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Old 12-02-2013   #61
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Default Re: Were number 1

Over the last few weeks all of the top QBs have done little to pull away from the pack. I expect several to return to school. I still don't see an elite or "franchise" QB although some could develop. I'm still leaning towards going with Keenum and bringing in a vet FA on cheap. I could go either way with leaving yates on roster or cutting him.
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Old 12-02-2013   #62
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Default Re: Were number 1

I've watched the Redskins over the past two weeks and it has had an impact on me. They have their franchise QB, but what good is it when he's getting sacked or hit on half their plays? I get that you need a big time QB to compete for championships, and I agree with it, but I don't like the idea of drafting a top QB without the proper protection. You run the risk of hurting him either physically or changing his habits, which is what some people believe happened to Carr.

I'm starting to move into the "we need to get better in both trenches" mindset as the season progresses. Hopefully that doesn't mean we need to go tackle in round 1, pick 1-3, but if it does I am prepared to be satisfied with that.
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Old 12-02-2013   #63
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Default Re: Were number 1

From the way this QB class is shaping up, trading back appears to be the best option if that opportunity presented itself...IMHO of course.
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Old 12-02-2013   #64
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Some scouts may love Bridgewater, I'm sure you do. He may be the consensus #1 QB. But I think he's no franchise QB and spending the #1 pick in the draft on a guy like him would be a mistake. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you should reach for one. Reaching for a QB puts a team in the same situation as the Jags and Gabbert.
All great points. Bridgewater may or may not be a franchise QB, you never really know for sure until that guy is in the league (Luck/Manning being pretty much the only exceptions). He is certainly regarded as the guy with the highest potential for it in this draft though.
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Old 12-02-2013   #65
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I've watched the Redskins over the past two weeks and it has had an impact on me. They have their franchise QB, but what good is it when he's getting sacked or hit on half their plays? I get that you need a big time QB to compete for championships, and I agree with it, but I don't like the idea of drafting a top QB without the proper protection. You run the risk of hurting him either physically or changing his habits, which is what some people believe happened to Carr.

I'm starting to move into the "we need to get better in both trenches" mindset as the season progresses. Hopefully that doesn't mean we need to go tackle in round 1, pick 1-3, but if it does I am prepared to be satisfied with that.
Fair points. I would love to build up the rest of the roster as well. But it's a QB driven league and if you don't have one then you are left out in the cold.

RG3 is obviously not healthy this year. He carried a terrible team to the playoffs last year, as did Luck. Luck will do the same again this year.

Meanwhile, a team like the Browns has a good defense, a very good O-Line, and a young stud WR, and they can't sniff the playoffs because they don't have a QB.
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Old 12-02-2013   #66
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Fair points. I would love to build up the rest of the roster as well. But it's a QB driven league and if you don't have one then you are left out in the cold.

RG3 is obviously not healthy this year. He carried a terrible team to the playoffs last year, as did Luck. Luck will do the same again this year.

Meanwhile, a team like the Browns has a good defense, a very good O-Line, and a young stud WR, and they can't sniff the playoffs because they don't have a QB.
I don't disagree. I think there is merit to both points. The question is, can we dramatically improve our protection AND get our future franchise QB. I hope so.

The thing I worry about is a run on tackles, like the Duane Brown draft. You get 8 or so tackles taken in round 1, you may not be able to get your guy in round 2-4.
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Old 12-02-2013   #67
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Fair points. I would love to build up the rest of the roster as well. But it's a QB driven league and if you don't have one then you are left out in the cold.

RG3 is obviously not healthy this year. He carried a terrible team to the playoffs last year, as did Luck. Luck will do the same again this year.

Meanwhile, a team like the Browns has a good defense, a very good O-Line, and a young stud WR, and they can't sniff the playoffs because they don't have a QB.
I wuld rather go with more of a sure thing at 1-1. Matthews/Clowney and then trade back into the bottom of the 1st rd for a guy like Mettenberger/Bortles etc....

There's less risk at 25/32 drafting a QB this yr than taking Bridgewater at #1. Plus you get your elite pass rusher Clowney and your QB of the future. This fills the 2 most important positions on the team. Then you can use the rest of the draft to fix the OL. If this happened I would be a very happy fan.

What would be the cost to move up from 34 to say 25? A 2nd/4th this yr and a 2nd next yr? I dont have a trade value chart.
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Old 12-02-2013   #68
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I don't disagree. I think there is merit to both points. The question is, can we dramatically improve our protection AND get our future franchise QB. I hope so.

The thing I worry about is a run on tackles, like the Duane Brown draft. You get 8 or so tackles taken in round 1, you may not be able to get your guy in round 2-4.
The good thing about OT this year is it is very deep. We can still find a quality RT outside of the 1st round.
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Old 12-02-2013   #69
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
How else do you explain a guy like Gabbert going #10? Or Ponder going #12? What about Tannehill going #8 while Foles and Cousins go 3-4? How about Tebow going #25 or Josh Freeman going #17? What about Jamarcus Russell going #1?

Bridgewater has that upside that teams look for. McCarron does not. Does that mean Bridgewater will be the superior pro? No. But most people are expecting him to be.
Simple, it's the one position, with the most demand, which is also the hardest to fill. Without a good QB you cannot succeed. To many GMs don't have the patience and feel compelled to make something happen even when there is no there, there. The pressure of the job and the hot seat for a HC or GM often force them to make wrong decisions. Many of those faulty decisions are based on fear and missing on a Top QB more than actually finding a top QB. Basic human behavior. It only takes one team's desperate panic decision to prove you right or wrong. One thing that is often constant and consistent is a team or teams to make a desperate panic decisions. Because of this there will always be many more bad decisions than right decisions. It's the nature of the beast. HCs and GMs are people too.

Last edited by Texian; 12-02-2013 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 12-02-2013   #70
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I wuld rather go with more of a sure thing at 1-1. Matthews/Clowney and then trade back into the bottom of the 1st rd for a guy like Mettenberger/Bortles etc....

There's less risk at 25/32 drafting a QB this yr than taking Bridgewater at #1. Plus you get your elite pass rusher Clowney and your QB of the future. This fills the 2 most important positions on the team. Then you can use the rest of the draft to fix the OL. If this happened I would be a very happy fan.

What would be the cost to move up from 34 to say 25? A 2nd/4th this yr and a 2nd next yr? I dont have a trade value chart.
What makes Mettenberger or Bortles at #25 a better option than Bridgewater at #1? How is the risk less? You're trading 2-3 draft picks for that guy.

I understand landing a top prospect in Clowney, but how is that any different than taking Bridgewater #1 and grabbing a DE like Murphy, Crichton, or Martin at the top of the 2nd? In that scenario you grab a pass rusher + QB and don't lose picks.
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Old 12-02-2013   #71
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
The good thing about OT this year is it is very deep. We can still find a quality RT outside of the 1st round.
I would be very happy with a draft of

Rd.1 Clowney
Rd.1 Mettenberger
Rd.3 Morgan Moses.

Later this week I hope to do a mock with a couple of trade ups.
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Old 12-02-2013   #72
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Default Re: Were number 1

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I stand by statement. Media sportswriters and wanna be's love them some Teddy Bridgewater. NFL draft boards will NOT share in their enthusiasm.
It's your right to stand by your statement. But I'll just point out, it is odd that you are allowed to make assessments like the one above and state them as fact, but other posters are not.
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Old 12-02-2013   #73
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Simple, it's the one position in the most demand which is also the hardest to fill. Without a good QB you cannot succeed. To many GMs don't have the patience and feel compelled to make something happen even when there is no there, there. The pressure of the job and the hot seat for a HC or GM often force them to make wrong decisions. Many of those faulty decisions are based on fear and missing on a Top QB more than actually finding a top QB. Basic human behavior. It only takes one team's desperate panic decision to prove you right or wrong. One thing that is often constant and consistent is a team or teams to make a desperate panic decisions. Because of this there will always be many more bad decisions than right decisions. It's the nature of the beast. HCs and GMs are people too.
Very good points. It's hard to blame HC's or GM's though because if they don't find a QB that will invigorate the fanbase and satisfy the owner then they will be looking for a new job in 3 years. At least that's the case most of the time.
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Old 12-02-2013   #74
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Simple, it's the one position in the most demand which is also the hardest to fill. Without a good QB you cannot succeed. To many GMs don't have the patience and feel compelled to make something happen even when there is no there, there. The pressure of the job and the hot seat for a HC or GM often force them to make wrong decisions. Many of those faulty decisions are based on fear and missing on a Top QB more than actually finding a top QB. Basic human behavior. It only takes one team's desperate panic decision to prove you right or wrong. One thing that is often constant and consistent is a team or teams to make a desperate panic decisions. Because of this there will always be many more bad decisions than right decisions. It's the nature of the beast. HCs and GMs are people too.
Good point. Most bad QB decisions in this league appear to be made by GMs and HCs who are just taking a shot in the dark trying to avoid getting fired.

Picks like Gabbert and Ponder drive me nuts. It's a surefire way to set your franchise back an additional five years.
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Old 12-02-2013   #75
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Default Re: Were number 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I would be very happy with a draft of

Rd.1 Clowney
Rd.1 Mettenberger
Rd.3 Morgan Moses.

Later this week I hope to do a mock with a couple of trade ups.
I prefer Barr over Clowney personally, but there is no doubting that pass rusher, QB, and OT are our biggest needs.
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Old 12-02-2013   #76
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Default Re: Were number 1

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It's your right to stand by your statement. But I'll just point out, it is odd that you are allowed to make assessments like the one above and state them as fact, but other posters are not.
Standing by my statement is my opinion and doesn't necessarily make it a fact. If it makes you feel better and more comfortable, I stand by my opinion. If I ever make a statement that alludes to exactly what NFL Scouts think please ask me to provide a link for my comment. I probably won't be able to but I know plenty of links about what the media sportswriters are thinking. There are also 32 NFL teams and that likely means that there could be 32 different opinions.
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Old 12-02-2013   #77
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Standing by my statement is my opinion and doesn't necessarily make it a fact. If it makes you feel better and more comfortable, I stand by my opinion. If I ever make a statement that alludes to exactly what NFL Scouts think please ask me to provide a link for my comment. I probably won't be able to but I know plenty of links about what the media sportswriters are thinking. There are also 32 NFL teams and that likely means that there could be 32 different opinions.
All very much true. I was just curious as to why you would call out one poster for spouting off the opinions of scouts that he may or may not have access to, but then in the very next post exclaim so certainly that you know what NFL draft boards will look like.
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Old 12-02-2013   #78
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I don't disagree. I think there is merit to both points. The question is, can we dramatically improve our protection AND get our future franchise QB. I hope so.

The thing I worry about is a run on tackles, like the Duane Brown draft. You get 8 or so tackles taken in round 1, you may not be able to get your guy in round 2-4.
Picking first in the second round, I'm fairly sure we will be able to get a solid right tackle, barring a crazy run on them.
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Old 12-02-2013   #79
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Default Re: We are number 1

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What would be the cost to move up from 34 to say 25? A 2nd/4th this yr and a 2nd next yr? I dont have a trade value chart.
By the chart 34 (560 pts) to 25 (720 pts) would cost 86 (3rd round 160 pts) or a lower half 2nd round pick next season.

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What makes Mettenberger or Bortles at #25 a better option than Bridgewater at #1? How is the risk less? You're trading 2-3 draft picks for that guy.
I'd like an answer on this one as well. Is there not a guy who will be a good safe bet at RT in the upper 2nd?

I share some of the sure fire concerns over Bridgewater, Manziel, etc. but it sure does seem like you are accepting a game manager or much lower potential going to a McCarron or Mettenberger. Would it be so bad to have someone between Duane Brown and Winston plugged in at RT?
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Old 12-02-2013   #80
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Default Re: Were number 1

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
The good thing about OT this year is it is very deep. We can still find a quality RT outside of the 1st round.
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What makes Mettenberger or Bortles at #25 a better option than Bridgewater at #1? How is the risk less? You're trading 2-3 draft picks for that guy.

I understand landing a top prospect in Clowney, but how is that any different than taking Bridgewater #1 and grabbing a DE like Murphy, Crichton, or Martin at the top of the 2nd? In that scenario you grab a pass rusher + QB and don't lose picks.
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I would be very happy with a draft of

Rd.1 Clowney
Rd.1 Mettenberger
Rd.3 Morgan Moses.

Later this week I hope to do a mock with a couple of trade ups.
It's not uncommon for 6-8 OT to go in the first rd. There could be 6-7 OTs that could go in the first rd of 2014 draft. After that there is a drop off to 3rd and 4th Rd value. The Texans already have that with Williams and Quess.

IMHO I think a team who can draft Mettenberger, Murray or Bortles in the middle of Rd 1 will be better served with the better/best QBs in this draft.

I am currently in the camp of trading back. Especially if a team wants to offer up 3 1st RD draft picks to do so. That's what it will take plus some to move up to #1.

My preferential today is trading back, landing Bortles, Mettenberger or Murray as a QB. Irving, Kouandjio, Richardson or Scherff as OT in RD 1. DE Aaron Donald and TE Austin Sefarian-Jenkins in Rd 2. And an additional 2015 1st rd pick.

I know I accuse many of wishful thinking and hoping and I am aware that I have engaged on a large scale of doing exactly the same here with this post.
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