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Old 04-09-2014   #2221
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
2008 Kansas City Chiefs
*Franchise Index
:*Previous Season
*/*Next Season

2-14-0, Finished 4th in*AFC West Division*
*·*2008 NFL Season Summary

*SRS: Total -9.2, Offense: -3.9, Defense: -5.3, SoS: 0.1, avg is 0.0.
Scored*291 points (18.2/g), 26th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 440 points (27.5/g), 29th.*
*Differential of -149 points (-9.3/g), 29th. *Expected W-L
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Old 04-09-2014   #2222
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
Crennel wasn't in KC until 2010.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2223
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
...NFLVerified account ‏@nfl

"I don't think it would be wise for ANY team to make that decision to take Johnny Manziel over Clowney." NFL.com VIDEO
Dude, you do realize they play a Johnny Manziel McDonald's commercial before that video plays, don't you?

JFF already has a McDonald's commercial!

Peyton Manning had to settle for pizza, and Tom Brady could only get an UGGs commercial. You must draft JFF!!! Why can't people get this, sheesh.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2224
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Dude, you do realize they play a Johnny Manziel McDonald's commercial before that video plays, don't you?

JFF already has a McDonald's commercial!

Peyton Manning had to settle for pizza, and Tom Brady could only get an UGGs commercial. You must draft JFF!!! Why can't people get this, sheesh.
Yeah, but he lost to some greasy, cold, nasty looking bacon in that commercial.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2225
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Crennel wasn't in KC until 2010.
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So I'm only going on Wiki. I dunno, maybe it's in error, wouldn't be the first time.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2226
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
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2005-2008
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Crennel
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So I'm only going on Wiki. I dunno, maybe it's in error, wouldn't be the first time.
Regardless, look at the starting lineups for KC on pro-football-reference and you will see when he was drafted KC was running a 4-3 and he played a 4-3 DT.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2227
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Regardless, look at the starting lineups for KC on pro-football-reference and you will see when he was drafted KC was running a 4-3 and he played a 4-3 DT.
So we have some inconsistencies here, right ? And to further complicate it, even if Dorsey played DT in a 4-3 at KC, it's not for sure that he was a 3-tech ?
Just like with Wade Phillips defenses, we learned that down lineman in a 3-4 might be one-gappers. So who's to say, maybe Dorsey did play DT in a 4-3 at KC but as the 2-gap NT ? That's the kinda thing that Carroll ran at USC and now in Seattle, and I'd be surprised if he is the only one who did.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2228
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
So we have some inconsistencies here, right ?
No we have one outlying source and it is internally inconsistent. Here is the wiki page for the Cleveland Browns head coaches - Link RC was the Browns head coach from 2005-8. Give it up. There is no if on RC being at KC when Dorsey was drafted or whether they ran a 4-3. As you say, I at least, do not know what Dorsey's assignment was as a 4-3 DT.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2229
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
2005-2008
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(Defensive Coordinator)
2010-2012
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Crennel
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So I'm only going on Wiki. I dunno, maybe it's in error, wouldn't be the first time.
From 2005-2008, he was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. In 2010, he joined the Chiefs as the Defensive Coordinator.

Check profootballreference.com.

I just checked wikipedia. It's all kinds of messed up.
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Old 04-10-2014   #2230
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris
Quote:
So... lets stop talking about Clowney dropping y'all. RT @PFF_Pete: Hali dropped into coverage on 8.6% of his snaps under Crennel in 2012.
Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete
Quote:
A 3-4 team cares more about the 50 snaps per game when Clowney's attacking than the 5 snaps when he's dropping.

Tamba Hali dropped into coverage on 8.6% of his snaps under Crennel in 2012. Clowney would be fine in a 3-4.
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Old 04-11-2014   #2231
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Came across this article, not much but still Texans related:
Clowney? Mack? QB? Texans assistant tackles the obvious question on NFL Draft; LINK

Quote:
"He's definitely a heck of a talent," Kollar said of Clowney. "Obviously, he didn't have the year that he would have liked to statistic-wise this year like he did the year before. You still see it. He got double-teamed a lot and everything else, but without a doubt, he's still a heck of a football player.

"And the same with that Khalil Mack. I mean he is something when you end up watching him. I don't know if you'd say he's a dark horse, but you really hadn't heard that much about him earlier in the year. As the year progressed, he just kept playing better and better and has really put himself in a good position right now."
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Old 04-11-2014   #2232
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Watt and Kollar create best fit for Clowney; LINK

Quote:
“Oh man, it would make our jobs a lot easier,” Joseph told CSN Houston after Clowney's pro day earlier in April. “It would make opposing quarterbacks think about the rush with those two guys out there on defense. And with that being said, quarterbacks can’t hold the ball forever and there’s a clock ticking in their head at the same time.

“Anytime you have a chance to throw those two guys together on a defense and throw in guys like (Brian) Cushing and other playmakers at other positions could be big for a team and for a defense.”

Clowney said after his pro day last week he thinks he can learn a lot from Watt. Joseph reiterated that it would be a perfect fit for Clowney to come to Houston and spend every day with the former Defensive Player of the Year.

“You go and ask five NFL players who the best defensive player in football is and I’m sure J.J. Watt will be three of the five,” Joseph said. “Anytime you have that beside you’re name and the work ethic that J.J. has, it brings instant credibility to the locker room and it rubs off on other guys. And comparing him with Clowney I think it would rub off on him and they would push each other competing.”

Watt wouldn’t be the only one looking over Clowney. Defensive line coach Bill Kollar was the only member of Gary Kubiak’s staff that was retained by Bill O’Brien. Having a position coach with Kollar's experience and personality could be a perfect fit for some one like Clowney.

“Having a guy like (Bill) Kollar, a guy that doesn’t care about the name on the back of the jersey and only sees one way to play the game and that’s hard,” Joseph said. “He’s another first-round pick in himself and been around the league for 30 years. I don’t think he could walk into a better situation all in all. Kollar is a great guy on and off the field, but he has a high demand and he wants to push you."
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Old 04-11-2014   #2233
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Came across this article, not much but still Texans related:
Clowney? Mack? QB? Texans assistant tackles the obvious question on NFL Draft; LINK
"Not much"? Well, for one, these comments are from an assistant coach with the Texans. The second thing, this is the first time I've actually heard, at this level, Mack and Clowney both mentioned when asked who might be the first pick. To my knowledge, Mack has pretty much been off the radar with the organization. Is this silent treatment note worthy?
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Old 04-11-2014   #2234
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I'm not opposed to clowney per se,there are a lot of things to like about him. Just as people in this thread talk value and maximizing it. Is it better to get the the rusher,then the qb or vice versa? We've seen it work mostly doing the high qb 1st,then the pass rusher 2nd. In the case everyone likes to bring up seattle,they didn't do it any way. Wilson was a 3rd rd pick,but they don't have a high pick on the dl. They do more of a wave rush. If we were to look at the top 5 sack teams,if that's what we're talking about, how many have 2 top 10 drafted rushers? Bills,saints,panthers,seahawks,and I'm missing someone,i think kc,look at who got to the rusher and where they were drafted. The bills had 57 sacks led by mario williams and their defense sucked.

This is me,is clowney a better pass rusher than dee ford,marcus smith,or attouchau? I didn't say athlete,I said ability. If the texans think he's a guy who can constantly beat single blocks and play to his athletic talents,then they should draft him. If they think he has too many inconsistencies in his game then they should take mack or the highest rated qb on their board and come back and get one of those other 3 in the 2nd.
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Old 04-11-2014   #2235
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Could someone explain to me what it is about Clowney that makes him less of a risk than any of the other top players? Yes, he is a guy with loads of athletic ability, but even the Clowney homers have got to be willing to admit that he didn't work his way to the top of the draft board by his polished pass rushing skills. He is not a complete player by any means, so what convinces you that he is the next Bruce Smith?
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Old 04-11-2014   #2236
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Could someone explain to me what it is about Clowney that makes him less of a risk than any of the other top players? Yes, he is a guy with loads of athletic ability, but even the Clowney homers have got to be willing to admit that he didn't work his way to the top of the draft board by his polished pass rushing skills. He is not a complete player by any means, so what convinces you that he is the next Bruce Smith?
Exactly, everybody said that Aundray Bruce was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And Bruce had better supporting numbers than Clowney.
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Old 04-11-2014   #2237
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Could someone explain to me what it is about Clowney that makes him less of a risk than any of the other top players? Yes, he is a guy with loads of athletic ability, but even the Clowney homers have got to be willing to admit that he didn't work his way to the top of the draft board by his polished pass rushing skills. He is not a complete player by any means, so what convinces you that he is the next Bruce Smith?
I'm not one of the Clowney guys but I feel like he's MORE of a risk than most guys. OTOH, he's got a very, very high ceiling and in the right situation with the right motivation, he could be a beast.

If the question is if you draft THE pass rusher or THE quarterback, then I think you always draft THE quarterback. But if the question is whether you draft THE pass rusher or a quarterback, then you take THE pass rusher.

My problem with this draft is that I'm not excited about any of the QBs available. Not at 1-1. If I'm choosing between Clowney and the entire QB field of this draft class, I'm choosing Clowney.
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Old 04-11-2014   #2238
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Exactly, everybody said that Aundray Bruce was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And Bruce had better supporting numbers than Clowney.
FWIW JJ Watt had a 4 and a 7 sack season in 2009 & 2010 respectively @ Wisconsin before coming to the NFL, but then later lead the league in 2012 with 20.
I dunno much about Bruce, just what I learned about him from googling him and then reading about him but I've watched tape of Clowney and he's such an incredible natural athlete with the kind of explosiveness, the "quick twitch" that I never saw in Mario. And he's a well-rounded defender, the guy can set the edge, he can stuff the rushing plays. What can I tell you man, he's just a rare talent.
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Old 04-11-2014   #2239
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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FWIW JJ Watt had a 4 and a 7 sack season in 2009 & 2010 respectively @ Wisconsin before coming to the NFL, but then later lead the league in 2012 with 20.
As was brought up last time you made this argument, JJ switched from TE to DE so had 4.5 sacks in his first year at DE along with 15.5 TFL and then improved to 7 sacks and 21 TFL. So he was learning a new position and improving at it. Neither of those things can be said about Clowney. Clowney had more TFL as a freshman than as a junior.

This looks like a 1.1

Freshman - 3 sacks, 10.5 TFL
Sophomore - 8 sacks, 12 TFL
Junior - 13 sacks, 23.5 TFL

This looks like a problem

Freshman - 8 sacks, 12 TFL
Sophomore - 13 sacks, 23.5 TFL
Junior - 3 sacks, 10.5 TFL
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Old 04-11-2014   #2240
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Clowney is probably hurt somewhat because of what Mario Williams did or didn't do, its hard for fans to forget. Same with Carr, Texans forced QB #1 overall that blew up then went journeyman route & that didn't work so good either. It's hard to seperate past expereinces with these marqee players/positions when you see the commonality between the prospects. However, Clowney is a pure pass rusher, just let him chase whoever with Watt coming other side or up the middle that is a different story a pathway for success whether some of us care to admit it or not
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