-4 makes sense because 1-1 and 1-2 are both likely to be traded fo QB hungry teams and 1-3 is also QB hungry. I'm certain Cleveland would rather have pick 1 than pick 4 among the QBs. Using the old formula, this would mean Cleveland's 1-4 {1800}, 1-27 {680} (25-32 depending on Colts Finish) and 2-36 {540} {{3020}} for our 1-1 {3000} or thereabouts. Perhaps more if they get into a bidding war with other teams. We still get Matthews or Barr and pick up two high picks, perhaps including either Bortles or Mettenberger.

1-4 OT Mathews or OLB Barr
1-27 DE Nix or DE Hageman
2-33 S Clinton-Dix
2-36 DE Murphy or OT Richardson
3-65 QB Mettenberger or QB Fales or SS Dixon Or OLB Van Noy
4-97 QB McCarron or SS Harris or OLB SMith or OLB Ford
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Old 01-07-2014   #300
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
This is the point. Is there a Great QB among this group of Good prospects or not? If there is you hold onto or trade up for QB. If not, trade with someone who disagrees.
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