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Old 04-24-2014   #2681
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Savage said you cannot do it -- draft then trade -- under the new rules the way pick are slotted financially. So if there's going to be a trade, it will be before our 1st pick.
Its actually a lot easier to do it under the new rules vs the old rules. The smaller contracts really simplifies everything. The point system is even different now in terms of value. They could draft clowney and when its the falcons pick call them say which qb to draft. The terms will be discussed before the draft. It could be a 3rd this yr and next. Or maybe with the 3rd from falcons,they trade that to pats for mallett.
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Old 04-24-2014   #2682
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Okay, I see. So, they can't do it like NY and SD did then. That is silly. It should be able to go however they want it to go.
It would be Atl in this scenario that would have difficulties, being given the the money for only a 6th pick and having to pay a 1:1 pick. However if the give up other picks such as their 2nd and third then they would have that money to spend?
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Old 04-24-2014   #2683
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Its actually a lot easier to do it under the new rules vs the old rules. The smaller contracts really simplifies everything. The point system is even different now in terms of value. They could draft clowney and when its the falcons pick call them say which qb to draft. The terms will be discussed before the draft. It could be a 3rd this yr and next. Or maybe with the 3rd from falcons,they trade that to pats for mallett.
Making the money work is the problem.
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Old 04-24-2014   #2684
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Making the money work is the problem.
No its not. The contract aren't signed,players are just slotted. Look at what cam signed for vs aldon smith.i
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Old 04-24-2014   #2685
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I don't see it!!!!!! Sorry buddy I think you are looking to hard for something that isn't there. If that is loafing then even JJ Watt is a loafer.
The play at "around 1:40" is actually the play BEFORE the one you showed. He's initially doubled, sees the play going the other way, slows down, and then the running back hits him a second time.

To your first comment, I'm not drafting #70 or #99 with the #1 overall pick.

To the second, if you watch a little further, they show a replay where you can watch Clowney better. To my eye, he could have pursued more and harder.

If it was just one or two plays here or there -- especially at the end of the game -- I'd agree with you. But the fact is that it isn't. He could have shown more want-to on a lot of plays. If it were just he could have tried a little harder on this play or that play, that would be fine.

And that's why when you talk about high-motor guys, you don't talk about Jadeveon Clowney, that's why so many people are down on him because of his motor. High-motor guys pursue harder, try harder, work harder. That's not saying that high-motor guys don't have some plays where they couldn't have tried harder but most of the time, high-motor guys are chasing after the ball and continuing to play hard until the whistle blows.

You talk about JJ Watt but I've seen JJ Watt get blocked to the ground, pop back up, run full blast, and chase down a screen from behind, knocking the ball out of the guy's hands. I've seen QBs throw passes down field that JJ almost blocks and then JJ turns and runs and gets in on the tackle 20-30 yards downfield. The player that Jadeveon Clowney was during this game would never have done those things.
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Old 04-24-2014   #2686
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Bottom line for me on Clowney is

1. Is he willing to have the bone spur surgery directly after the draft.

2. Can Clowney teamed with Watt get the pass rush needed late in the 4th Qter when the Texans are holding a 3 point lead with 2-3 mins left. The Texans have never been able to consistently accomplish this since their inception. I think Clowney is this kind of differencemaker.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2687
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You talk about JJ Watt but I've seen JJ Watt get blocked to the ground, pop back up, run full blast, and chase down a screen from behind, knocking the ball out of the guy's hands. I've seen QBs throw passes down field that JJ almost blocks and then JJ turns and runs and gets in on the tackle 20-30 yards downfield. The player that Jadeveon Clowney was during this game would never have done those things.
And I've seen Clowney fall through a gap in the line and chase after the running back on all fours like a madman, and I've seen game tape of Watt slowing down in front of a pile. Going full-bore every single snap is a good way to not have energy in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: The play at the 2:51 mark for the video is a good example of this.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2688
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
No its not. The contract aren't signed,players are just slotted. Look at what cam signed for vs aldon smith.i
Cam signed for number 1 slot money, from where he was picked. Aldon for number 7. No big deal.

Cam wouldn't have wanted to settle for number 7 money if he had been traded to San Fran after having been picked first overall, though. But San Fran would have been married to number 7 slot money for him if they had already picked out of that slot.

Hence, making the money work is the problem if you're to make the trade after you make the pick.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2689
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Pull up ANY D-linemen video and you will see them fake hustling when the play clearly goes the other way. Even JJ does it. It's the smart thing to do.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2690
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
And I've seen Clowney fall through a gap in the line and chase after the running back on all fours like a madman, and I've seen game tape of Watt slowing down in front of a pile. Going full-bore every single snap is a good way to not have energy in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: The play at the 2:51 mark for the video is a good example of this.
I pointed out in that tape places where Clowney DOES make some outstanding plays. And I've said over and over again that he does.

But.

There's a reason why most people don't talk about Clowney having a high motor. That's not saying he's not a physical freak or that he can't make some amazing plays... when he chooses to. But he doesn't choose to nearly as much as JJ Watt does.

When Watt came out, EVERYONE talked about him as a high motor guy. Several people on this board were hoping we would choose him (I was not one of those because I didn't think they were really going to move Mario to OLB and didn't think we'd go that high on a 3-4 DE.) But I haven't heard anyone say Clowney is a high motor guy and I haven't seen a high motor guy with Clowney on any of his 2013 tape I've seen.

*** NOTE: I have to say it. I'm just joking. Don't take this the wrong way but... it's even harder to have energy in the 4th quarter when you come into the season out of shape. Sorry. It was just there. Had to take it.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2691
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

breaking news.
my sources indicate that clowney is having another workout session with the atlanta falcons. this all but cements my prediction that falcons and texans will swap picks.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2692
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thetexanator View Post
breaking news.
my sources indicate that clowney is having another workout session with the atlanta falcons. this all but cements my prediction that falcons and texans will swap picks.
If it's any reassurance to you CBS's Pete Prisco agrees

Link

Quote:
The Atlanta Falcons need a pass rusher. The best in this draft is South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.
That's why I think the Falcons will make a move to go up and get him, making a deal with the Houston Texans for the top overall pick. Houston can trade back to Atlanta's sixth spot and pick up extra picks.
There is growing talk in league circles that the Texans will move back. They could then either draft a top offensive lineman, maybe a quarterback or even a pass rusher (Khalil Mack maybe)?
So for this mock draft, which is my 10th, I will include that trade.
There are just two more weeks to go before the real draft. It feels like 10.
1. Atlanta Falcons (trade with Houston Texans): Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina: The Falcons need an elite pass rusher, so they make the big move.
2. St. Louis Rams -- Greg Robinson, T, Auburn: He's a difference maker on the offensive line. He could play left guard for a year.
3. Jacksonville Jaguars -- Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo: As Gus Bradley says, you can never have enough pass rushers. Mack can be special.
4. Cleveland Browns -- Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson: Speed kills. He has it. Some say he's the next Julio Jones.
5. Oakland Raiders -- Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M: It just makes sense. They need a quarterback, and he will liven things up.
6. Houston Texans (from Atlanta) -- Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida: They trade down and still land one of the top quarterbacks, plus extra picks.

Not sure how valid his predictions are since the idiot still has us going after Blake Bortles.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2693
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
If it's any reassurance to you CBS's Pete Prisco agrees

Link




Not sure how valid his predictions are since the idiot still has us going after Blake Bortles.
who else would be left at 6?
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Old 04-25-2014   #2694
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
If it's any reassurance to you CBS's Pete Prisco agrees

Link




Not sure how valid his predictions are since the idiot still has us going after Blake Bortles.
I rather have Bridgewater than Bortles.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2695
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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I rather have Bridgewater than Bortles.
im meh about both. would want to trade down again if its bridgewater, someone will be willing to jump for mike evans
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Old 04-25-2014   #2696
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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im meh about both. would want to trade down again if its bridgewater, someone will be willing to jump for mike evans
We could take that DT Aaron Donald that I keep hearing around here. If the Texans did that, I wouldn't be upset.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2697
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
If it's any reassurance to you CBS's Pete Prisco agrees

Link
The Atlanta Falcons need a pass rusher. The best in this draft is South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.
That's why I think the Falcons will make a move to go up and get him, making a deal with the Houston Texans for the top overall pick. Houston can trade back to Atlanta's sixth spot and pick up extra picks.
There is growing talk in league circles that the Texans will move back. They could then either draft a top offensive lineman, maybe a quarterback or even a pass rusher (Khalil Mack maybe)?
So for this mock draft, which is my 10th, I will include that trade.
There are just two more weeks to go before the real draft. It feels like 10.
1. Atlanta Falcons (trade with Houston Texans): Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina: The Falcons need an elite pass rusher, so they make the big move.
2. St. Louis Rams -- Greg Robinson, T, Auburn: He's a difference maker on the offensive line. He could play left guard for a year.
3. Jacksonville Jaguars -- Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo: As Gus Bradley says, you can never have enough pass rushers. Mack can be special.
4. Cleveland Browns -- Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson: Speed kills. He has it. Some say he's the next Julio Jones.
5. Oakland Raiders -- Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M: It just makes sense. They need a quarterback, and he will liven things up.
6. Houston Texans (from Atlanta) -- Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida: They trade down and still land one of the top quarterbacks, plus extra picks.



Not sure how valid his predictions are since the idiot still has us going after Blake Bortles.
Yea OK, but what's the consideration for our pick ? That's the question and does anybody ask it here ? And BTW, if anybody doubts who's the most highly valued prospect in this Draft, well I challenge you to step up and show any trade scenario with the Texans for their 1.1 that's being discussed that doesn't involve a team interested in landing Clowney.
But to the consideration/boot a trading partner would need to include with their first round pick to get our 1.1: I say the starting point is for likely candidates which would include teams with the 1.5 thru 1.9 would need to include their 2nd round pick. That may bring Rick Smith, or he may hold out for more ? Personally, I think I'd be inclined to do the deal, especially if it was Oakland or ATL.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2698
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I pointed out in that tape places where Clowney DOES make some outstanding plays. And I've said over and over again that he does.

But.

There's a reason why most people don't talk about Clowney having a high motor. That's not saying he's not a physical freak or that he can't make some amazing plays... when he chooses to. But he doesn't choose to nearly as much as JJ Watt does.

When Watt came out, EVERYONE talked about him as a high motor guy. Several people on this board were hoping we would choose him (I was not one of those because I didn't think they were really going to move Mario to OLB and didn't think we'd go that high on a 3-4 DE.) But I haven't heard anyone say Clowney is a high motor guy and I haven't seen a high motor guy with Clowney on any of his 2013 tape I've seen.
It's fine if that's what you believe (not being a high-motor'd as Watt doesn't make you have a low motor, and there are plenty of examples of Clowney 'making plays' with motor - not sure if there's a difference), but you shouldn't use examples of Clowney slowing down when he sees another teammate making a tackle as him having a 'low motor' when you see Watt doing the same thing in college.

Quote:
*** NOTE: I have to say it. I'm just joking. Don't take this the wrong way but... it's even harder to have energy in the 4th quarter when you come into the season out of shape. Sorry. It was just there. Had to take it.
Is this a reference to the UNC game where he was sick?
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Old 04-25-2014   #2699
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I'm not against a trade however if we are making a trade we better be getting the better half of the deal long term; i.e. picks and productivity from the picks. As much as I believe Clowney is going to be a stud I could be enticed to sell him to the highest bidder.
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Old 04-25-2014   #2700
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

to move to 6 id say we should get at least next years 1 and a 2nd this year. or id do 6 and a 2nd and a 3rd this year.
Otherwise, id keep clowney.
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