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Old 04-07-2014   #2201
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Did you take your brain out to play with it .... and lose it ?!
No, but I didn't say what I meant very well. If the Texans draft Clowney in the first round, he will probably not be thought of as an OLB. He will be a DE. If he is drafted as a OLB he will spend his first year as a sub.

He will be probably thought of a replacement for B Reed, when the team may cut Reed loose as a FE, as they did when they drafted Mercilous as a replacement for Connor.

Last edited by Lambert; 04-07-2014 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 04-07-2014   #2202
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Sack Study
*Right off the bat, Clowney’s 2012 sack campaign looks like it received the most total help from his teammates. A whopping 69% of his sacks came with pressure from a teammate, notably current NFL player*Devin Taylor
That's from the guy who does the metrics on players
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Old 04-07-2014   #2203
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Lambert View Post
No, but I didn't say what I meant very well. If the Texans draft Clowney in the first round, he will probably not be thought of as an OLB. He will be a DE. If he is drafted as a OLB he will spend his first year as a sub.

He will be probably thought of a replacement for B Reed, when the team may cut Reed loose as a FE, as they did when they drafted Mercilous as a replacement for Connor.
They aren't going to take clowney #1 overall and have him be brooks reed's sub. Not happening.

And the regime that drafted Mercilus to sit and learn isn't here anymore. The "they" that did that is no longer relevant.
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Old 04-07-2014   #2204
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
"As good or better an athlete than Mario Williams," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "Reminds me of Bruce Smith back in his heyday. As good a natural athlete that has ever played this position.
"From a god-given, natural physical ability (standpoint), he's got more than anybody that's ever played defensive end."
***
"He worked with two other defensive linemen who were both heavily winded by the end of it," Mayock said. "Clowney was fine. Great shape. Great athlete. Dominant performance."
***
Said Mayock: "After seeing all the tape and seeing him in person by watching his pro day and seeing him in person at the combine -- at the end of the day he's the most talented player in the entire draft."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...of-bruce-smith
*****
And at the end of the day, did Mayoc recommend the Texans take Clowney with their 1.1 ? No he did not, but I think he did endorse Clowney as an elite player, an elite pass-rusher.
But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think or what you think, it only matters what OB & Smith & the ownership think.
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Old 04-07-2014   #2205
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Getting extra attention 60% of the time and while watching how many time when they weren't giving extra attention to Clowney did they trap/run/screen away from him?

Using your numbers Clowney /Watt seems like a pretty formidable duo.
I get the feeling he will be a Mario type player. Consistently good, but not consistently great. But I'm ok with that level as a downside.

Pairing him with Watt, though, could make him a monster.
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Old 04-07-2014   #2206
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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“He asks me (about the Texans) every day,” [DJ] Swearinger said at an NFL Play60 event at Harvard Elementary School in Houston on Thursday. “He asks me every day. Like ‘Bro, what’s the word?’
http://bit.ly/1eXZmv6

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— Jadeveon Clowney stole the show this week with an exceptional pro day, but let's put that into perspective. It was a pro day. Yes, his athleticism is jaw-dropping, but so was his game film. Clowney was a lock to go top three last week, and he still is this week after the pro day.
Quote:
What type of defense does Clowney fit in? I asked four defensive coaches that question this week.

Each replied with colorful language indicating you find a way to fit him in your defense. One went as far as to call Clowney the "best defensive end I've seen."
http://bit.ly/1hV7M81
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Old 04-09-2014   #2207
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Chiefs DE Glenn Dorsey Viewed As NFL Draft Cautionary*Tale
By*Joel Thorman
**@JoelThorman
*on Apr 13 2010, 4:45p*51

When the*Kansas City Chiefs
*used the fifth overall pick in the 2008 NFL draft on LSU DE*Glenn Dorsey
, a lot of folks were excited around town. Dorsey was called by quite a few NFL analysts as the best and safest player in the draft. For the Chiefs, they finally got their defensive lineman after years (and years...and years) of trying.
Fast forward two years later and Dorsey isn't heard from very often.
Does that mean he's doing a bad job? No, not at all. In fact, I'd argue that he was one of the positives to come out of the 2009 season. A 3-4 defensive end shouldn't necessarily be heard from that often. Their job is to take up blockers to provide rushing lanes for the linebackers. It's not necessarily to create sacks (although that would be a pleasant byproduct).
However, the national media is viewing it differently.
To them
, Dorsey is a cautionary tale on drafting defensive lineman high in the draft. Here's an article from the*"Detroit Free Press*"quoting Jon Gruden:
Jon Gruden brought up a few names. One was Dewayne Robertson, whom the*Jets
*drafted fourth overall in 2003. Another was Glenn Dorsey, whom the Chiefs drafted fifth overall in '08.
"I don't think people have seen or heard from GlennDorsey," Gruden said today in a media conference call.
Gruden's broader point was that teams should be careful of labeling defensive linemen as "can't miss" but I thought this was an interesting look at what the position change has done for Dorsey's perception.
Even though I think most of us would agree he's a solid player, the 'un-sexy' position of a 3-4 defensive end has caused folks to virtually forget he was in the league.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2208
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Chiefs DE Glenn Dorsey Viewed As NFL Draft Cautionary*Tale
By*Joel Thorman
**@JoelThorman
*on Apr 13 2010, 4:45p*51

When the*Kansas City Chiefs
*used the fifth overall pick in the 2008 NFL draft on LSU DE*Glenn Dorsey
, a lot of folks were excited around town. Dorsey was called by quite a few NFL analysts as the best and safest player in the draft. For the Chiefs, they finally got their defensive lineman after years (and years...and years) of trying.
Fast forward two years later and Dorsey isn't heard from very often.
Does that mean he's doing a bad job? No, not at all. In fact, I'd argue that he was one of the positives to come out of the 2009 season. A 3-4 defensive end shouldn't necessarily be heard from that often. Their job is to take up blockers to provide rushing lanes for the linebackers. It's not necessarily to create sacks (although that would be a pleasant byproduct).
However, the national media is viewing it differently.
To them
, Dorsey is a cautionary tale on drafting defensive lineman high in the draft. Here's an article from the*"Detroit Free Press*"quoting Jon Gruden:
Jon Gruden brought up a few names. One was Dewayne Robertson, whom the*Jets
*drafted fourth overall in 2003. Another was Glenn Dorsey, whom the Chiefs drafted fifth overall in '08.
"I don't think people have seen or heard from GlennDorsey," Gruden said today in a media conference call.
Gruden's broader point was that teams should be careful of labeling defensive linemen as "can't miss" but I thought this was an interesting look at what the position change has done for Dorsey's perception.
Even though I think most of us would agree he's a solid player, the 'un-sexy' position of a 3-4 defensive end has caused folks to virtually forget he was in the league.
Dorsey was clearly wasted in a 3-4 type lineman role as a 2-gapper when as a top pick out of LSU he was the 3-tech Warren Sapp type DLineman who would have have provided as a 1-gap guy a strong inside pass-rush playing DT in a 4-3. And I think Crennel was with the Chiefs then, so this is most def a cautionary tale about mis deploying a gifted defensive lineman.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2209
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Dorsey was clearly wasted in a 3-4 type lineman role as a 2-gapper when as a top pick out of LSU he was the 3-tech Warren Sapp type DLineman who would have have provided as a 1-gap guy a strong inside pass-rush playing DT in a 4-3. And I think Crennel was with the Chiefs then, so this is most def a cautionary tale about mis deploying a gifted defensive lineman.
Which is why a lot of people fear going to Crennel's 3-4 is not such a good thing for Jj Watt.

I don't know why this is in the Clowney thread though, no one can honestly think Jd will be playing DE in a 3-4. He's most definitely going to be Romeo's Elephant, which is why you hear the name & comparison to Willie McGinnist so much.

Dorsey went from a glamour position to a non-sexy position. Clowney is going to a more prestigious position.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2210
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Dorsey was clearly wasted in a 3-4 type lineman role as a 2-gapper when as a top pick out of LSU he was the 3-tech Warren Sapp type DLineman who would have have provided as a 1-gap guy a strong inside pass-rush playing DT in a 4-3. And I think Crennel was with the Chiefs then, so this is most def a cautionary tale about mis deploying a gifted defensive lineman.
Eh, great players make plays regardless of the scheme. i just think in the end, Dorsey has never been able to live up to the potential everyone thought he had coming out.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2211
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I think I've finally stopped flip flopping. Well for today at least. I think we should take the best QB available but don't think Johnny Bortleswater will be there when we pick at 1-1. So we should take Clowney. Then I'd try to trade him on the condition that one of the second tier QBs (Manziel, Bortles & Bridgewater) are there when the pick we would get comes up.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2212
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

They will be playing a lot of hybrid 4-3/3-4 defenses on 2nd &3rd and longs. I'm also sure Clowney/Watt will be put in premium positions to rush the passer on these downs.

I trust that a vet DC like RC knows what he's doing. I don't get why people dpnt trust him. If Watt's sacks go down but the Texans win more that's all that really matters.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2213
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post

I trust that a vet DC like RC knows what he's doing. I don't get why people dpnt trust him. If Watt's sacks go down but the Texans win more that's all that really matters.
& we won't have to pay him $100M either.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2214
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Eh, great players make plays regardless of the scheme. i just think in the end, Dorsey has never been able to live up to the potential everyone thought he had coming out.
Would you for example draft a stud WR out of the U like Andre Johnson, have him gain 20 pounds, and play him in the NFL as primarily an in-line TE ?
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Old 04-09-2014   #2215
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

"I have heard the criticism about his lack of productivity... He has tremendous agility and quickness. He was extremely productive in the ACC and rose to the occasion against quality competition. His production did tail off last season, so that is a concern. He didn't pick up the pace and dominate down the stretch. But his prior dominance was already there. He stayed No. 1 on my draft board all year because he had dominated already... John Fox had Michael Strahan in New York and knows the value of a dominant defensive end. He could be an outstanding and complete performer who could develop into a Bruce Smith-like force in a few years, hitting quarterbacks on a regular basis."




The "he" Kiper describes above is Julius Peppers.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2216
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Would you for example draft a stud WR out of the U like Andre Johnson, have him gain 20 pounds, and play him in the NFL as primarily an in-line TE ?
Of course not...but that's not what KC did though. They didn't switch his position entirely as in your example. They just had him do something else in the same position...something that he wasn't a good fit for..but the same position group no less.

A more apt comparison would be making AJ perhaps a slot WR or a stretch TE. In both cases, I think AJ would still be a problem for opposing defenses b/c at the end of the day he's a playmaker & he would make enough plays at least to warrant us re-upping his rookie contract.

Not the case with Dorsey, who has yet to do anything close to what he projected to do & KC basically just moved on from him after his rookie contract ran out & drafted another guy to do what he wasn't doing.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2217
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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A more apt comparison would be making AJ perhaps a slot WR or a stretch TE. In both cases, I think AJ would still be a problem for opposing defenses b/c at the end of the day he's a playmaker & he would make enough plays at least to warrant us re-upping his rookie contract.
This Hall of Fame TE thinks AJ would have done just fine.

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Old 04-09-2014   #2218
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Dorsey wasn't playing well when he was in the 4-3 as a 3 tech under Herm Edwards. I posted that article because there is no safe prospect no matter how people try to spin it. There is nothing safe about a 21 yr old kid. The Chiefs,like a lot of organization could've opted for flacco or someone else. Just as the dolphins recognized there wasn't much difference between ryan and henne. That sounds good until u see 1 guy as pro bowl caliber and the other is a journeyman.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2219
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I've warmed up to Clowney as the process has gone on. He has Shawne Merriman during his steroid days level of potential.

I still don't think there is a single elite prospect in this class, but he's a guy who would at least get consideration for top 5 in a strong draft (e.g. 2006). Everyone else being talked about as a potential #1 is what you would expect to pick in the 8-16 range in a good draft.
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Old 04-09-2014   #2220
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Dorsey wasn't playing well when he was in the 4-3 as a 3 tech under Herm Edwards. I posted that article because there is no safe prospect no matter how people try to spin it. There is nothing safe about a 21 yr old kid. The Chiefs,like a lot of organization could've opted for flacco or someone else. Just as the dolphins recognized there wasn't much difference between ryan and henne. That sounds good until u see 1 guy as pro bowl caliber and the other is a journeyman.
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
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