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Old 04-03-2014   #2021
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
What does that have to do with the flow of that conversation?

Focus man.
Simple math ... man.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2022
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
I've come to think I'm hoping that if they don't take watkins, they can trade down and take Nix. NT is hardest to fill hole on the team imo. And biggest drop off of talent to what you can get in round 2.
Not even close, I don't think. It's one of the easiest.

IT's maybe the hardest to fill with a star, I'll give you that. Athletically gifted men at that size is a rarity, even rarer than the once in a lifetime Clowney.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2023
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
The Bears built a defense that Rex Grossman managed to ride to a Super Bowl appearance. Now I don't think we're going to get very far with either Fitz or Keenum at this point but Rex-friggin-Grossman got to a Super Bowl so.....

I want to see Watt, Clowney, and Cushing on the field at the same time. I want to see what Brooks Reed can do at ILB next to Cushing and I want to see what Mercilus can do while everyone is trying to work out how they can stop Watt & Clowney.

I think the offense isn't going to have to average a lot of points to keep us in games with that kind of defense on the field (in theory at least).

Great days I tell ya. Great days.
The Bears also had Hester, who pretty much won them a few games by himself that year. I'm pretty sure Sexy Rexy was a better QB than Fitz (certainly better than Keenum).

I think the Seahawks are making people look way too much at the outlier. In general, the NFL is totally geared to the offense. You can win with a terrible defense and a good offense. You won't be winning anything with a garbage QB and a stud defense any more. Russell Wilson isn't a superstar, but he's not a bag of crap either.

The only three logical picks at No. 1 are Clowney, Bridgewater, or Manziel. I'd probably go Clowney out of that group, but I would be hoping that one of the great QB prospects would fall in range for a trade up
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Old 04-03-2014   #2024
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Not even close, I don't think. It's one of the easiest.

IT's maybe the hardest to fill with a star, I'll give you that. Athletically gifted men at that size is a rarity, even rarer than the once in a lifetime Clowney.
That was my point, not just filling with a body but with someone that could be a star. I don't know if Nix is that guy, but it is a for sure need.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2025
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
I've posted this a few times but either people don't believe me or didn't read it, but When OB was talking about watt he said he'll be lined up as a 4tech (not traditional 5tech) and be one gaping most of the time. He said he's going to let watt do what he does best. GEt up field and get after it. Then he also made the 70% nickel comment. (Maybe a slight exaggeration, maybe based on us specifically vs teams we play, I don't know)

But assuming OB is being honest, I don't believe Clowney would be playing a traditional 34 role nearly as much as people think. I think the team would do for him like they claim to be doing for watt. Using guys at what they do best. They've also made multiple mentions of having a versatile scheme. Changing it based on the opponent. Obrien said he plans on moving watt around quite a bit.

So personally, I don't have this view of this fixed traditional 34.

I don't think we're going to take clowney anyways...I think we'll trade back with someone who wants him...

But regardless, OB himself said watt will play a lot of 4 tech and be one tapping and we'll be in nickel 70% of the time. That doesn't sound like a defense that would use clowney in a way that didn't best suit his skills.

Sounds more like a more flexible version of wades defense, tbh.
Great post

People need to go back and look at some old Pats film of McGinest if they want to see how Clowney might be used.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2026
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
The Bears also had Hester, who pretty much won them a few games by himself that year. I'm pretty sure Sexy Rexy was a better QB than Fitz (certainly better than Keenum).

I think the Seahawks are making people look way too much at the outlier. In general, the NFL is totally geared to the offense. You can win with a terrible defense and a good offense. You won't be winning anything with a garbage QB and a stud defense any more. Russell Wilson isn't a superstar, but he's not a bag of crap either.

The only three logical picks at No. 1 are Clowney, Bridgewater, or Manziel. I'd probably go Clowney out of that group, but I would be hoping that one of the great QB prospects would fall in range for a trade up
I'd go Clowney too because I don't see a "great" QB prospect out there. Just a bunch of guys who I think are fairly interchangeable and who really belong in that range from the second half of the first round to the top of the third. The top guys are Clowney, Robinson, and Watkins to my mind. I'm told (repeatedly) that we don't take a RT at 1-1 and that we already have Brown at LT so Robinson would be a no-go. Watkins is interesting but we have AJ and Hopkins. How many 1's does a team need at WR? <Sit down Matt Millen, nobody cares what you think!> So that leaves Clowney and conversely I think his addition to the defense would do a lot more for that side of the ball than adding another WR, an elite RT, or a "good" rookie QB who might turn out or might not do ****. I wouldn't draft Bridgewater or Manziel first overall. No way in hell. The only three logical picks at No. 1 are Clowney, Robinson, and Watkins.

The only guy who appears on both of our lists is Clowney.

Get the QB at #33 if one falls that we like. If not roll with who we got and try again next year. Only thing that makes sense to me.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2027
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Take a king's ransom for Clowney or take Clowney.

Win-Win.

EDIT: BoB said we're going to be in Nickel/Dime about 70% of the time so technically Clowney will be playing as a DE for us. Perfect. 29.9% of the time he'll be standing up while rushing the passer and .1% of the time, he'll be dropping back in coverage.
^^^^
This
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Old 04-03-2014   #2028
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Great post

People need to go back and look at some old Pats film of McGinest if they want to see how Clowney might be used.

So for the 3rd time in this thread...

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
How well does clowney compare to willie mcginist? He WONT be a 3-4 de for crennel.
As soon as we knew RAC was the D cord this became a relevant question.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2029
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Clowney, then what?

Jimmy Garoppolo. That's where I'm at.
This is where I've been for months as my ideal situation.

We cannot generate a pass rush to save our lives; Clowney instantly makes our D better. We also did not have consistent play at QB. Will a rookie QB from the AAC stabilize the position? (Feel free to pick between "the tall guy" or "the skinny guy") If QB at 2-1 is the play, the pressure on him is immensely less than at 1-1. He could sit most of the year behind Fitz and Keenum and learn...pressure free. 1-1 QB doesn't get that luxury.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2030
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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With Carr being there? Yeah I know it wont happen ... but one can dream.
I guess a nightmare is a dream.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2031
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Bortles is probably the only prospect that doesn't excite me.

I would be excited about everyone else that's been mention.

My ideal scenario would be get a kings ransom for Clowney...move back a bit, grab Teddy...have other picks to where we could jump into the bottom of the first for another top prospect like Nix...
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Old 04-03-2014   #2032
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I am liking this scenarios as time goes on. Rebuilding the Texans using the Seahawks model is a successful strategy. Build a suffocating defense to help out the average to above average offense and let the chips fall...

Clowney and Watt could be a devastating scenario and Clowney's work ethic is something I wouldn't question, especially with Watt there.


McCarron, Murray, Savage in the later rounds, let them sit behind FitzMagic, learn the system and proceed and planned...


Defiantly gonna be an interesting year...
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Old 04-03-2014   #2033
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
OH, do you mean, Dumb It Down?

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Personally, I would rather have Bortles at 1.1 and Attaochu at 2.1 for two reason: A. The most important position on any football team is the QB and the Texans DO NOT have a true starting QB. B. IMHO Attaochu will have more successful NFL career than Clowney. IMHO I think Clowney's career will be closer to Aundray Bruce (played 10 years but no Pro Bowls) and Attaochu will be closer to Orakpo.
I get where you're coming from, but disagree with you.

If Clowney is 1-1 and say Bortles fell to 7, would you do an Atlanta type (Julio Jones trade to move up and pick Bortles?

If so this would solidify the 3 most important positions on the team. QB/Pass rusher/LT. After studying Bortles I would have to consider trading up.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2034
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'd go Clowney too because I don't see a "great" QB prospect out there. Just a bunch of guys who I think are fairly interchangeable and who really belong in that range from the second half of the first round to the top of the third. The top guys are Clowney, Robinson, and Watkins to my mind. I'm told (repeatedly) that we don't take a RT at 1-1 and that we already have Brown at LT so Robinson would be a no-go. Watkins is interesting but we have AJ and Hopkins. How many 1's does a team need at WR? <Sit down Matt Millen, nobody cares what you think!> So that leaves Clowney and conversely I think his addition to the defense would do a lot more for that side of the ball than adding another WR, an elite RT, or a "good" rookie QB who might turn out or might not do ****. I wouldn't draft Bridgewater or Manziel first overall. No way in hell. The only three logical picks at No. 1 are Clowney, Robinson, and Watkins.

The only guy who appears on both of our lists is Clowney.

Get the QB at #33 if one falls that we like. If not roll with who we got and try again next year. Only thing that makes sense to me.
I am of the belief that a "good" QB does more for the team than two or three great defensive players, which is where we differ.

As far as WRs go, there is going to be a beast sitting at 33. Either Marquis Lee or Mike Evans may be dropping there. Whether you go QB or Clowney in the first, that would be damn hard to pass up.

Wouldn't waste a pick on AJ McCarron, let alone No. 33. Would this team take Derrick Carr if he were there?
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Old 04-03-2014   #2035
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
I guess you go Clowney if you expect either Manziel or Bridgewater to slip.

Really don't want to watch this team with bums like Fitz or Keenum under center. Neither would I want to watch the team go 6-10 with third-tier rookies like McCarron or Mettenburger.

Wouldn't mind Derrick Carr at 33, but I know the fan base would crap themselves with furious anger if that happened.
This just in

The Texans are probably going to go 6-10/7-9 regardless of who's drafted at QB next season. This is the price that is being paid for not firing Kubiak after the 2010 season. The winning seasons were built on a straw house.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2036
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'd go Clowney too because I don't see a "great" QB prospect out there. Just a bunch of guys who I think are fairly interchangeable and who really belong in that range from the second half of the first round to the top of the third. The top guys are Clowney, Robinson, and Watkins to my mind. I'm told (repeatedly) that we don't take a RT at 1-1 and that we already have Brown at LT so Robinson would be a no-go. Watkins is interesting but we have AJ and Hopkins. How many 1's does a team need at WR? <Sit down Matt Millen, nobody cares what you think!> So that leaves Clowney and conversely I think his addition to the defense would do a lot more for that side of the ball than adding another WR, an elite RT, or a "good" rookie QB who might turn out or might not do ****. I wouldn't draft Bridgewater or Manziel first overall. No way in hell. The only three logical picks at No. 1 are Clowney, Robinson, and Watkins.

The only guy who appears on both of our lists is Clowney.

Get the QB at #33 if one falls that we like. If not roll with who we got and try again next year. Only thing that makes sense to me.
Are you willing to go Clowney 1.1 and then:

trade #33 and 3rd round pick for Bortles/Manziel at roughly #20 overall?
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Old 04-03-2014   #2037
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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So for the 3rd time in this thread...

As soon as we knew RAC was the D cord this became a relevant question.
Download ESPN Radio App and go in later today to find ON Demand "The Herd" with Colin Cowherd and select the hour with Tedy Bruschi as a guest. He explains it there, played for Crennel in it at NE. Bruschi was at the pro day.

Unless you can find another way to access "The Herd" in a podcast somewhere else...? Not "Thundering Herd", that's different.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2038
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Clowney, then what?

Jimmy Garoppolo. That's where I'm at.
Me too

Aaron Murray or Brett Smith would be fine with me also.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2039
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
OH, do you mean, Dumb It Down?

Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout


Personally, I would rather have Bortles at 1.1 and Attaochu at 2.1 for two reason: A. The most important position on any football team is the QB and the Texans DO NOT have a true starting QB. B. IMHO Attaochu will have more successful NFL career than Clowney. IMHO I think Clowney's career will be closer to Aundray Bruce (played 10 years but no Pro Bowls) and Attaochu will be closer to Orakpo.
Reason A is no reason to reach. I'm so tired of hearing "QB is the most important position" as a reason we HAVE to take a QB number one overall. It's just so narrow minded. If there isn't a franchise QB available then you don't draft a JAG with 1.1. Either use the pick on the highest rated player or trade down for a boatload of picks.


Reason B, I can understand. If you feel that way it's perfectly rational. But if you feel you can find a Better pass rusher later in the draft that doesn't mean you HAVE to draft a QB first. Take the next highest rated player. Robinson??? Whoever, just don't reach for a QB.
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Old 04-03-2014   #2040
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by powda View Post
Are you willing to go Clowney 1.1 and then:

trade #33 and 3rd round pick for Bortles/Manziel at roughly #20 overall?
In a heartbeat
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