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Old 01-22-2014   #201
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Let me relate these to Madden Grades and the draft.

If you've got Clowney at a 96, Matthews as a 94 and some other prospect (Say Anthony Barr) at 93, but you have either Bridgewater or Manziel even close to those dudes in your grades, and you need a QB, you have to take one of those two QB's. I don't have to explain to you how important QB's are in this game, and I'm sure you understand how difficult in can be to get a QB who can be a game breaker.

Maybe in your evaluations of whatever you don't think Teddy or Johnny can be those guys and thats fine then go with whomever. But if your honest evaluations put either of the QB's close to the guys who you think will be the best players from the draft you almost have to take the QB. It's really that simple.
Gonna disagree which is what makes the boards fun. Using your examples, if TB or JFF rated 90% and top 5 yet Boyd is rated even at 85 (I have him at about 90) and he can be selected in third (currently rated top of 5th) I go with Boyd. I have watched all these QBs now and he is right there with all of them and can be had at least two rounds lower. His 6'.06" is only risk. He is more solid than several including TB and JFF.

If Mettenberger healthy and that will not be known for a while, he is only QB I'd take over Boyd and he should be a second at best.
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Old 01-22-2014   #202
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Yes very familiar. He showed promise in 2010 his first full year starting, and then regressed a lot in 2011. His numbers ticked back up in 2012 but he still didn't look to be taking big strides and then this year he really took a plummet before getting release and picked up by the Vikings. They gave him a decent chunk of change and made it obvious they planned to start him, and then he bombed big time in the Monday night game against the Gaints, couldn't hit the broadside of the barn. He is not a good QB, anyone that watches him knows that. Mike Glennon came in as a rookie and looked way better than him in the same Bucs offense.
So,,,,,No!
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Old 01-22-2014   #203
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

How did this get to be a thread about Freeman?
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Old 01-22-2014   #204
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
So,,,,,No!
Please,,,,Explain what I am missing then,,,,,

I know about the whole controversy between him and Schiano, but that doesn't change the fact that he performed very poorly on the field.
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Old 01-22-2014   #205
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
No doubt about it.

But where he went to school and who his daddy is are two main reasons why he is so highly rated around here, both of which have nothing to do with his own ability.
Not for me. I couldn't give a **** less about his school or who his father is seeing as how I don't live in Texas and wasn't an Oilers fan.

I just liked the idea of getting the best OL, whoever it may be, because I'm sick of OL issues.

Doesn't look like it's gonna happen anyway though, if he's slipping.
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Old 01-22-2014   #206
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
How did this get to be a thread about Freeman?
Most TT threads are not about what they're about, but something different.
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Old 01-22-2014   #207
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Gonna disagree which is what makes the boards fun. Using your examples, if TB or JFF rated 90% and top 5 yet Boyd is rated even at 85 (I have him at about 90) and he can be selected in third (currently rated top of 5th) I go with Boyd. I have watched all these QBs now and he is right there with all of them and can be had at least two rounds lower. His 6'.06" is only risk. He is more solid than several including TB and JFF.

If Mettenberger healthy and that will not be known for a while, he is only QB I'd take over Boyd and he should be a second at best.
You're the only one that has Boyd at 90. I know this is imaginary, but where did you pull 85?

I stole this from another thread

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
Quote:
Packers scout not alone in feeling Tajh Boyd/Clemson undraftable. Another league insider told me they would not use a draft pick on the QB.
The drop off is not the way you depict it. This is my opinion, but at the same time, who am I right? Take this for what you will.

Here are my imaginary Madden grades. (BTW, this is absolutely subject to change)

1. TB - 92
2. Bortles - 88
3. JFF - 86 (with potential for 93, WILDCARD!)
4. Derek Carr - 76
5. Zach Met - 69
6. Tajh Boyd - 66
7. Jimmy G - 63
8. AJ McCarron - 60
9. Aaron Murray - 56
10. Brett Smith/David Fales - 50

90s don't go in round 3. They go in round 1. 60's go in round 3. No scouts pass up on 90 QBs to draft a special teamer/3rd round LB in the 4th just because they have a QB. Teams will gladly hoard several 90 QBs.

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Most TT threads are not about what they're about, but something different.
Boom!

Speaking of imaginary...If we consider any tackle in this draft to build these imaginary trenches in hopes of becoming the Cleveland Browns, it better not be Matthews and better be Robinson. After the combine is over I'm sure Big Ro is gonna be top 5 and Matthews and his "supposed" T-Rex arms will be clinging to top 15 hope.
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Old 01-22-2014   #208
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
You're the only one that has Boyd at 90. I know this is imaginary, but where did you pull 85?

I stole this from another thread

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline


The drop off is not the way you depict it. This is my opinion, but at the same time, who am I right? Take this for what you will.

Here are my imaginary Madden grades. (BTW, this is absolutely subject to change)

1. TB - 92
2. Bortles - 88
3. JFF - 86 (with potential for 93, WILDCARD!)
4. Derek Carr - 76
5. Zach Met - 69
6. Tajh Boyd - 66
7. Jimmy G - 63
8. AJ McCarron - 60
9. Aaron Murray - 56
10. Brett Smith/David Fales - 50

90s don't go in round 3. They go in round 1. 60's go in round 3. No scouts pass up on 90 QBs to draft a special teamer/3rd round LB in the 4th just because they have a QB. Teams will gladly hoard several 90 QBs.



Boom!

Speaking of imaginary...If we consider any tackle in this draft to build these imaginary trenches in hopes of becoming the Cleveland Browns, it better not be Matthews and better be Robinson. After the combine is over I'm sure Big Ro is gonna be top 5 and Matthews and his "supposed" T-Rex arms will be clinging to top 15 hope.
TBH, my system is based on a 100 percentile in that I consider each of several factors as do others. I do have TB rated as best QB but imo based on observation as well as what others say, if Boyd was same height and he is not far off, he would have slight edge imo. I just threw out 85 as if he had that rating I would take him at third over TB in first. I agree '90' players are not in third round but I don't rate him as a third round guy. My mocks are now based on where player is rated by others such as CBS draftscout and Walter. My final mock is usually based on where I think a player will be selected. Just the way I do things.
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Old 01-22-2014   #209
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Gonna disagree which is what makes the boards fun. Using your examples, if TB or JFF rated 90% and top 5 yet Boyd is rated even at 85 (I have him at about 90) and he can be selected in third (currently rated top of 5th) I go with Boyd. I have watched all these QBs now and he is right there with all of them and can be had at least two rounds lower. His 6'.06" is only risk. He is more solid than several including TB and JFF.

If Mettenberger healthy and that will not be known for a while, he is only QB I'd take over Boyd and he should be a second at best.
What do you see in Boyd that makes you so keen on him?
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Old 01-23-2014   #210
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
What do you see in Boyd that makes you so keen on him?
It is his whole makeup that all QBs are judged by; & as do all of them he needs work and time to improve. He has foot speed, balance, good in pocket but can scramble, good arm and can make the throws. Here is a very detailed eval that I agree with (mostly) from Peter Smith at draftbreakdown.com :

http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/10/...yd-qb-clemson/
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Old 01-23-2014   #211
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
It is his whole makeup that all QBs are judged by; & as do all of them he needs work and time to improve. He has foot speed, balance, good in pocket but can scramble, good arm and can make the throws. Here is a very detailed eval that I agree with (mostly) from Peter Smith at draftbreakdown.com :

http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/10/...yd-qb-clemson/
Thanks badboy, I can't quite get my head around Boyd.
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Old 01-23-2014   #212
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Thanks badboy, I can't quite get my head around Boyd.
I understand but you can say that about all of them this year. He has all he needs but size ( a true 6 .06 feet tall and 223 lbs). If height does not eliminate Manziel it should not Boyd.
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Old 01-23-2014   #213
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I understand but you can say that about all of them this year. He has all he needs but size ( a true 6 .06 feet tall and 223 lbs). If height does not eliminate Manziel it should not Boyd.
I think my doubts have been about accuracy as much as anything, maybe that is height related..... we'll see I guess.

If we don't go with QB at 1:1 I think Boyd or Mettenberger will be my fallbacks at the moment.
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Old 01-24-2014   #214
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Seeing Greg Robinson Auburn/ OT/ 6'5"/ 320lbs./ moving ahead of Matthews.
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Old 01-24-2014   #215
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
What do you see in Boyd that makes you so keen on him?
I like his accuracy, I love his ball placement. I also get the feeling he's most apt to stand in the pocket & deliver a pass knowing he's going to get hit & get up to play the next down.
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Old 01-24-2014   #216
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Seeing Greg Robinson Auburn/ OT/ 6'5"/ 320lbs./ moving ahead of Matthews.
I believe he will be the first OT taken
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Old 01-24-2014   #217
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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I believe he will be the first OT taken
I was reading somewhere that Matthews was being thought as a center .
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Old 01-24-2014   #218
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
I was reading somewhere that Matthews was being thought as a center .
Center or guard. Yes I heard that a couple of days ago.
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Old 01-24-2014   #219
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Earlier in the season , I preferred Matthews .... In general I still do.

But .... Circumstances dictate course of action.

The circumstances here are simple - We don't have a quarterback. If you don't have a franchise QB , you go get one. Teddy , should he declare is probably your best bet to become that franchise QB , at least in this draft.

I don't want one of the scrap heap QB's that will be FA's this offseason , they have all proven they aren't "Franchise Quarterbacks." They are Schaub or worse .... I've had enough of that.

I guess you do have the option of drafting Matthews and letting Case act like an NFL QB for another season then drafting Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota in the 2015 draft .... but I'm not so sure I can stomach another season like this one.
I understand where you are going here, and I wouldn't mind waiting a year or so for that franchise QB opportunity. I think a lot of teams waste a lot of years drafting a QB out of need when they aren't really drafting a true franchise QB, and then their team's big run gets delayed several years as they are looking for a franchise QB again. The Cleveland Browns and the Jags are perfect examples of teams that continually make this mistake. If O'Brien doesn't feel like any of these QB's are going to for surely be franchise QB's then I'd rather him get a franchise Olineman if he feels that Mathews is that guy. I just don't want the pick wasted on any position. Lets just make sure that we're getting a solid player that can contribute hopefully at a Pro Bowl level for many years.

Now the problem with waiting until next season with the idea of getting guys like Mariota or Winston is the fact that tons of teams are going to be wanting those guys next year too. What are the odds that the Texans will be at a #1 draft spot again next year? I highly doubt we will even be in the top 5. If so, that would mean we had a terrible season next year. I don't think that will happen and we will probably be picking somewhere around 15 or so. Just a guess as of now. So, how does that put us in a position next year to get that franchise guy? It puts us at an even lower probability to find that guy most likely.

Having the #1 pick this season is great, but it isn't an easy choice at all this season to me. I think you can approach this from several different routes or strategies, and many of them can go wrong. None of these QB's have that Andrew Luck type of "can't miss" feel to them. They all have certain question marks that are pretty glaring along with the upside as well. I don't envy O'Brien's task that is in front of him at all with this draft any way.
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Old 01-27-2014   #220
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Default Re: Jake Matthews now #1

Trading down and getting picks for next two drafts looks enticing.
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