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Old 04-26-2014   #2741
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post




couldn't find any.
Don't know what to tell you then.
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Old 04-26-2014   #2742
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
If you don't see the difference between Lawson and Clowney there is no hope for you.
Please tell me. Many lawson had better measurables and better production. Athlete trying to play football. Once again,the metric guy pointed out that in 2012, 80% of clowneys sacks were a result of pressure from other defensive players. Most notably,devin taylor. His freshman yr it was engram. His last season,spotlight bright,3 sacks,0 ff,and 24 tackles. Do the math. When the slacker know as mario williams was draft elgible 14 sacks,24 tfls,and 60 tackles. Von Miller? 68 tackles,17,tfls,and 10 sacks. Were these guys not doubled and tripled also?
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Old 04-27-2014   #2743
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Please tell me. Many lawson had better measurables and better production. Athlete trying to play football. Once again,the metric guy pointed out that in 2012, 80% of clowneys sacks were a result of pressure from other defensive players. Most notably,devin taylor. His freshman yr it was engram. His last season,spotlight bright,3 sacks,0 ff,and 24 tackles. Do the math. When the slacker know as mario williams was draft elgible 14 sacks,24 tfls,and 60 tackles. Von Miller? 68 tackles,17,tfls,and 10 sacks. Were these guys not doubled and tripled also?
My suggestion to you would be to stop putting so much stock into metrics, measureables and stupid ass stats. Every game Clowney has played in is available online. Watch the game tape!
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Old 04-27-2014   #2744
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
My suggestion to you would be to stop putting so much stock into metrics, measureables and stupid ass stats. Every game Clowney has played in is available online. Watch the game tape!
But he's too busy trashing Clowney to take the time to study the tape.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2745
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

2013:
Kelcy Quarles - 9.5
Jadeveon Clowney - 3
Chaz Sutton - 3

2012:
Jadeveon Clowney - 13
Aldrick Fordham - 5.5
Chaz Sutton - 5
Kelcy Quarles - 3.5
Devin Taylor - 3

2011:
Melvin Ingram - 10
Jadeveon Clowney - 8
Devin Taylor - 6
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Old 04-27-2014   #2746
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Hey, NFL, Clowney's on the way
Quote:
There's no debating this, though: Clowney loves making big plays and he's ready to do that from the outset at the next level.

"I think I work just as hard as anybody," Clowney says. "If you pick me and pair me with guys, I'm going to try and outwork them also."

Clowney has been pointed to the NFL ever since then-South Pointe High coach Bobby Carroll heard about the 6-foot-3 eighth grader walking through his team's weight room. "Who is that?" Carroll asked.

Now 6-6 and 266 pounds, Clowney has set off similar reactions throughout his life.

He's been a lightning rod for attention and for those picking apart a talent that seems as promising as any to enter the league in quite a while.

He was criticized by some when he chose South Carolina in 2011 for putting off his college announcement nearly two weeks so he could hold a televised session on his birthday, Feb. 14.

Clowney's youth coaches say they had to stay on top of him to make sure he played up to his enormous potential. It was the same situation at South Carolina, where Clowney's physical ability, fast first step and innate skill at making the big play overshadowed any questions.

It seemed like smooth sailing for the friendly sophomore when he capped his most successful season (school records of 13 sacks and 23 1-2 tackles for loss) with his signature moment: a helmet-popping hit on Michigan's Vincent Smith in that year's Outback Bowl. Smith fumbled and Clowney reached over with one hand to palm the football a sequence that became must-see Clowney.

He became a face of college football and his every move was videotaped, broken down and debated. Critics saw him breathing heavily in last season's opener against North Carolina and said he was out of shape. Some claimed his lack of production, with just three sacks last season, was because he was saving himself for a pro career.

Gamecocks coach Steve Spurrier didn't help, questioning his player's commitment when Clowney didn't suit up against Kentucky last October for what later turned out to be a strained muscle near his ribs.

Spurrier was displeased with his defensive star in the heat of the moment. "If doesn't want to play, he doesn't have to play. Simple as that," the coach said after beating Kentucky last Oct. 5.

Spurrier later acknowledged he was more upset that protocol for Clowney's absence wasn't followed, and says the Gamecocks wouldn't have this run of recent success 33-6 the past three years without Clowney on the field.

The scrutiny has intensified since Clowney announced after the Capital One Bowl in January he was giving up his final season of eligibility to go to the NFL. His judgment has been questioned regarding speeding tickets two in December and his limiting private workouts.

Just this week ESPN analyst Merrill Hoge said Clowney, while gifted, was "atrocious" when it came to the game's fundamentals. His ESPN colleague, Mel Kiper Jr., thinks Clowney has it all and should be the No. 1 pick.

"I don't know how you can take anybody over Clowney," Kiper said Wednesday. "He's a once-in-every-20-year guy."

Clowney tried to tune out the critics and concentrate on preparing for the NFL. His skills look as honed as ever after running a 4.53 second 40-yard dash time at the NFL combine in February, and putting on a show at South Carolina's pro day earlier this month. Among those attending were Texans coach Bill O'Brien, defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and general manager Rick Smith, all contemplating what to do with that top pick.

Is Clowney tired of effort questions?

"I've been tired of it, but you have to keep doing it," he said.

Gamecocks defensive coordinator Lorenzo Ward said Clowney has things to work on, such as improving his play against the run. But "the NFL is a passing league and that's what he is gifted at doing," Ward said. "It's not like he has to play run every down. He can chase the quarterback a lot and they can use him schematically to do that."

Ward believes Clowney earned some of the inquiries coming his way.

"I think there is a lot of good and bad to some of the things that happened to JD," he said. "I think some of the situations that happened, he put himself in."

For Carroll, Clowney's always taken in criticism and worked to disprove the harsh words.

"That's what motivates him and that will always carry him to be better," said Carroll, who's remained close to Clowney and will be in New York for the draft. "He'll succeed, just like he always had."

Kiper didn't see a lack of hustle, just a premier player double-teamed and chip-blocked by opponents to keep him from making plays.

"I don't see any (other) defensive end out there the last 20 years that's been blocked by three guys on a regular basis, and that's because he's a great player," Kiper said.

Clowney is ready to silence critics as an NFL star. He's draws strength from family and teammates when the questioning gets to be too much.

"They tell me, 'Don't worry about it,'" he said. "Just go out and keep working because it's going to get better."
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Old 04-27-2014   #2747
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I'd be shocked if Clowney wasn't the pick if they can't trade back.

I've said it before, I think Houston is the best organization for Clowney to thrive in. Put his locker right next to JJ's. Let it bloom!
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Old 04-27-2014   #2748
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
2013:
Kelcy Quarles - 9.5
Jadeveon Clowney - 3
Chaz Sutton - 3

2012:
Jadeveon Clowney - 13
Aldrick Fordham - 5.5
Chaz Sutton - 5
Kelcy Quarles - 3.5
Devin Taylor - 3

2011:
Melvin Ingram - 10
Jadeveon Clowney - 8
Devin Taylor - 6
Thanks. I did try to find them, but I only know espn, cbs, & yahoo. some of them didn't even have stats for Quarles in 2013. None of them had stats for him in 2012.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2749
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Thanks. I did try to find them, but I only know espn, cbs, & yahoo. some of them didn't even have stats for Quarles in 2013. None of them had stats for him in 2012.
Most sites don't track stats for defensive players. It can be tough to find stuff. I use the NCAA stat website and Sports-Reference.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2750
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Not a Clowney fan, but does the "his production dropped because he was playing to not get hurt" line have any traction? It has some merit on the face of it. He's going to be drafted very high in the 1st round unless he blows out a knee or has some other disasterous injury. Why go all out and risk it?
That is a distinct possibility, but it is not an argument that should support drafting him #1-

Why would a team, with the ability to select any amateur in the world to play for them the next five years willingly select a player whose desire to protect his financial future was consistently greater than his competitive fire during 13 football games? That does not sound like the kind of intangible deficit conducive to greatness in the NFL. Though, it does sound like a very good insurance adjuster- to manage risk/reward without being swayed by emotion or circumstance. If I was State Farm, I'd be very interested!
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Old 04-27-2014   #2751
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
2013:
Kelcy Quarles - 9.5
Jadeveon Clowney - 3
Chaz Sutton - 3

2012:
Jadeveon Clowney - 13
Aldrick Fordham - 5.5
Chaz Sutton - 5
Kelcy Quarles - 3.5
Devin Taylor - 3

2011:
Melvin Ingram - 10
Jadeveon Clowney - 8
Devin Taylor - 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Thanks. I did try to find them, but I only know espn, cbs, & yahoo. some of them didn't even have stats for Quarles in 2013. None of them had stats for him in 2012.
Quarles had 0 sacks in the 12 games he played in 2011.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2752
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
That is a distinct possibility, but it is not an argument that should support drafting him #1-

Why would a team, with the ability to select any amateur in the world to play for them the next five years willingly select a player whose desire to protect his financial future was consistently greater than his competitive fire during 13 football games? That does not sound like the kind of intangible deficit conducive to greatness in the NFL. Though, it does sound like a very good insurance adjuster- to manage risk/reward without being swayed by emotion or circumstance. If I was State Farm, I'd be very interested!
If JJ Watt holds out I guess he isn't a team guy.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2753
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
That is a distinct possibility, but it is not an argument that should support drafting him #1-

Why would a team, with the ability to select any amateur in the world to play for them the next five years willingly select a player whose desire to protect his financial future was consistently greater than his competitive fire during 13 football games? That does not sound like the kind of intangible deficit conducive to greatness in the NFL. Though, it does sound like a very good insurance adjuster- to manage risk/reward without being swayed by emotion or circumstance. If I was State Farm, I'd be very interested!
Since Clowney will almost certainly go in the top 5, several NFL GM's seem to agree with State Farm more than you.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2754
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
If JJ Watt holds out I guess he isn't a team guy.
Who said anything about a holdout?

I made no argument regarding Clowney not being a "team guy" (hardly my point). I don't think highly competitive people can suit up to play each week and consistently decide to pull back their effort- essentially allowing themselves to get beat. That is behavior that defies the human experience. In the midst of a competitive situation, competitors compete hard- regardless whether they intended to three days earlier... I do not believe Clowney held back effort. I am suggesting that, if he did (if that is your explanation for his poor production), then he is not someone worth drafting in the first round, because he does not have the competitive edge needed to succeed in the NFL.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2755
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Since Clowney will almost certainly go in the top 5, several NFL GM's seem to agree with State Farm more than you.
We will see where he is drafted. It is ironic, Steel, that you would use teams drafting in the top five as supportive evidence. Does that mean that when the Texans draft in the top five, whomever they take is a good pick and you would be foolish to disagree with them?

I would think you would have a lack of respect for teams drafting high in the draft... When did you develop such respect for the following organizations?:

Houston
St. Louis
Cleveland
Atlanta
Oakland
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Old 04-27-2014   #2756
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post

I would think you would have a lack of respect for teams drafting high in the draft... When did you develop such respect for the following organizations?:

Houston
St. Louis
Cleveland
Atlanta
Oakland
Only the ones who were 2-14. The others have good GMs.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2757
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
That is a distinct possibility, but it is not an argument that should support drafting him #1-

Why would a team, with the ability to select any amateur in the world to play for them the next five years willingly select a player whose desire to protect his financial future was consistently greater than his competitive fire during 13 football games? That does not sound like the kind of intangible deficit conducive to greatness in the NFL. Though, it does sound like a very good insurance adjuster- to manage risk/reward without being swayed by emotion or circumstance. If I was State Farm, I'd be very interested!
i missed your last post
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Last edited by mussop; 04-27-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2758
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
We will see where he is drafted. It is ironic, Steel, that you would use teams drafting in the top five as supportive evidence. Does that mean that when the Texans draft in the top five, whomever they take is a good pick and you would be foolish to disagree with them?

I would think you would have a lack of respect for teams drafting high in the draft... When did you develop such respect for the following organizations?:

Houston
St. Louis
Cleveland
Atlanta
Oakland
have more respect for them than I have for you.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2759
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Only the ones who were 2-14. The others have good GMs.
I do respect Dimitroff/Snead

The jury is still out on McKenzie/Farmer.

All of these guys are new to their GM gig. Smith not so much.
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Old 04-28-2014   #2760
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
2013:
Kelcy Quarles - 9.5
Jadeveon Clowney - 3
Chaz Sutton - 3

2012:
Jadeveon Clowney - 13
Aldrick Fordham - 5.5
Chaz Sutton - 5
Kelcy Quarles - 3.5
Devin Taylor - 3

2011:
Melvin Ingram - 10
Jadeveon Clowney - 8
Devin Taylor - 6
That's cool,but could you post manny lawson and demotra moore stats when they played on the other side with mario williams and von miller. I'm pretty sure none of those players accumulated more sacks or tackles when they played with those guys. I could be wrong though.
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