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Old 11-25-2013   #121
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
We're an expansion team. Pittsburgh and Green Bay are not.
How much longer is this going to be an excuse? I guess the Browns, Jags and Panthers are also. Carolina is looking better right now and has been to the SB. The other two are not examples I would like to see emulated.

At some point excuses have to stop being made and people need to be held accountable. 8 years is a long time to be in charge and not really go any wear.

On that note, I'd like to request that upon Matt Schaub's departure, the number 8 should be stricken from the roster forever.
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Old 11-25-2013   #122
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

This team has some holes but it is not bereft of talent. They have been able to compete with teams. The problem with this team is they play down to the level of their competition and they completely lack discipline. That is a leadership problem. I have defended Kubiak until this year because I thought he was able to compete. I don't think he's a bad coach and I think he will be able to reflect on his mistakes after he is fired but at this point he is toxic here. It is time to move on to someone else. Personally I'm in favor of firing him now. I don't want Wade, hell go find a HS coach and give him the best 5 weeks of his life but get Gary gone. He will land on his feet.

Then start the search. Up and coming coordinators... college or pro... if you are going to stay with this system then maybe baby shabby is worth a look, if not... Brown, Meyers and Brooks can probably play in a different system. Then move to a 4-3. We don't have the NT for a true 3-4 but we have JJ Mitchell and Antonio that have the makings of a nice DL with Cushing as a Mike.. Will look more into it later but this could be turned around in an off season.

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Old 11-26-2013   #123
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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What Nose has 85 tackles and 4 sacks?
I can't ever think of the big tennessee kids name. Are those his stats? I wasn't looking at stats, I just look at his stoutness inside and how he moves inside. I watched him forklift guys in the backfield with straight power.
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Old 11-26-2013   #124
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller. I personally am tired of a finesse offense especially when they get in the red zone. I want to see some power football and see our ol push some dl backwards on 3 and short or 4th and goal. On defense I don't care if they go 4-3 or stay 3-4 just stop somebody. Disguise some things and mix up the blitzes so the opposing teams don't know who is coming or from where. Build both sides of the ball around our good core players. Build from the trenches out. And can we finally get a fat boy in the middle of our DL?

We may want to think about trading AJ to a contending team next year. I personally want to see him succeed and retire happy. AJ has given everything here and deserves a chance at a superbowl before he retires. I am not sure this team can turn around quick enough for that to happen here. The rest of the players are young enough to continue building with. I'm not saying this team can't turn around quickly. I'm just saying a new coach and gm will need to weigh their options. For sure Schaub needs to go.
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Old 11-26-2013   #125
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Originally Posted by bckey View Post
The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller. I personally am tired of a finesse offense especially when they get in the red zone. I want to see some power football and see our ol push some dl backwards on 3 and short or 4th and goal. On defense I don't care if they go 4-3 or stay 3-4 just stop somebody. Disguise some things and mix up the blitzes so the opposing teams don't know who is coming or from where. Build both sides of the ball around our good core players. Build from the trenches out. And can we finally get a fat boy in the middle of our DL?

We may want to think about trading AJ to a contending team next year. I personally want to see him succeed and retire happy. AJ has given everything here and deserves a chance at a superbowl before he retires. I am not sure this team can turn around quick enough for that to happen here. The rest of the players are young enough to continue building with. I'm not saying this team can't turn around quickly. I'm just saying a new coach and gm will need to weigh their options. For sure Schaub needs to go.
I agree with some of what u say,but I would like to dispute a few things. In terms of the shannahan/kubiak offense being dead,I disagree. I say this all the time,think players not plays. The plays are the same,they're just called different names. The execution with the personell is why both teams are struggling. Rg3 and the meltdown of schaub along with some missing players required to run the offense is the problem. You can say its a finesse offense,but its the same offense in which foster scored 16 rushing tds. A lot of those tds came inside the 5 also. Does that mean the same finesse offense can't score or move in short space or is it foster has great vision and can find little creases? Green Bay runs a version of this offense,but in the passing game they have better players minus andre. imagine the texans with dez bryant opposite of andre and a vertcal threat who can run at te like graham,cameron jordan,or even martelius bennett. We wouldn't have these discussions.

In terms of trading andre,I wouldn't do it. As much as I would like to see him win a ring,that's not a requirement for a player. If the texans keep sucking and they take a qb,what better way to get the new qb ready? Wayne was a free agent and they kept him to help develop luck. The same was done with cam and steve smith. Not to mention,andre probably doesn't want to go anywhere anyway. I do agree about the big guy in the middle. Not just a big guy,but a big guy who can play.
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Old 11-26-2013   #126
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

I can't help but feel that we are better suited to a 4-3 than a 3-4.

I mean, we need an NT, at least 1 ilb (possibly 2) and 2 ilbs as it stands.

If we go back to 4-3, we still need NT, Mitchell can play DT, move Cush back to olb giving him less responsibility for ranging the entire field to save his knee some, reed can play the other ilb, and draft one ilb (or trade for demeco to return?)

Suddenly you only have a glaring need at 2 positions instead of like 5.

And you've got natural depth having mercilus as an edge rusher and the ability for smith (if brought back at a reasonable rate) to rotate inside.

The transition would be relatively smooth and allow us to focus on fixing the OL and te option of QB if the new staff feel its the right time to do that.
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Old 11-26-2013   #127
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Originally Posted by Txn_in_Oki View Post
How much longer is this going to be an excuse? I guess the Browns, Jags and Panthers are also. Carolina is looking better right now and has been to the SB. The other two are not examples I would like to see emulated.

At some point excuses have to stop being made and people need to be held accountable. 8 years is a long time to be in charge and not really go any wear.

On that note, I'd like to request that upon Matt Schaub's departure, the number 8 should be stricken from the roster forever.
But Carolina has something we don't - a franchise QB. I wouldn't have said this before but Cam Newton has shown steady progression. Don't look now, but I think this Carolina team can contend for the playoffs.

And that goes back to the point I've been making consistently in the mock draft threads - if you have a shot at a franchise guy you take it.
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Old 11-26-2013   #128
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Some of us need to quit acting like this team is devoid of talent, because that isn't the case. Nor is it correct to say the team has enough talent to win a Super Bowl.

We're in that in-between stage that people can call it anything they like depending on which way the wind blows through the ears on their skull.
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How can you say we're a talentless team?

Duane Brown, Chris Myers, AJ, DeAndre (who has been off recently, but he's got talent), Foster on the offense.

DJ Swearinger, Jonathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson (don't say he's not a good #2, because he is), Danieal Manning, JJ Watt, Ninja, Cushing.

This is not a talentless team. It's a shallow team.
The Texans have had good talent through most of the Kubiak era. That is why I always found the slow and steady, "right way" mantra so irritating. The team wasn't doing anything the right way; slow and steady was just some of the fans' way of spinning perennial under-achieving as progress. The second 8-8 season, 9-7, 6-10, maybe even the 10-6 season - the team underperformed to its talent level every time.

What changed last year for the 12-4 record? The team played up to its ability for once. This season it is back to performing well under the talent level. There is no excuse for the last two losses especially - is 4-7 too much to expect from this group? Hardly.

The Kubiak regime - the era of under-achievement and wasted opportunity.
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Old 11-26-2013   #129
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

You really can't go 11-5 & 12-4 and then fall apart and claim to still be an "expansion" team.
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Old 11-26-2013   #130
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
I can't help but feel that we are better suited to a 4-3 than a 3-4.

I mean, we need an NT, at least 1 ilb (possibly 2) and 2 ilbs as it stands.

If we go back to 4-3, we still need NT, Mitchell can play DT, move Cush back to olb giving him less responsibility for ranging the entire field to save his knee some, reed can play the other ilb, and draft one ilb (or trade for demeco to return?)

Suddenly you only have a glaring need at 2 positions instead of like 5.

And you've got natural depth having mercilus as an edge rusher and the ability for smith (if brought back at a reasonable rate) to rotate inside.

The transition would be relatively smooth and allow us to focus on fixing the OL and te option of QB if the new staff feel its the right time to do that.
JJ at DE in a 43 would be sick!
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Old 11-26-2013   #131
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Anyone think Brian Orakpo would give us a hometown discount next year? Local kid who will be a free agent, and hes looked good tonight.
You only give hometown discounts if your home team is a contender or you have no market. Neither holds true here.

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
You really can't go 11-5 & 12-4 and then fall apart and claim to still be an "expansion" team.
Boom

Finally... everyone talking trading down in the first... When is the last time that worked out effectively for the Texans? Granted we should have new scouts in town but I want to take a stroll down memory lane

2007 traded down from 8 to 10 - We drafted Amobi Okoye (Pat Willis went 11 BTW)

2008 traded down from 18 to 26 - Duane Brown is awesome, no complaints...except the Ravens won a Super Bowl led by Flacco. At least we got Dominique Barber and Steve Slaton

Do NOT trade down! #1 overall player by most scouts is a Quarterback! THE MOST IMPORTANT position and the #1 overall talent! WTF?? There is your answer! Would it have been wise for the Colts to trade down from the #1 pick and build a 'foundation' (Everyone knows a 2-14 team is obviously lacking one). Take Bridgewater PLEASE. Enough building of this mythical 'foundation'.
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Old 11-26-2013   #132
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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JJ at DE in a 43 would be sick!
He's too good and a lot of his talent would be wasted. You don't want an idiot like Jared Allen or Mario Williams that can only loop around the outside and take down the QB when they hold the ball too long.

Watt puts up the same and better stats WHILE still plugging holes in the middle and stopping the run.

When Mario was here, all Peyton ever did was audible the run to Mario's side because there was always a huge hole over there while he came in looping out wide trying to sack Peyton.
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Old 11-26-2013   #133
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

JJ would be better off at DT in a 43. Majority of his sacks have come from there on passing downs
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Old 11-26-2013   #134
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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He's too good and a lot of his talent would be wasted. You don't want an idiot like Jared Allen or Mario Williams that can only loop around the outside and take down the QB when they hold the ball too long.

Watt puts up the same and better stats WHILE still plugging holes in the middle and stopping the run.

When Mario was here, all Peyton ever did was audible the run to Mario's side because there was always a huge hole over there while he came in looping out wide trying to sack Peyton.
The reason why you would make the switch is to maximize your DL play. Ends in 43 are put in a position to impact the game dramatically more than where JJ is now. Not that he is having a whole lot of trouble currently..
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Old 11-26-2013   #135
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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The reason why you would make the switch is to maximize your DL play. Ends in 43 are put in a position to impact the game dramatically more than where JJ is now. Not that he is having a whole lot of trouble currently..
I see little problem with the scheme and more problem with the talent evaluators behind the scenes. When you have the defensive MVP of the league in one system, I believe it's counter productive to alter his position on the football field.

The problem is we can't draft for sh...beans. Brooks Reed is a joke and Mercilus hasn't shown me first round worth.

Eliminate Wade and bring in someone like Ray Horton. Dude is a 3-4 beast, everywhere he goes he leaves an incredible defense behind. He can eye talent and coach it, get away from the good ole boy stuff and bring in fresh faces.
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Old 11-26-2013   #136
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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The reason why you would make the switch is to maximize your DL play. Ends in 43 are put in a position to impact the game dramatically more than where JJ is now. Not that he is having a whole lot of trouble currently..
This is too simplistic. 3-4 teams use a variety of alignments, as do 4-3 teams. Either way, Watt will be moved around to be most effective, which is what is done now. In a 4-3 this was done with guys like Reggie White. The issue with a 4-3 vs. 3-4 for impact DEs is primarily for those speed rushers and their comfort level playing with hand down vs. in 2 point stance and being asked to drop into coverage in greater frequency. Watt is not a speed rusher and will always be utilized from outside shade of OT and inside- something either defense can do effectively.
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Old 11-26-2013   #137
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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You only give hometown discounts if your home team is a contender or you have no market. Neither holds true here.
I disagree, with proper adjustments this team could definitely compete and contend next year, AFC South and even most of the conference consist of a couple of powerhouses and a bunch of mediocrity.

Don't know where you get this hot market for Orakpo either. I don't envision him an all pro, but a definite skill set as a pass rusher.
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Old 11-26-2013   #138
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller.
Dead in the redzone. I'd love to get an old school disciplinarian like Caughlin and couple him with 2 innovative coordinators. I want an old hat coach and college coordinators. I'm not really impressed with many of the pro coach options out there right now. blah
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Old 11-26-2013   #139
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
I disagree, with proper adjustments this team could definitely compete and contend next year, AFC South and even most of the conference consist of a couple of powerhouses and a bunch of mediocrity.
If I'm an NFL player I don't go to a (hopefully) 2-14 team to win a championship that just (hopefully) overhauled all of the front office and coaching staff.

I'd be more than willing to bet we will be bottom 10 in Vegas for odds to win the Super Bowl next year, despite the talent on the field and (hopefully) a new #1 pick. If that holds true there are at least 22 other spots that have a better odds-on possibility of getting you to the dance.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Don't know where you get this hot market for Orakpo either. I don't envision him an all pro, but a definite skill set as a pass rusher.
Don't know why you think I said "hot market". I implied he will have A market, as opposed to NO market. With that said... of course he will have a hot market. He's one of the best pass rushing LBs in the game. I expect him, barring a huge injury before end of season, to be one of the highest paid OLBs in the game. I forsee something right around, maybe a little under Clay Mathews $. 5 year/$60ish. Slow start to season coming off injury, but he's been looking very strong lately.

I'll never remember to revisit this thread when his money is handed down, but if you remember, feel free to look back on this and reply saying that I am correct.
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Old 11-26-2013   #140
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Default Re: What is the rebuilding path?

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
Dead in the redzone. I'd love to get an old school disciplinarian like Caughlin and couple him with 2 innovative coordinators. I want an old hat coach and college coordinators. I'm not really impressed with many of the pro coach options out there right now. blah
At this point I'd settle for something new to b*tch about. Crying about Kubiak is actually starting to get old now. He's so useless and dysfunctional a blind squirrel on the freeway has a better chance.
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