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Old 12-23-2013   #21
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

Are Texans fans really so stupid that they don't understand the team was in cap trouble in 2012? They let Mario Williams and Biscuit walk, cut Winston and traded Ryans that offseason just to sneak in under the cap. Schaub was still under contract and cutting/trading him would have left additional millions in dead money on the cap at the QB position in addition to Manning's rather considerable hit.

Where do you think they were going to get $20 million per year to sign Manning?

Some of you need to be dragged out into the street and beaten with your keyboard until you lose the ability to type.
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Old 12-23-2013   #22
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
You don't know what they could have had. In many instances teams dump certain players or make other trades to free up space to make big splash moves. I never said if the Texans could have or couldn't have made the move. It would have been very difficult financially, but not impossible.
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Why?

Peyton runs his own system and Gary wouldn't give up control. That could never happen?

BoB didn't want to pay Peyton? Salary cap? You make room to sign Peyton Manning. Cut JoJo to sign Peyton? Yep Cut Duane Brown,? Yep cut AJ? yep

I think you're gettin my vibe and I said it at the time


It's clear you two forget what the cap looked like at the time. Revisionist at best and not shocking from either of you
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Old 12-23-2013   #23
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

You're still peddling this tripe out here? I don't believe it for a number of reasons


1.) We were in cap hell. Our moves over the last couple of years should tell you that it would've been tough to get him in here for the type of money he was asking for.

2.) We didn't know how he'd come back. The move could've easily ended up like the Ed Reed debacle we had this year...only much more costly.

3.) Denver didn't even want to give him free reign to run his system at first...so I doubt Gary would've let him have it here....

4.) I just have a hard time believing he was serious about coming here. Smith could've pursued him all he wanted, I just don't think we were a serious contender to land him..I imagine it was more of an Orlando Pace leveraging situation for Denver to give him what he wanted in salary.
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Old 12-23-2013   #24
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Are Texans fans really so stupid that they don't understand the team was in cap trouble in 2012? They let Mario Williams and Biscuit walk, cut Winston and traded Ryans that offseason just to sneak in under the cap. Schaub was still under contract and cutting/trading him would have left additional millions in dead money on the cap at the QB position in addition to Manning's rather considerable hit.

Where do you think they were going to get $20 million per year to sign Manning?

Some of you need to be dragged out into the street and beaten with your keyboard until you lose the ability to type.
They just have to have someone to blame .... Its easier to say "we didn't want him" than it is to say "we couldn't afford him" .... Or to realize he had just come off FOUR NECK Operations and that there was NO Guarantee he would play anywhere remotely close to his former self.


As much as I hate to admit it , I was cheering the guy yesterday .... glad he broke the record and did it against the Texans , a team he had beaten 16 of 18 try's over a 9 year span prior to Sunday. I hope he breaks Brees record for passing yards next week against the Raiders. He only needs 391 yards to do it.
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Old 12-23-2013   #25
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
It's clear you two forget what the cap looked like at the time. Revisionist at best and not shocking from either of you
So you're telling me that when Peyton was available there was no way they could've cut players at the time to make cap room for Peyton?

Nope, more likely Gary didn't want Peyton because he would have had to give up control of the offense and you know that wasn't going to happen.

This is very simple as to why Peyton isn't a Texan today.
1. Peyton wanted too much $$$$.
2. Gary wanted a QB he could control. (Schaub) And the rest is history. 2-14 on the way.
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Old 12-23-2013   #26
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
So you're telling me that when Peyton was available there was no way they could've cut players at the time to make cap room for Peyton?

Nope, more likely Gary didn't want Peyton because he would have had to give up control of the offense and you know that wasn't going to happen.

This is very simple as to why Peyton isn't a Texan today.
1. Peyton wanted too much $$$$.
2. Gary wanted a QB he could control. (Schaub) And the rest is history. 2-14 on the way.



What is so hard for you to understand about "The Texans didnt have the money" ?

You are missing a huge number 3 and that was Manning's health
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Old 12-23-2013   #27
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Old 12-23-2013   #28
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

Like I stated before, this was a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation with Manning...

If the Texans found a way to give him a huge contract and he ends up getting hurt, we kill the FO for making that move...

Manning signs with another team and tears it up in record fashion, we kill the FO for not making that move.

I would have loved to see Manning in Battle Red, but the fact remains, Texans had no money, Manning had no feeling in his right arm...

With the luck this team has had with FAs, Manning would have gotten hurt and Texans would have had to eat a huge chunk of the contract...

Broncos were in a better financial situation to take the chance, Texans were not...
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Old 12-23-2013   #29
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
What is so hard for you to understand about "The Texans didnt have the money" ?

You are missing a huge number 3 and that was Manning's health
You're correct on #3.

As far as the money goes, it's just an excuse. You cut players to make room for a Peyton Manning. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This was about taking a risk on Peyton's health, Gary's control and BoB's willingness to comit so much of the cap to one player. BoB/Gary were unwilling to take that risk, the Broncos were and the rest is history. To those willing to take risks, the greater the risk the greater the reward. BoB/Rick/Gary are not risk takers. Why because they dont have to be. The stadium is full every Sunday.
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Old 12-23-2013   #30
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

I think the real reason the texans look bad out of all this is that they had, te previous year, decided to shift resources towards creating a power D. They spent their cap room for the foreseeable in fixing the secondary and spent a number of high draft picks there at a time when the nfl was moving the goalposts to eliminate shutdown D due to lawsuits (an likely because the product is more marketable with high scoring shootouts).

Manning was available at a time when there were concerns about his ability to play, and our cap situation made it difficult (obviously they could have got it done had they wanted to but it wasn't going to be easy).

I seem to remember a core argument being that manning would come here cheap for whatever reason which I think was wishful thinking on the part of those saying it, that largely gets forgotten by people who now want to say we should have signed him.

I'm far from 100% behind rick smith, but I can definitely see how the factors that have cost this team could not have been forseen by him.

But anyway, well done to Peyton, he deserves the success and let not forget that Brady had randy moss in his prime when the benchmark was set. Manning hasn't got a target that good, just wish I could have enjoyed more of his career had he been in the NFC or something.
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Old 12-23-2013   #31
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You're correct on #3.

As far as the money goes, it's just an excuse. You cut players to make room for a Peyton Manning. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This was about taking a risk on Peyton's health, Gary's control and BoB's willingness to comit so much of the cap to one player. BoB/Gary were unwilling to take that risk, the Broncos were and the rest is history. To those willing to take risks, the greater the risk the greater the reward. BoB/Rick/Gary are not risk takers. Why because they dont have to be. The stadium is full every Sunday.


The money isnt an excuse its reality. I could afford a Ferrari, if I sold everything else I own. That said the Ferrari has been in a couple of wrecks and hasnt really been opened up in some time. Buying it without really driving it would make me uneasy.


The Texans not having the money and not being able to sell everything to get Manning are two differnet things. Denver didnt have to go on a sellathon so their risk was less than that of the Texans
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Old 12-23-2013   #32
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You're correct on #3.

As far as the money goes, it's just an excuse. You cut players to make room for a Peyton Manning. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This was about taking a risk on Peyton's health, Gary's control and BoB's willingness to comit so much of the cap to one player. BoB/Gary were unwilling to take that risk, the Broncos were and the rest is history. To those willing to take risks, the greater the risk the greater the reward. BoB/Rick/Gary are not risk takers. Why because they dont have to be. The stadium is full every Sunday.
Of course its not about the money. that's just a convenient excuse some texans fans want to use in order to rationalize missing out on peyton manning.

You are absolutely correct that if peyton freaking manning shows interest in playing for you (which he did according to multiple reports which would make sense; texans were loaded at the time ready to win) you make room.

Heck you at least gauge interest, and see what their asking price is. Instead the texans fresh off winning the division with schaub acted like they were too cool for school and didnt even bother meeting peyton, they didnt even bother doing their due diligence because of Kubiak's blind devotion to schaub.

Money was not an issue. If it truly was, you would have found a way not to make it an issue.

Now if the texans actually met with peyton and they came out of that meeting and said peyton's price is too high, then i would have been totally fine with it. At least they made a concerted effort to see if they could get peyton.

Texans didnt even bother which is what's troubling to this very day.

At least give yourself a chance.
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Old 12-23-2013   #33
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Of course its not about the money. that's just a convenient excuse texans fans in order to rationalize missing out on peyton manning.

You are absolutely correct that if peyton freaking manning shows interest in playing for you (which he did according to multiple reports which would make sense; texans were loaded at the time ready to win) you make room.

If you made room you wouldnt be loaded



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Heck you at least gauge interest, and see what their asking price is. Instead the texans fresh off winning the division with schaub acted like they were too cool for school and didnt even bother meeting peyton, they didnt even bother doing their due diligence because of Kubiak's blind devotion to schaub.
Do you know that the Texans didnt know the asking price was?



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Money was not an issue. If it truly was, you would have found a way not to make it an issue.
well thats about a stupid of a statement as you could get


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Now if the texans actually met with peyton and they came out of that meeting and said peyton's price is too high, then i would have been totally fine with it. At least they made a concerted effort to see if they could get peyton.

Texans didnt even bother which is what's troubling to this very day.

At least give yourself a chance.


What year did you work for the texans?
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Old 12-23-2013   #34
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You're correct on #3.

As far as the money goes, it's just an excuse. You cut players to make room for a Peyton Manning. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This was about taking a risk on Peyton's health, Gary's control and BoB's willingness to comit so much of the cap to one player. BoB/Gary were unwilling to take that risk, the Broncos were and the rest is history. To those willing to take risks, the greater the risk the greater the reward. BoB/Rick/Gary are not risk takers. Why because they dont have to be. The stadium is full every Sunday.
Lol at taking risks..The FO is blasted daily on this MB for "taking risks". The extension of Schaub coming off the Lisc Franc.....huge risk.....Not attempting to resign Glover Quinn in an effort to go after & eventually sign Ed Reed....huge risk......Letting go of Winston & Briesel for the garbage that has manned our right side OL since....huge risk.

So excuse me if i don't take you seriously on this subject.

Knowing you, i'm sure you would've found a way to malign McNair & the FO if they somehow found a way to move heaven and earth to bring Manning in & he played like dog turds or was injured for the majority of his time with us......which at the time was a very real scenario.
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Old 12-23-2013   #35
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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If you made room you wouldnt be loaded
peyton was coming off major neck surgery. he wasnt asking for the highest contract in professional sports history. If the texans were actually serious and actually saw peyton, they would have had a serious discussion with money.

They never bothered hence we will never know.


Quote:
Do you know that the Texans didnt know the asking price was?
They didnt bother meeting him. Just look at the quotes kubiak gave the chronicle during that time. It was quite dismissive of the notion of bringing peyton in and they were completely enamored with schaub.

Just like you.


Quote:
well thats about a stupid of a statement as you could get

If money was an issue (roster/cap wise), you make the necessary moves to not make it an issue.

Do try to keep up.



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What year did you work for the texans?
What year did you?
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Old 12-23-2013   #36
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Knowing you, i'm sure you would've found a way to malign McNair & the FO if they somehow found a way to move heaven and earth to bring Manning in & he played like dog turds or was injured for the majority of his time with us......which at the time was a very real scenario.
If Manning had come here and his neck went again or his arm strength had proved diminished as feared these same folks would be screaming at the top of their lungs - just like they are now. It's all hindsight BS.

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They didnt bother meeting him.
You don't need a meeting to find out the ballpark they are considering. It's a 10 second telephone conversation with the agent ending in "he is in the $20 mil per year range." Those calls are customary prelims and fans virtually never hear the details or even if they took place.
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Old 12-23-2013   #37
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Of course its not about the money. that's just a convenient excuse some texans fans want to use in order to rationalize missing out on peyton manning.

You are absolutely correct that if peyton freaking manning shows interest in playing for you (which he did according to multiple reports which would make sense; texans were loaded at the time ready to win) you make room.

Heck you at least gauge interest, and see what their asking price is. Instead the texans fresh off winning the division with schaub acted like they were too cool for school and didnt even bother meeting peyton, they didnt even bother doing their due diligence because of Kubiak's blind devotion to schaub.

Money was not an issue. If it truly was, you would have found a way not to make it an issue.

Now if the texans actually met with peyton and they came out of that meeting and said peyton's price is too high, then i would have been totally fine with it. At least they made a concerted effort to see if they could get peyton.

Texans didnt even bother which is what's troubling to this very day.

At least give yourself a chance.
I believe this was BoB's call. He's a behind the sceenes micromanager. Gary/Rick take alot of heat because BoB is unwilling to accept risks.

Everything else I agree with in this post.
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Old 12-23-2013   #38
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Lol at taking risks..The FO is blasted daily on this MB for "taking risks". The extension of Schaub coming off the Lisc Franc.....huge risk.....Not attempting to resign Glover Quinn in an effort to go after & eventually sign Ed Reed....huge risk......Letting go of Winston & Briesel for the garbage that has manned our right side OL since....huge risk.

So excuse me if i don't take you seriously on this subject.

Knowing you, i'm sure you would've found a way to malign McNair & the FO if they somehow found a way to move heaven and earth to bring Manning in & he played like dog turds or was injured for the majority of his time with us......which at the time was a very real scenario.
Dont take me seriously if you wish, but know that after the Lisfranc injury several of us on the MB thought it would end this way for Schaub, same with Reed.

Yes, against C-N-D's warnings I was for signing Manning at the time. You dont get a shot at a HOF QB very often and I was willing to accept that risk. The front office and BoB should be maligned, Rick should be fired. After all they are staring 2-14 in the face.

Last edited by steelbtexan; 12-23-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 12-23-2013   #39
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
peyton was coming off major neck surgery. he wasnt asking for the highest contract in professional sports history. If the texans were actually serious and actually saw peyton, they would have had a serious discussion with money.

They never bothered hence we will never know.


And again if you made room for Manning you wouldnt have been loaded



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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
They didnt bother meeting him. Just look at the quotes kubiak gave the chronicle during that time. It was quite dismissive of the notion of bringing peyton in and they were completely enamored with schaub.

Just like you.


Which has nothing to do with knowing an asking price



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post

If money was an issue (roster/cap wise), you make the necessary moves to not make it an issue.

Do try to keep up.

Then you wouldnt have a full roster




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What year did you?



So thats a no you didnt work for the team? I see
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Old 12-23-2013   #40
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Default Re: Very Fitting Peyton set NFL TD Record vs the Team that SHUNNED HIM

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
peyton was coming off major neck surgery. he wasnt asking for the highest contract in professional sports history. If the texans were actually serious and actually saw peyton, they would have had a serious discussion with money.

With how our cap situation looked at the time & what he actually got, he may as well have been asking for that. There was no way in hell we would've been able to squeeze 20 million a year under our cap without selling the farm to do it.

& if we were to do it, we would've been even more dependent on Smith's drafts to replace talent that we had to let go...Not a very appealing outlook considering what his 2012 & 2013 drafts are looking like right now.
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