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Old 12-12-2013   #21
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
Only without Shanahan would I take him.
I'm pretty sure that comment was saturated with sarcasm.
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Old 12-12-2013   #22
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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But not the quality of Matthews nor could most of them replace Brown in a few years and keep going to pro bowl; even my guy James would be solid RT but not a left.
I'm sure that no draftnik had Brown on their boards in the first round and look at him now. Look at Buffalo getting Cordy Glenn in the second round and making him into a Pro Bowl level LT.

I see no reason to spend a high draft pick on a RT to maybe someday replace LT when we have needs at way more important positions (QB, LB, DT) and we have a high draft pick to use it on.
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Old 12-12-2013   #23
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

No. I'm not convinced he'll ever be the same guy he was at the beginning of his career again. I think Shanahan broke him and then continued to pile on by not sitting him for Cousins at the beginning of this season.

I think we can do more with that first pick than get a guy who's probably already washed up.
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Old 12-12-2013   #24
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Why would y'all want to draft a RT so high in the draft? RT's can be had with 2nd round or even later picks. We didn't get Duane until the end of the 1st and he might've even have fallen to the second.
A good GM can leverage a high pick for more choices and still get the guy they have targeted when it's not an over-hyped QB.

I don't care what QB they bring in here, if the line cannot consistently protect him, he's going to struggle and most likely fail.

A good line can make a decent QB look good, and a good QB look great. And if you happen on a great QB with an awesome line, you are looking at a formula for long term success and Super Bowl potential.

I know McNair wants playoff contention in 2014 and does not want to be seen as a rebuild year, but that is either naively shortsighted or wishful thinking on his part. This team does not have a starting QB, does not have a HC, and most likely has to install a new offense. To expect immediate results is setting himself up. Yeah, it can happen, but let's not be ready to jump off bridges if immediate gratification is not satisfied.

I have no problem with a 2 year "rebuild" to re-stock players and fully implement new schemes. They will have high picks in every round, so do it right and make both the offensive and defensive lines something to build on for the long term future, IMO.
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Old 12-12-2013   #25
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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A good GM can leverage a high pick for more choices and still get the guy they have targeted when it's not an over-hyped QB.

I don't care what QB they bring in here, if the line cannot consistently protect him, he's going to struggle and most likely fail.

A good line can make a decent QB look good, and a good QB look great. And if you happen on a great QB with an awesome line, you are looking at a formula for long term success and Super Bowl potential.

I know McNair wants playoff contention in 2014 and does not want to be seen as a rebuild year, but that is either naively shortsighted or wishful thinking on his part. This team does not have a starting QB, does not have a HC, and most likely has to install a new offense. To expect immediate results is setting himself up. Yeah, it can happen, but let's not be ready to jump off bridges if immediate gratification is not satisfied.

I have no problem with a 2 year "rebuild" to re-stock players and fully implement new schemes. They will have high picks in every round, so do it right and make both the offensive and defensive lines something to build on for the long term future, IMO.
I kind of doubt any coach would want to come in with no QB. The Texans have no starting NFL QBs on the roster. Taking Matthews and rolling with Mark Sanchez or a second-tier rookie QB doesn't seem like a real possibility. Look how well the Jake Long-Chad Hennie combo worked for the Phins

I honestly doubt that anyone would be bringing up Jake if his last name wasn't Matthews. Of course the board would be talking up Derek if his last name wasn't Carr
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Old 12-12-2013   #26
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

No thanks.

RG3 might be RGdone.

His mobility was his calling card and that is possibly gone.

I'm currently Ready for Teddy.
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Old 12-12-2013   #27
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
I kind of doubt any coach would want to come in with no QB. The Texans have no starting NFL QBs on the roster. Taking Matthews and rolling with Mark Sanchez or a second-tier rookie QB doesn't seem like a real possibility. Look how well the Jake Long-Chad Hennie combo worked for the Phins
I get that a new HC will probably want to use this pick on a QB. It's such a crap shoot at best, and with a rookie QB, there is little doubt about rebuild as you wait for the player to mature and absorb an NFL playbook.

And I'm not seeing any veteran QBs to really get excited about.

However, I am mentally preparing myself for the possible Wade at HC and Case at QB. There is the potential when the owner said it's an on-going evaluation process over the next three games. Should they go this route, expect to see the BPA mentality with the draft pick.

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I honestly doubt that anyone would be bringing up Jake if his last name wasn't Matthews. Of course the board would be talking up Derek if his last name wasn't Carr
Maybe. But don't most draft boards have Matthews going high? He's not going to be rated high on name alone.
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Old 12-12-2013   #28
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Maybe. But don't most draft boards have Matthews going high? He's not going to be rated high on name alone.
Matthews and Carr are both good prospects but neither are consensus best player at their position let alone worthy of 1.1
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Old 12-12-2013   #29
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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I get that a new HC will probably want to use this pick on a QB. It's such a crap shoot at best, and with a rookie QB, there is little doubt about rebuild as you wait for the player to mature and absorb an NFL playbook.

And I'm not seeing any veteran QBs to really get excited about.

However, I am mentally preparing myself for the possible Wade at HC and Case at QB. There is the potential when the owner said it's an on-going evaluation process over the next three games. Should they go this route, expect to see the BPA mentality with the draft pick.



Maybe. But don't most draft boards have Matthews going high? He's not going to be rated high on name alone.
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Old 12-12-2013   #30
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

No for any team. I think Shanahan (and maybe RG3 a bit himself) ruined his career by what they did in the Seahawks game last year. I don't think he will ever be truly 100% again.
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Old 12-12-2013   #31
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

In a blink of the eye. And Mathews is so overrated on this board it's rediculous.
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Old 12-12-2013   #32
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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one really good year, one bad year. could go either way, looks like he was brought back too soon.

would you give up the 1st for him?

id have to say i dont think i would. looks really damaged out there.
Not no but heck no. Trade a 1st overall for Sir King Failure? We know you were just trying to stimulate interesting speculation. We know you weren't serious.
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Old 12-12-2013   #33
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Why would y'all want to draft a RT so high in the draft? RT's can be had with 2nd round or even later picks. We didn't get Duane until the end of the 1st and he might've even have fallen to the second.
The kind of lineman you're talking about drafting that early can play multiple positions on the line and play those positions at an exceptionally high level. When the Oiler's line was stocked with Bruce Matthews, Mike Munchak, and Dean Steinkuhler It really didn't make all that much difference who the other two guys were as long as they were at least minimally capable. Building that kind of wall up front makes everything work better and it's an investment that can last a decade.
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Old 12-12-2013   #34
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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The kind of lineman you're talking about drafting that early can play multiple positions on the line and play those positions at an exceptionally high level. When the Oiler's line was stocked with Bruce Matthews, Mike Munchak, and Dean Steinkuhler It really didn't make all that much difference who the other two guys were as long as they were at least minimally capable. Building that kind of wall up front makes everything work better and it's an investment that can last a decade.
True it can pay dividends for a decade. That still leaves a lot of room on how to do it. A Football Life did an episode on The Wall of the 90's Cowboys. It started with a 3rd round pick as its highest picked player.
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Old 12-12-2013   #35
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
A good GM can leverage a high pick for more choices and still get the guy they have targeted when it's not an over-hyped QB.

I don't care what QB they bring in here, if the line cannot consistently protect him, he's going to struggle and most likely fail.

A good line can make a decent QB look good, and a good QB look great. And if you happen on a great QB with an awesome line, you are looking at a formula for long term success and Super Bowl potential.

I know McNair wants playoff contention in 2014 and does not want to be seen as a rebuild year, but that is either naively shortsighted or wishful thinking on his part. This team does not have a starting QB, does not have a HC, and most likely has to install a new offense. To expect immediate results is setting himself up. Yeah, it can happen, but let's not be ready to jump off bridges if immediate gratification is not satisfied.

I have no problem with a 2 year "rebuild" to re-stock players and fully implement new schemes. They will have high picks in every round, so do it right and make both the offensive and defensive lines something to build on for the long term future, IMO.
Very well stated DB. We need to make wise choices and not make "predictions". This would be a good time to use the old one game at a time.
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Old 12-12-2013   #36
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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True it can pay dividends for a decade. That still leaves a lot of room on how to do it. A Football Life did an episode on The Wall of the 90's Cowboys. It started with a 3rd round pick as its highest picked player.
That still blows my mind...Tuinei, Newton? Undrafted. Williams was a 3rd IIRC and believe Allen was the 2nd...I can't remember Stepnoski but I'm sure it was a steal.

Crazy luck or great scouting or both.
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Old 12-12-2013   #37
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Matthews and Carr are both good prospects but neither are consensus best player at their position let alone worthy of 1.1
I could be wrong but I think Matthews is the consensus #1 at his position with exception of message board experts. Whether he is worthy of first pick is arguable.
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Old 12-12-2013   #38
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

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one really good year, one bad year. could go either way, looks like he was brought back too soon.

would you give up the 1st for him?

id have to say i dont think i would. looks really damaged out there.
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Old 12-12-2013   #39
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

Yeah I'd do it. The guy had a very stellar rookie season. Showed tons of skill, but just needed to learn to slide better and to avoid hits. Last season he came into the team with no preseason and still hurt. He didn't seem mentally prepared for the speed and the physical demand of a long game. I think with a full off season where he can let his body heal and work on a lot of things internally, he can come back prepared mentally again and in top physical shape, he easily can return to a progressing form again. He'll need some weapons, but his skill set is far to great for me to pass if I had the decision. I'd easily roll the dice on RG3.
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Old 12-12-2013   #40
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Default Re: Would Your Trade the 1st Pick for Rg3?

I think a lot of people are underrating Griffin's ability as a passer. The guy can certainly make all the throws you'd want in an NFL quarterback. Griffin's ability to scramble certainly helps him out, but Tim Tebow he is not.

I wouldn't do it solely based on contractual reasons. His rookie deal is a four year contract, of which two years have already passed. So we'd be giving up a first round pick for two years of Griffin. Sure, we could franchise him, but you never want to reserve your franchise tag years in advance when anything can happen, like Griffin's injury for example.

I do honestly pause though if, say, Griffin would agree to an extension before a trade.
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