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Old 04-18-2014   #2481
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

If Twitter & football forums were face-to-face there would be dead people in NFL cities...

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Old 04-18-2014   #2482
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I don't think that Clowney will be able to ever match Aldon Smith's production on the field. My gut feeling tells me that Clowney will be much more similar to Smith in their off the field news.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2483
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Move it up to the day after the superbowl.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2484
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I don't think that Clowney will be able to ever match Aldon Smith's production on the field. My gut feeling tells me that Clowney will be much more similar to Smith in their off the field news.
Ok. I think he could exceed Aldon Smith's production on the field, and my gut feeling tells me that Clowney will not have any of the off-field issues like Aldon.

Personal opinion is great, but it doesnt mean anything.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2485
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Ok. I think he could exceed Aldon Smith's production on the field, and my gut feeling tells me that Clowney will not have any of the off-field issues like Aldon.

Personal opinion is great, but it doesnt mean anything.
Except that some personal opinions are more right than others. Like when Zierlein insinuated I was crazy when I said Kyle Long would go to more Pro Bowls than any of the OL drafted ahead of Long last year. See what I mean Vern?
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Old 04-18-2014   #2486
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Off the field and therefore not producing =/= on the field and not producing.

It's a cause for concern and investigation but it does not equate.
I honestly don't understand drafting a player with a history of injury and off the field issues because you are worried about another player's character and potential for injury.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2487
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Off the field and therefore not producing =/= on the field and not producing.

It's a cause for concern and investigation but it does not equate.
If you put it that way, I guess Watkin's 2012 would be more of a concern than Clowney's 2013.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2488
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Except that some personal opinions are more right than others. Like when Zierlein insinuated I was crazy when I said Kyle Long would go to more Pro Bowls than any of the OL drafted ahead of Long last year. See what I mean Vern?
I see what you mean.

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Old 04-18-2014   #2489
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
I honestly don't understand drafting a player with a history of injury and off the field issues because you are worried about another player's character and potential for injury.
OK. Then try understanding this...

You're not drafting a player with a history of injury and off the field issues because you're worried about another player's character and potential for injury. You're drafting one player over the other because you think the one player has a greater likelihood of a greater career than the other.

I think Watkins is the best player in this draft. I think he's going to have the best career out of any player in this draft. I think he's a hard worker. Has he had some bad games and a bad season? Yeah. But so did Andre Johnson. AJ never had as many TDs as Watkins had twice and AJ never had as many yards as Watkins had twice.

I think Robinson is the second best player in this draft. Does he have warts? Yeah, he does. At this point, he's more polished as a run blocker than as a pass blocker. But he's got the athletic ability to be able to turn into a straight-up beast.

I think Clowney is probably in at #3 or #4. Why? I don't know if he wants to play. If he does want to play, he's going to be a great player. But I have questions about his game. I have questions about what I see him doing on tape. But that doesn't mean he's not a great player with a bright future. BUT... even if Clowney wants to be a great player and plays up to his potential... I still think Watkins is going to have a better career. Being the 3rd best player in this draft isn't a bad thing, it's just not who I personally would pick with 1-1 if I had the choice.

The fact that you have these guys ranked differently than I do is OK. There's nothing wrong with that. A lot of different people are going to have these guys ranked differently and in the end, no one's going to know who had it right until their careers are over. I mean, Texian has Bortles ranked #1... and that's OK, too.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2490
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
If you put it that way, I guess Watkin's 2012 would be more of a concern than Clowney's 2013.
To you, maybe.

I'd be more concerned about Clowney's 2011 and 2013.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2491
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
To you, maybe.

I'd be more concerned about Clowney's 2011 and 2013.
2011? What was wrong with Clowney's 2011?

And yes, a drug suspension causes me more concern that bone spurs. No maybe about it.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2492
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
To you, maybe.

I'd be more concerned about Clowney's 2011 and 2013.
What was wrong with Clowney's 2011? Just curious; that's the first time I've heard someone bring it up.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2493
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
2011? What was wrong with Clowney's 2011?
What was great about it?

Quote:
And yes, a drug suspension causes me more concern that bone spurs. No maybe about it.
Sure, a drug suspension concerns me more than bone spurs. But that drug suspension concerns me a whole lot less than a guy who doesn't want to play football.

Of these two players, which one was the 4th true freshman in history to be named to the AP All-American team?
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Old 04-18-2014   #2494
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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What was wrong with Clowney's 2011? Just curious; that's the first time I've heard someone bring it up.
This is about Watkins vs. Clowney.

In Watkins' freshman year, he was a dominant player. Then he had a not great season. Then he had another dominant year that he capped off with winning the Orange Bowl MVP with 16 receptions for 227 yards.

In Clowney's freshman year, he got 8 sacks and he was ranked 8th in the SEC. He was a good player that year. Not a great one. He was 2nd team all-SEC. His second year, he was dominant. And then his third year, not so much.

So if you're looking at college careers (which Dan brought up), I say it goes to Watkins. He had 2 great years and one good one. Clowney had a great year, a good year, and a so-so year.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2495
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
What was great about it?
8 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 5 FFs is pretty good for a true freshman d-lineman that's still growing. What was your "concern" about that? And yes, Watkins was 1st team All American as a freshman, deservedly so. Clowney made it in his soph season. They're both great and have been since they arrived in college. I don't see Clowney's aversion to football. He's made some of the most violent hits I've ever seen. Made up by people that want him to fall in the draft, me thinks.

I think Watkins problems could be behind him, as well. But if I am going to weigh the concerns between the two, I'm much more concerned about Watkins. Ask Jacksonville about keeping their WR on the field.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2496
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I don't dislike Sammy Watkins, although to be honest I'd prefer a guy with a bigger frame, especially with letting Daniels walk. And I'll agree that he had a better collegiate career overall. I just think that we have 11 picks right now, WR is very deep this draft, and we need help at pass rush more than at wideout.

I'm also not trying to say Clowney is flawless or that anyone else is awful. I'm trying to point out that the criticisms being levied against Clowney can be used against a lot of other players too.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2497
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Ive seen some conflicting reports on his technique. If you feel like his technique is sound and this is the kind of production we're gonna get...raise the red flags.

However, if you match superior athleticism with being able to improve his technique/craft youd almost have to take him imo.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2498
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
8 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 5 FFs is pretty good for a true freshman d-lineman that's still growing. What was your "concern" about that?
If Dan wants to bring up College Career, then I consider Watkins' career to be more consistently dominant.

Quote:
And yes, Watkins was 1st team All American as a freshman, deservedly so. Clowney made it in his soph season. They're both great and have been since they arrived in college. I don't see Clowney's aversion to football. He's made some of the most violent hits I've ever seen. Made up by people that want him to fall in the draft, me thinks.

I think Watkins problems could be behind him, as well. But if I am going to weigh the concerns between the two, I'm much more concerned about Watkins. Ask Jacksonville about keeping their WR on the field.
Ask the Jets about keeping Vernon Gholston on the field or the Seahawks about keeping Aaron Curry on the field or how about we ask ourselves about keeping Sam Montgomery and Mario Williams on the field. These are all DE-type of players who've had similar questions to what Clowney has.

You're more concerned about Watkins' future; I'm more concerned about Clowney's.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2499
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
I don't dislike Sammy Watkins, although to be honest I'd prefer a guy with a bigger frame, especially with letting Daniels walk. And I'll agree that he had a better collegiate career overall. I just think that we have 11 picks right now, WR is very deep this draft, and we need help at pass rush more than at wideout.

I'm also not trying to say Clowney is flawless or that anyone else is awful. I'm trying to point out that the criticisms being levied against Clowney can be used against a lot of other players too.
Like I said, I like Clowney OK. He's not my preferred choice. I don't think there is anyone at the top of this draft that doesn't have warts and I personally prefer Watkins' warts to Clowney's warts.

When I look at the top of the first round, I want to get the player I think is going to have the biggest impact to our team and who's going to do the most to make us successful. For me, that's Watkins. I'm not expecting many people to share that feeling and I'm OK with that. I'm not expecting us to draft Watkins. That's just who I would draft if it were me.

A lot of really great pass-rushers have come in later rounds... Jared Allen, for example. So I'm not hung up on only getting a pass-rusher, a passer, or a pass-protector at 1-1 like a lot of people are.

And like I said, I expect us to draft Clowney and I'll get behind whoever it is we pick and I'll root for that player to be successful and for our FO to have made the right choice.

But that doesn't mean that Clowney is without warts and that those warts don't scare the crap out of me.
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Old 04-18-2014   #2500
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I don't want anyone who has a questionable motor. I've seen too many athletes across all sports completely fail because of it.

If he's gonna be great, let him be great for someone else.
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