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Old 04-29-2014   #2781
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post

At best (to me) he has a MW type impact. A little different player overall, but in terms of overall impact to me that's about as much as we can expect and as far as I know he doesn't play QB, so I don't care how good he is. He can be all-world but if we don't have a QB, it's all for naught.

And I think it's just as likely than not that he never comes close to living up to the pre-draft hype.
If I thought JD was going to have Mario Williams type impact, I'd be beating the table to draft the kid.

Mario was our pass rush. He was our defense. If we had Jj Watt, drafting Mario Williams would be a no brainer.

We had the best defensive player on our team last season & we went 2-14. Mario never had that kind of impact.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2782
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Give me #6, #37, and next year's 1st and I'd take it happily.

I wouldn't start the negotiation there but that's my bottom offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
This is where I'm at. Maybe an extra 3rd day pick just for kicks
I'm with you guys; swap firsts plus their 2nd and 4th this year and first next year.
Less than that and I walk away from the table and take him myself.

But I start at #6, #37, #68, and next year's first. Clowney is interesting but I'd rather fill three additional spots than settling for filling just the one.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2783
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
"What we're looking at is the way the athlete moves, and also how he puts himself at risk, in his interaction with the ground," said Dr. Phil Wagner, [the founder of Sparta Performance Science who conceived the Force Plate test]. "That's the key -- the interaction with the ground. We look at the foot-ground interaction, and in a very quick, dynamic fashion, we can be specific to how an athlete will play a certain position. Off that jump alone we can tell he'll be better at performing one act than another, tell what injuries he's at risk for, his upside, his challenges, all of that."
...

"(Clowney's) movement signature validates that he's both very physically gifted and physically resilient," said Dr. Wagner. "What we found is he's not a large injury risk, and he certainly has a lot of tools."
...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...lusive-insight
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Old 05-01-2014   #2784
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

No way I draft Clowney #1 over all...

my source that is a scout and is FOJH( Friend of Jimmy Hoffa)to the sister of the the guy that is the brother in law of his friends dad said he had a reliable source that Clowney had skinny elbows and therefore should drop in the draft...

I mean, skinny elbows is not good for a DE...
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Old 05-01-2014   #2785
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Despite the bone spurs he consistently refuses to have necessary surgery for.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2786
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Give me #6, #37, and next year's 1st and I'd take it happily.

I wouldn't start the negotiation there but that's my bottom offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
This is where I'm at. Maybe an extra 3rd day pick just for kicks
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I'm with you guys; swap firsts plus their 2nd and 4th this year and first next year.
Less than that and I walk away from the table and take him myself.

But I start at #6, #37, #68, and next year's first. Clowney is interesting but I'd rather fill three additional spots than settling for filling just the one.
I think most of us are in agreement that trading down , getting multiple picks this year and a 1st next is the way to go ....

Its what we do with that #6 pick that we may differ on , hell , I argue with myself over which QB I like most ....
I wouldn't have a problem taking one of the top QB's at 6. Honestly I wouldn't have a real issue with taking one of them at 1:1 , but getting the same guy at 6 you would have taken at 1 and getting a pocket full of picks in the process is ideal.

Johnny Bottled Water @ 6!!
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Old 05-01-2014   #2787
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
No way I draft Clowney #1 over all...

my source that is a scout and is FOJH( Friend of Jimmy Hoffa)to the sister of the the guy that is the brother in law of his friends dad said he had a reliable source that Clowney had skinny elbows and therefore should drop in the draft...

I mean, skinny elbows is not good for a DE...
I have a friend who's uncle was Carlos Marcella's milkman that said Clowney can point guard and 1st base at a HOF level .
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Old 05-01-2014   #2788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I'm with you guys; swap firsts plus their 2nd and 4th this year and first next year.
Less than that and I walk away from the table and take him myself.

But I start at #6, #37, #68, and next year's first. Clowney is interesting but I'd rather fill three additional spots than settling for filling just the one.

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Old 05-01-2014   #2789
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Old 05-01-2014   #2790
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Yeah mate. Brisbane.

Where in NZ?

Follow the AFL?
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Old 05-01-2014   #2791
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Shezza View Post
Yeah mate. Brisbane.

Where in NZ?

Follow the AFL?
Auckland.

Welcome to the board, there are a few other Australians that come around.

I'll watch it if its on but don't really follow it.

I guess I nominally root for the North Melbourne Kangaroos.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2792
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Union fan I'm guessing?

Sorry for taking this off track. Clowney eh.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2793
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Question for you 2. Why in the ***** does anybody down your way get in the water? It's like a buffet for sharks down there.

And back on topic, is it a given if we draft clowney that he plays the SAM?
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Old 05-01-2014   #2794
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
Question for you 2. Why in the ***** does anybody down your way get in the water? It's like a buffet for sharks down there.

And back on topic, is it a given if we draft clowney that he plays the SAM?
I'm pretty sure toasters kill more people every year than sharks do. For real.

Also on Clowney I thought it was a given that he plays weakside and rushes more.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2795
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
I'm pretty sure toasters kill more people every year than sharks do. For real.

Also on Clowney I thought it was a given that he plays weakside and rushes more.
Im sure toasters do...along with toilets ( see Sig ) , but toasters dont swallow people whole, rip them limb from limb, or rush into a frenzy at the first drop of blood. People dont have nightmares about toasters (most anyway) , and frankly, the movie JAWS wouldn't have been nearly as terrifying if you replaced the shark with a pissed off toaster.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2796
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Shezza View Post
Union fan I'm guessing?

Sorry for taking this off track. Clowney eh.
Nah, I'm Texans first, then Houston Rockets in the NBA, then Arsenal football in the EPL and then New Zealand Warriors in the NRL.

HATE union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powda View Post
Question for you 2. Why in the ***** does anybody down your way get in the water? It's like a buffet for sharks down there.

And back on topic, is it a given if we draft clowney that he plays the SAM?
Sharks are a more Australian thing, along with poisonous snakes and spiders. Why do people live there again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
I'm pretty sure toasters kill more people every year than sharks do. For real.
Speaking of spiders, more people each year are killed by champagne corks than poisonous spiders.


As for Clowney, I personally think he'll spend a ton of time with his hand in the dirt playing in our Nickel and Dime packages.

I'd probably prefer him to play 3-4 end but that would mean we aren't two gapping.
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Old 05-01-2014   #2797
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Peshek: Edge Rushers 1.0Thursday, April 17, 2014

*

Pass rushers are a group that can easily plague an evaluator with small sample sizes. Watching four games of film on a pass rusher could show a player who constantly harasses the QB or never even comes close to accruing a hurry. Examining how a player pressures the QB on a per snap basis can alleviate some of that sample size pressure, giving true insight into a player’s consistency in getting after the QB. For the first group (this grouping has nothing to do with talent or perceived ranking), I’ve chosen to examine*Jadeveon Clowney
,*Kareem Martin
,*James Gayle
,*Demarcus Lawrence
*and*Anthony Barr
.
*
Putting together pass rush efficiency required me to go through and chart every snap where the players rushed the QB. Some sack totals may not line up with what’s listed as I’ve added and subtracted sacks I felt were mistakenly attributed. As always, use this as a complement to examining film rather than in its stead.



How well did they rush the passer?
*
The chart below represents pass rush efficiency for each of the defensive tackles. The metric PRR, pass rush rate, measures how often the pass rusher affected the QB in the form of a pressure, sack, or knockdown. PRR+ includes pass deflections at the line of scrimmage. The number represents on a per snap basis, how often they get to the QB – i.e., if PRR is 10 it means they affect the QB once every 10 snaps. Thus a lower number is better.
*
PRRMain**
- Right off the bat we can pick out that Clowney doesn’t have the most efficient pass rush rate, racking up a pressure on the quarterback once every 10.69 snaps. That’s not the end of the world for several reasons.
**** - Within this group, he clearly has the largest increase in PRR when it comes to adding in passes defensed. In addition, he managed to garner 20 hurries – more than both*Demarcus Lawrence
*and*Anthony Barr
.
**** - We know from his 2012 campaign that he was able to convert sacks, with a total of 13 that year. If he’s able to combine his propensity for pressures from 2013 and sacks from 2012- he’ll be a force.
*
-*Kareem Martin
*has the lowest PRR of the group, and thus was the most efficient pass rusher among this set of players. He by far took the most snaps, rushing the passer 333 times during the year while putting together a nice combination of hurries and sacks. The higher amount of snaps came from his ability to slide inside and rush the passer from a multitude of positions.
*
- A bit of a darkhorse as a pass rusher this year,*James Gayle
*came in slightly behind*Kareem Martin
*for second most efficient of the group. While he didn’t display the same versatility as Martin, his pure pass rush skills can’t be denied
*
-*Anthony Barr
*and*Demarcus Lawrence
*are interesting cases with regards to their distribution of pressures and sacks. Both had lower hurry numbers similar to their total number of sacks. I didn’t keep a strict tally of unblocked/ blocked pressures, but there’s some indication this ratio could allude to a higher number of pressures gained undeservingly.
*
*
Where did they rush the passer from?
*
It’s easy to watch a pass rusher and imagine they could pressure the passer from different spots on the field, but that’s not always the case. The following chart breaks down the position that they rushed from and how effective they were at doing so using the PRR stat.
*
RushLoc
*
- Clowney clearly took the majority of his snaps from the right end position, facing the opposing team’s left tackle approximately 85% of the time. In doing so he pressured the passer once every 12.24 snaps. However, on the 10% of snaps he took on the left side he was three times more efficient, hurrying the QB once every 4 snaps. There are a number of theories, weaker competition at right tackle, dominant side, better matchups – regardless he did extremely well at LDE.
*
- The only player in this group to take a significant number of snaps inside (30%),*Kareem Martin
*was extremely efficient in his efforts between the tackles. His inside rush garnered a PRR of 7.62 which was nearly identical to his 7.5 PRR on the left side. The versatility he displayed cannot be overstated.
*
- Among the players who took snaps at multiple spots,*Demarcus Lawrence
*was the most consistent. Nearly splitting his time evenly between the left and right sides, his PRR was just slightly better playing on the right side.
*
- Unlike Clowney who thrived on the left side in limited time, Barr did not fare so well against team’s right tackles with a 30 PRR or one hurry on 30 snaps.
*
*
What blocking help did they have to face?
*
Double**
- Clowney defenders will be the first to say that teams threw extra double teams his way when asked about his decrease in production. In this case, the numbers bear that out. He was double teamed on 8.9% of his pass rush attempts, but was chipped by a RB or TE on a whopping 16.7% of his plays. In total, he faced extra offensive blocking on 25% of plays – more than double some others in this group.
*
- Collectively Martin and Gayle faced the least amount of extra blockers, only seeing blocking help on approximately 12% of plays. However,*Kareem Martin
*did face a higher proportion of double teams relative to how often he was chipped than other players. That could be a function of his time spent rushing from the inside.
*
- Lawrence and Barr split the difference between Martin and Clowney, ending up rushing against an extra blocker 17% of the time.
*
How good were their opponents?
*
Here I’ve put together a metric I call Pressure Strength of Schedule (PSOS) that measures the quality of the teams each player accrued their pressures against. It’s a mix of sacks allowed by opposing offensive lines and Sagarin rankings in an effort to measure team quality. It’s not perfect, but I’ve been happy with the results when used in the past. The score ranges from 0-100 with 100 being the hardest possible schedule. Thus, a higher number means pressures were gained against tougher competition.
*
SOS**
- As was true with the previous chart measuring chipped and double teams, Clowney had the toughest road to garnering pressures. His SEC opponents gave him a strength of schedule that no one in this group even came close to.
*
-*Kareem Martin
*and*James Gayle
’s road through the ACC was certainly not a cakewalk, but didn’t provide the same challenge as the SEC did for Clowney. Ranging between 42 and 44 on the PSOS score, their scores are slightly below average compared to results from current and previous years.
*
- The PAC-12 put up a tougher slate of opponents for*Anthony Barr
*than the ACC did for others, but still fell short of the SEC by nearly 14 points on the PSOS scale. Although it was still substantially higher than*Demarcus Lawrence
’s schedule difficulty during his time in the MWC.
*
*
How did they rush the passer?
*
The following chart breaks down the final pass rush move on every snap that a player made when attempting to pressure the QB. By the final move, I mean – if a player starts outside and then quickly routes back inside – the final move will be ‘Inside’. I won’t comment on it, but it can give you a feel for rush diversity and play style for each edge rusher.
*
RushMove**
That’s the extent of this breakdown on the first group of pass rushers. You can direct any comments or questions to me on Twitter @NU_Gap, where I’ll also be updating on future articles including the second group of pass rushers.

Metrics article about pass rushers. Don't know how to post the charts,but here is the link: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...out-of-the-box
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Old 05-02-2014   #2798
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Yeah mate. Brisbane.

Where in NZ?

Follow the AFL?
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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Auckland.

Welcome to the board, there are a few other Australians that come around.

I'll watch it if its on but don't really follow it.

I guess I nominally root for the North Melbourne Kangaroos.
How close are you guys to where the eclipse could be seen yesterday (or was it the day before?)?
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Old 05-02-2014   #2799
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Question for you 2. Why in the ***** does anybody down your way get in the water? It's like a buffet for sharks down there.



And back on topic, is it a given if we draft clowney that he plays the SAM?

It's not that bad. Unlike you guys, some ridiculous percentage of the population lives near the coast here. Like really really high.

And the beach is a huge part of our culture. So statistically it may seem high, but I reckon it's not so bad considering.
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Old 05-02-2014   #2800
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How close are you guys to where the eclipse could be seen yesterday (or was it the day before?)?

Been too busy to even realise it there was one. There was one two or three weeks ago which was kinda cool.
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