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Old 04-28-2014   #2761
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
That's cool,but could you post manny lawson and demotra moore stats when they played on the other side with mario williams and von miller. I'm pretty sure none of those players accumulated more sacks or tackles when they played with those guys. I could be wrong though.
2010:
Von Miller - 10.5
Damontre Moore - 5.5

2009:
Von Miller - 17
Eddie Brown - 4

2008:
Von Miller - 3.5
Cyril Obiozor - 3


2005:
Mario Williams - 14.5
Manny Lawson - 10.5

2004:
Manny Lawson - 7
Mario Williams - 6

2003:
Mario Williams - 5
Manny Lawson - 3
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Old 04-28-2014   #2762
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
What are our options?

If we invest our 1st rounder on a QB, what's it look like in the second?

Any interesting FAs coming up?

Brennan & Quiz.... are they in the mix?
Enough of will he or won't he regarding Clowney's inclination to hustle...

Back to the original question...
if we get stuck with Clowney, I say we get the bestest OT on the board. Unless there's a dang good ILB still available like Van Noy.
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Old 04-28-2014   #2763
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
2010:
Von Miller - 10.5
Damontre Moore - 5.5

2009:
Von Miller - 17
Eddie Brown - 4

2008:
Von Miller - 3.5
Cyril Obiozor - 3


2005:
Mario Williams - 14.5
Manny Lawson - 10.5

2004:
Manny Lawson - 7
Mario Williams - 6

2003:
Mario Williams - 5
Manny Lawson - 3
Thanks a lot and I'm glad you found the info to prove my point. In college or the nfl, when you have 2 pass rushers,the designated best will get line slides until the other guy is proven to be a problem. When that happens, teams will situationally slide protection based on down and distance along with field position and score. If we use the mario- manny dynamic, what you see is what clowney/quarles should've been. This is why I call bs on the always doubled,always line slides to clowney. Quarles had shown he could get to the qb and be disruptive from inside. As a result,from what I watched, clowney was singled a lot and didn't win 1 v 1 matchups for the once in a decade talent. When mario and manny had that same dynamic, mario had 14.5 sacks and manny 10.5. Once teams realized manny could be guys,they started to play mario more honestly. They did that to clowney and he had 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles.
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Old 04-28-2014   #2764
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Thanks a lot and I'm glad you found the info to prove my point. In college or the nfl, when you have 2 pass rushers,the designated best will get line slides until the other guy is proven to be a problem. When that happens, teams will situationally slide protection based on down and distance along with field position and score. If we use the mario- manny dynamic, what you see is what clowney/quarles should've been. This is why I call bs on the always doubled,always line slides to clowney. Quarles had shown he could get to the qb and be disruptive from inside. As a result,from what I watched, clowney was singled a lot and didn't win 1 v 1 matchups for the once in a decade talent. When mario and manny had that same dynamic, mario had 14.5 sacks and manny 10.5. Once teams realized manny could be guys,they started to play mario more honestly. They did that to clowney and he had 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles.
Didn't take much to prove a point to yourself did it..
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Old 04-28-2014   #2765
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Enough of will he or won't he regarding Clowney's inclination to hustle...

Back to the original question...
if we get stuck with Clowney, I say we get the bestest OT on the board. Unless there's a dang good ILB still available like Van Noy.
I think it depends on what's available.

If we go Clowney, then we've got to look to see who's there.

Van Noy or Shazier for ILB, a Morgan Moses or Antonio Richardson for OT, a Stephon Tuitt for DE... or whatever QB is still on the board: Bridgewater (which would have been UNTHINKABLE when this thread started), Carr (which may be unthinkable now), Garoppolo, Mettenberger, Murray, McCarron, etc., heck even on of the top-flight OGs like Su'a-Filo or Yankey, or one of the TEs like Amaro or Niklas. And if Louis Nix drops into our laps? RAC would love him.

There's going to be some talented guys to choose from.

OT definitely has to be up at the top of the list of needs, but it depends on who gets drafted and how things fall. And we've got some powerful needs at QB, ILB, DE, and NT.
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Old 04-28-2014   #2766
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Dimitroff, Smith feel Clowney's passion
Quote:
"Jadeveon Clowney, he's obviously a top-notch talent," Dimitroff told ESPN.com during a charity event Monday night. "He's a fun, upbeat player with a lot of passion for the game. We got a chance to spend a lot of good time with him, not only in our building but at South Carolina. He continues to impress us as an individual."

...Dimitroff talked about wanting to know more about Clowney, the person. Now he knows.

"There's no pretense with this kid," Dimitroff said. "He's about football. He's passionate. He's a light-hearted guy with an element of levity that we all appreciated. He's 21 years old, man. He's still growing and still learning. It's fun to see how excited he is about the rest of his career in professional football."
...
"I think he's an outstanding football player," [head coach Mike] Smith said of Clowney. "That's the consensus across the board. He's got a great skill-set in terms of what his abilities are as a lineman/defensive end. I feel like he's one of the top guys in the draft.

"I think that he's passionate about the game of football, and that's probably the most important thing when you're looking at a draft-eligible player. The tape is his DNA. But when you get a chance to sit down and talk with him, you know that he's passionate about playing the game."
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Old 04-29-2014   #2767
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Didn't take much to prove a point to yourself did it..
Eye in da sky don't lie,lol.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2768
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I really hope the Falcons sell the farm to the Texans to get this guy.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2769
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I really hope the Falcons sell the farm to the Texans to get this guy.
I do and I don't. I'm starting to really want Clowney. The thought of him and Watt together is exciting. Of course now that I'm leaning that way it will never happen. . If we do trade down we better get at least 4 picks one being a first next year.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2770
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I do and I don't. I'm starting to really want Clowney. The thought of him and Watt together is exciting. Of course now that I'm leaning that way it will never happen. . If we do trade down we better get at least 4 picks one being a first next year.
I need the draftniks to step up and tell us what they think is fair mkt value to move up from #6 to #1.

CBS Sports speculates this trade...

Quote:
The Atlanta Falcons can't just draft Jadeveon Clowney. And they can't simply trade for him. But they can pursue him. The question is: should they?
The answer's complex and a lot depends on the compensation involved. A report out there pegs the Falcons needing their 2014 first-round pick (No. 6 overall), their 2014 second-round pick (No. 37 overall) and their 2015 first-round pick.
Right now the Falcons have ten picks; nos. 6, 37, 68, 103, 139*, 147, 182, 220, 253*, and 255*. * = comp picks.

If you still believe in that value chart then we'd be getting shorted (3000 =/= 1600 + 530) unless we get an early (1st or 2nd) 2015 pick.

Thoughts??

Last edited by ObsiWan; 04-29-2014 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2771
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I need the draftniks to step up and tell us what they think is fair mkt value to move up from #6 to #1.

CBS Sports speculates this trade...


Right now the Falcons have ten picks; nos. 6, 37, 68, 103, 139*, 147, 182, 220, 253*, and 255*. * = comp picks.


If you still believe in that value chart then we'd be getting shorted (

3000 =/= 1600 + 530) unless we get an early (1st or 2nd) 2015 pick.

Thoughts??
I would want 6, 37, 68 and 2015 first that will likely be mid 20's
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Old 04-29-2014   #2772
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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I would want 6, 37, 68 and 2015 first that will likely be mid 20's
This is pretty much how I feel. I might consider their fourth instead of their third since this is a very deep draft. I would not accept anything less than that. But I would start the negotiations off with JBs reply.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2773
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I need the draftniks to step up and tell us what they think is fair mkt value to move up from #6 to #1.

CBS Sports speculates this trade...


Right now the Falcons have ten picks; nos. 6, 37, 68, 103, 139*, 147, 182, 220, 253*, and 255*. * = comp picks.


If you still believe in that value chart then we'd be getting shorted (

3000 =/= 1600 + 530) unless we get an early (1st or 2nd) 2015 pick.

Thoughts??
First you can't trade comp picks so take them out of the mix.

Next, the Falcons in 2011 at #27 (680 TVP) moved to #4 Cleveland (1600 TVP) a difference of 980 TVP. To move the Falcons gave the Browns #27 (680 TVP) + #59 (310 TVP) + #124 (48 TVP) + 12' 1st RD pick (800 TVP) + 12' 4th RD (50 TVP) = 1888 Trade Value Points (TVP).

Today to move from #6 (1600 TVP) to #1 (3000 TVP) that's a difference of (1400 TVP) Contrary to popular belief it should cost the Falcons more to move to #1 today than it did to from #27 to #6 in 2011.

How do the Falcons get to 3000 (TVP)? #6 (1600 TVP) + #37 (530 TVP) + 15' 1st RD pick (800 TVP) + 15' 3rd RD pick (160 TVP) = 3090 Trade Value Points (TVP).

There you go #6 to #1.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2774
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I'd probably take less than most. I'd probably move for their 1 & 2 this year and either a 4th this year or 2nd next year.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2775
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Give me #6, #37, and next year's 1st and I'd take it happily.

I wouldn't start the negotiation there but that's my bottom offer.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2776
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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First you can't trade comp picks so take them out of the mix.

Next, the Falcons in 2011 at #27 (680 TVP) moved to #4 Cleveland (1600 TVP) a difference of 980 TVP. To move the Falcons gave the Browns #27 (680 TVP) + #59 (310 TVP) + #124 (48 TVP) + 12' 1st RD pick (800 TVP) + 12' 4th RD (50 TVP) = 1888 Trade Value Points (TVP).

Today to move from #6 (1600 TVP) to #1 (3000 TVP) that's a difference of (1400 TVP) Contrary to popular belief it should cost the Falcons more to move to #1 today than it did to from #27 to #6 in 2011.

How do the Falcons get to 3000 (TVP)? #6 (1600 TVP) + #37 (530 TVP) + 15' 1st RD pick (800 TVP) + 15' 3rd RD pick (160 TVP) = 3090 Trade Value Points (TVP).

There you go #6 to #1.

Since I really like Clowney it would cost the Falcons #6/#37/#103 this yr and a 1st and 4th in 2015. Or no deal and the Texans pick Clowney to pair with Watt.


Since Smith doesn't like Clowney and the owner wants JM I expect the Texans to accept much less than this in a trade. A.K.A Get fleeced
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Old 04-29-2014   #2777
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Give me #6, #37, and next year's 1st and I'd take it happily.

I wouldn't start the negotiation there but that's my bottom offer.
This is where I'm at. Maybe an extra 3rd day pick just for kicks
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Old 04-29-2014   #2778
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Give me #6, #37, and next year's 1st and I'd take it happily.

I wouldn't start the negotiation there but that's my bottom offer.
Me too, I would be delighted with that deal.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2779
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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First you can't trade comp picks so take them out of the mix.
I know. I just listed them for completeness.
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Old 04-29-2014   #2780
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
I'd probably take less than most. I'd probably move for their 1 & 2 this year and either a 4th this year or 2nd next year.
I am not sold at all on Clowney. Just not. He may be all that and a bag of chips, and I am onboard if he is the pick and all....but I'm with Kiwi basically.

I would be fine with swapping and getting their #2 and #3 this year. Or their #2 and #1 next year would even be better. We need a lot of good players, not just one.

At best (to me) he has a MW type impact. A little different player overall, but in terms of overall impact to me that's about as much as we can expect and as far as I know he doesn't play QB, so I don't care how good he is. He can be all-world but if we don't have a QB, it's all for naught.

And I think it's just as likely than not that he never comes close to living up to the pre-draft hype.
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