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Old 12-23-2013   #1
TheIronDuke
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Default Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

I've been tracking our turnovers we've forced this season and luckily I've only needed to use both my hands to count. I have 4 fingers and 1 thumb on each hand therefore we've forced 10 whole turnovers if my maths are right. This is not only a very paltry figure, and it is not only the lowest amount in the NFL this year, it is the lowest amount of turnovers forced in the ENTIRE HISTORY of the NFL. The lowest amount of turnovers forced in a season is 12 by the Redskins in 2006.

That means, if my maths check out, that if we can somehow only force one or less turnovers in Possum Holler, then we will set us a new record! Since I'm discussing turnovers forced on this thread, I thought it'd be neat to look at what other defenses in this league are capable of doing.

We have recovered 4 freaking fumbles in 15 games and picked off a staggering 6 passes with Joseph being the champion of that with 2 whole interceptions.

Kansas City has 20 interceptions and have recovered 15 fumbles.
Seattle has 26 picks and 11 fumbles recovered.
New Orleans is the worstest NFC team at turnovers, 11 picks and 7 FR's.
The Jets of New York aren't quite as sucky as us, 10 picks and 2 FR's, what a bunch of losers at recovering fumbles.

Anyways, I'm of the mind that this is frackin pathetic and this alone should cost Wade his job. What kind of crap is this? We had 2 easy picks on Peyton yesterday but none of these morons can catch a GD football!

So, the subject is turnovers. Please share your thoughts or don't, whatever, and Merry Christmas!
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Old 12-23-2013   #2
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

Turnovers tell the tale, and we're tied with the Jets at -17 turnover differential, worst in the league. Last year we had 29 takeaways and were +12.

Surprised that this defense stopped forcing turnovers.

Note that the Jets defense only has 12 forced turnovers and they have a QB who's a turnover machine. Not a bad defense, really. And we have had the QB turning it over and only forced 10. I don't see how these could be linked, but that's something that has me thinking...
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Old 12-23-2013   #3
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

turnovers on both sides are the majority of the reason we are where we are
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Old 12-23-2013   #4
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Turnovers tell the tale, and we're tied with the Jets at -17 turnover differential, worst in the league. Last year we had 29 takeaways and were +12.
The Bucs are #3 in the NFL with +11 yet only have 4 wins. I guess that shows how bad they really are.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake
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Old 12-23-2013   #5
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

Yup. This stat alone trumps any argument defending Wade imo.
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Old 12-23-2013   #6
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
The Bucs are #3 in the NFL with +11 yet only have 4 wins. I guess that shows how bad they really are.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake
If we were +11, we might have 4 wins also
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Old 12-23-2013   #7
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
The Bucs are #3 in the NFL with +11 yet only have 4 wins. I guess that shows how bad they really are...
QB controversy/trading away the starting QB to go with the rookie, lost your #1 & #2 RBs ending the year with a guy who was a floater as your starter, 25% fewer offensive yards/game, 4 losses by 4-or-fewer points, likely finish 4-4 after 0-8 start... I still think they're a team on the rise.

Revis, McCoy are tops, Lavonte David is a beast... VJax, Doug Martin, Glennon looks like the real deal... add some Tackle help, DE help, Safety help... get a TE safety blanket for Glennon and Bucs can have a real turnaround year, imo.
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Old 12-23-2013   #8
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

Last season we forced 6 turnovers in one game against the Tacks. Like, how does a defense go from that to THIS?
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Old 12-23-2013   #9
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Last season we forced 6 turnovers in one game against the Tacks. Like, how does a defense go from that to THIS?
I dunno, man. It's not time of possession.
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Old 12-23-2013   #10
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
QB controversy/trading away the starting QB to go with the rookie, lost your #1 & #2 RBs ending the year with a guy who was a floater as your starter, 25% fewer offensive yards/game, 4 losses by 4-or-fewer points, likely finish 4-4 after 0-8 start... I still think they're a team on the rise.

Revis, McCoy are tops, Lavonte David is a beast... VJax, Doug Martin, Glennon looks like the real deal... add some Tackle help, DE help, Safety help... get a TE safety blanket for Glennon and Bucs can have a real turnaround year, imo.
You forgot new coach as well.
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Old 12-23-2013   #11
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

I knew before season started we would be setting records!
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Old 12-24-2013   #12
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Turnovers tell the tale, and we're tied with the Jets at -17 turnover differential, worst in the league. Last year we had 29 takeaways and were +12.

Surprised that this defense stopped forcing turnovers.

Note that the Jets defense only has 12 forced turnovers and they have a QB who's a turnover machine. Not a bad defense, really. And we have had the QB turning it over and only forced 10. I don't see how these could be linked, but that's something that has me thinking...
The D doesn't force turnovers in training camp meaning that the offence doesn't see it's weaknesses. The scheme is altered slightly and plays which have worked time and again through the offseason are heavily used because they are proven to work.

Your O only gets to practice against your D and vice versa, if one is really bad in a certain area you aren't going to find that out until the season kicks off and it can be too late to get things changed.

I'm speculating here, but I'm pretty certain I've had similar thoughts when rookies have excelled in camp for instance and then not translated it to the field.

KJs rookie season, for instance, AJ sitting out most of the contact stuff leaving him to cover Kevin Walter and the coaching staff all full of hyperbole about how good he looked.

Okoye was the same during the dark dark days of the offensive line troubles before Gibbs came and fixed things.
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Old 12-24-2013   #13
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
The Bucs are #3 in the NFL with +11 yet only have 4 wins. I guess that shows how bad they really are.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake
They're also #3 in penalties

#3 in penalties + #3 in turnovers = 4-11


#32 in penalties + #32 in turnovers = 2-13

#1 in penalties + #1 in turnovers = 12-3



There's got to be something else.
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Old 12-24-2013   #14
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
There's got to be something else.
You are looking at season numbers rather than individual game numbers. There is a correlation but not as strong on seasons. Turnover differential is the single greatest stat correlation to wins.

Last year (turnover diff. - winning %):

0 - 50%
+1 - 68%
+2 - 81%
>+2 - 95%

So you can have a +1 in 4 games and -5 in one game (-1 overall) and have a high likelihood of a 3-2 record.
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Old 12-24-2013   #15
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

We're #1? We're #1?

*cry*
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Old 12-24-2013   #16
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

I still say it is a discipline problem more than anything. Penalties, over pressure and lack of concentration and accountability ruined this team.

There is no single point of failure you can look at. In a lot of ways we remind me of the cowboys of the last 5-6 years. Tons of talent but always making one or two mistakes a game that we can't overcome. It has snowballed out of control and we axed the one guy that can be held accountable. We need new blood in the coaching ranks and we need to find a field general on each side of the ball. Watt/cush on Doing isn't bad but who on offense?

All is not lost (for the future) but it has gone missing lol :sadface:

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Old 12-26-2013   #17
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Poor field-awareness.

Our db's play the wrs way too much instead of the ball. When they do turn their heads it's usually too late and the ball dropped pass their ears.
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Old 12-26-2013   #18
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
QB controversy/trading away the starting QB to go with the rookie, lost your #1 & #2 RBs ending the year with a guy who was a floater as your starter, 25% fewer offensive yards/game, 4 losses by 4-or-fewer points, likely finish 4-4 after 0-8 start... I still think they're a team on the rise.

Revis, McCoy are tops, Lavonte David is a beast... VJax, Doug Martin, Glennon looks like the real deal... add some Tackle help, DE help, Safety help... get a TE safety blanket for Glennon and Bucs can have a real turnaround year, imo.
If they fired Schiano and made a good HC hire the NFC South could damn well challenge the NFC West for best division in the league.
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Old 12-26-2013   #19
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

I would think turnovers = risk taking or lack of .
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Old 12-26-2013   #20
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Default Re: Fewest Turnovers Forced Record is at Hand

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Originally Posted by klockWork View Post
Poor field-awareness.

Our db's play the wrs way too much instead of the ball. When they do turn their heads it's usually too late and the ball dropped pass their ears.
I agree with this and I don't know why it seems that Vance teaches the DB's to play this way. In 2012 though we had 15 picks as a team and KJ had the most with 4. I seem to remember a few of these coming off of Watt tips. So I look up passes defensed and Watt had 16 last season and this year he has 6. Now I'm not blaming the lack of picks on JJ but I wonder if that also has a lot to do with the huge decline in them.
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