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Old 11-16-2013   #21
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I think you are overly concerned on both your flaws. Flipping sides is not at all unusual for an OT. Two of Brown's college seasons were spent at RT so the perspective is not new to him. Brown's cap hit does not go up substantially after a large bump he will get next season. At the height of his contract he will still be under the 2013 franchise tag number of $9,828,000. His contract is not back end loaded on the cap and is not a burdensome contract for someone of his caliber. 33 years is not time for the retirement home for many OLmen.

I'm not saying that he couldn't handle the flip, just that it wouldn't necessarily be easier on him, handling the right side, thus extending his career like BB alluded to. Most teams rush the QB hard from both sides, the right side isn't necessarily any easier than the left side. If DB's mobility slowed with age then he might benefit from a move to LG instead of RT. All of this is years away though. I really like the idea of having 2 stud OT's, it's long overdue to improve our O-line, but I also think that there's better value to be had with a trade down and getting Erving or Kouandjio in the mid 1st and getting extra picks in the process.
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Old 11-16-2013   #22
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

i'm worried we might almost have to lose out to get matthews. going through the last several drafts, the top offensive tackle is coming off the board fast. if trend continues, we'd probably have to pick 3rd to get the top tackle unless this QB heavy draft goes that direction right off the bat. here's the first offensive tackle selected as well as number of tackles taken in the top 10. only once in the last 8 years has the top guy been taken later than the 4th overall pick. i know every year is different, but teams arent letting offensive linemen slide past them.

2013 - 1st (3)
2012 - 4th (1)
2011 - 9th (1)
2010 - 4th (2)
2009 - 2nd (3)
2008 - 1st (1)
2007 - 3rd (2)
2006 - 4th (1)
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Old 11-16-2013   #23
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
i'm worried we might almost have to lose out to get matthews. going through the last several drafts, the top offensive tackle is coming off the board fast. if trend continues, we'd probably have to pick 3rd to get the top tackle unless this QB heavy draft goes that direction right off the bat. here's the first offensive tackle selected as well as number of tackles taken in the top 10. only once in the last 8 years has the top guy been taken later than the 4th overall pick. i know every year is different, but teams arent letting offensive linemen slide past them.

2013 - 1st (3)
2012 - 4th (1)
2011 - 9th (1)
2010 - 4th (2)
2009 - 2nd (3)
2008 - 1st (1)
2007 - 3rd (2)
2006 - 4th (1)
If they weren't able to land Matthews , there are two other high quality OT's in Lewan and Irving. I wouldn't take either in the top 5 but would at ~8-10 , so if you could engineer a trade down to that area .... That likely gives you three picks among the top 60 players.
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Old 11-16-2013   #24
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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I have only about 15 years of real nfl watching experience. How many premier LT's switch to other positions with the sand team to pro long their career? .
None. Well none that I can remember.
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Old 11-17-2013   #25
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

My problem with Clowney is that he seems to play when he feels like it otherwise he doesn't care. His attitude could change with laders like AJ and JJ Watt but I don't want to take that risk.

I understand the Matthews love because of his father and the fact that he played locally with Elkins HOWEVER

How about Taylor Lewan?

He's a monster (6'8" 300-ish lb.) and a road grader and plays with aggression and is a loyal football stud (came back for his Senior year). He's not as refined as Matthew but has a ton of potential and can improve in his pass-blocking skills.
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Old 11-17-2013   #26
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

I'm not sure why you guys are equating playing with bone spurs or being schemed against to not playing with effort.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind a guy like Lewan, though I reiterate that we should get a RT only if we're trading down. I'd rather get a RT and extra picks than blow a top five (three?) pick at that position when the defensive talent is there.
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Old 11-17-2013   #27
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by Texan4Ever View Post
My problem with Clowney is that he seems to play when he feels like it otherwise he doesn't care. His attitude could change with laders like AJ and JJ Watt but I don't want to take that risk.

I understand the Matthews love because of his father and the fact that he played locally with Elkins HOWEVER

How about Taylor Lewan?

He's a monster (6'8" 300-ish lb.) and a road grader and plays with aggression and is a loyal football stud (came back for his Senior year). He's not as refined as Matthew but has a ton of potential and can improve in his pass-blocking skills.
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If they weren't able to land Matthews , there are two other high quality OT's in Lewan and Irving. I wouldn't take either in the top 5 but would at ~8-10 , so if you could engineer a trade down to that area .... That likely gives you three picks among the top 60 players.

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Old 11-18-2013   #28
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

Duane Brown ... David Quessenberry ... Chris Myers ... Brandon Brooks ... Jake Mathews
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Old 11-18-2013   #29
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

I like Matthews, but RT seems almost like a luxury pick when the two biggest holes are QB and outside pass rusher
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Old 11-18-2013   #30
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

ROT is no longer a luxury in my mind.

A. We get killed from the right side of the line more often than not. Teams put good pass rushers on both sides of the line or move their best guy over.

B. Case prefers to scramble towards his right. If we stick with Keenum this becomes an important consideration

C. Our running game towards the right side has been horrible 2 seasons in a row.

It's a new age of NFL offense, all kinds of old theories are out the window.
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Old 11-18-2013   #31
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
I like Matthews, but RT seems almost like a luxury pick when the two biggest holes are QB and outside pass rusher
And just try to image his name is not Matthews, but instead Smith or Jones, and he probably won't be quite so appealing to you.
Looks like we are least top 10, maybe top 5 or higher in Aprils Draft, way too much to use on a RT.
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Old 11-18-2013   #32
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
ROT is no longer a luxury in my mind.

A. We get killed from the right side of the line more often than not. Teams put good pass rushers on both sides of the line or move their best guy over.

B. Case prefers to scramble towards his right. If we stick with Keenum this becomes an important consideration

C. Our running game towards the right side has been horrible 2 seasons in a row.

It's a new age of NFL offense, all kinds of old theories are out the window.
Considering that he was pulled yesterday, I kind of think we know the organization's outlook on Keenum.

If you want a QB, you have to get them in the first round
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Old 11-18-2013   #33
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

I honestly don't care about his name or his family. I don't even care if we draft him. There are 3-4 candidates for a solid RT in this draft. However leaving it till end of the 3rd or later will more than likely not upgrade the position for next season (maybe some seasons after that).

We were ahead by 3 when Keenum was pulled. Just throwing that out there. Not advocating holding off on a QB either. I can live with DE, ILB, RT or QB early
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Old 11-18-2013   #34
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
I honestly don't care about his name or his family. I don't even care if we draft him. There are 3-4 candidates for a solid RT in this draft. However leaving it till end of the 3rd or later will more than likely not upgrade the position for next season (maybe some seasons after that).

We were ahead by 3 when Keenum was pulled. Just throwing that out there. Not advocating holding off on a QB either. I can live with DE, ILB, RT or QB early
I like the mock Texian has been throwing out, wherein we draft Manziel (or any high QB and whether at our natural position or after trading down) and then an RT in round 2. Maybe even trade down followed by a trade up into the late first to double dip.
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Old 11-18-2013   #35
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

The only way you consider RT is if keenum is the guy or can be the guy. Otherwise, you're going QB.
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Old 11-18-2013   #36
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

Trades in first round are interesting but if that is your position, how about explaining the trade you think will work? Name the team and what you think a realistic trade down would be. Come on, challenge yourself.
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Old 11-18-2013   #37
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Trades in first round are interesting but if that is your position, how about explaining the trade you think will work? Name the team and what you think a realistic trade down would be. Come on, challenge yourself.
Teams that need a left tackle more than we need a 1st-round right tackle? Pittsburgh or San Diego alone may want in on Matthews or Lewan, Tennessee may decide to end the Locker experiment and grab a quarterback, etc. Trading down with Pittsburgh, assuming things stay as they are, could mean going from 3 to only 8, and could mean as much as another first or second next year in addition to other picks.
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Old 11-18-2013   #38
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Originally Posted by Texan4Ever View Post
My problem with Clowney is that he seems to play when he feels like it otherwise he doesn't care. His attitude could change with laders like AJ and JJ Watt but I don't want to take that risk.

I understand the Matthews love because of his father and the fact that he played locally with Elkins HOWEVER

How about Taylor Lewan?

He's a monster (6'8" 300-ish lb.) and a road grader and plays with aggression and is a loyal football stud (came back for his Senior year). He's not as refined as Matthew but has a ton of potential and can improve in his pass-blocking skills.
With Lewan you get a giant animal with a nasty demeanor, but you also get a guy who will take cheap shots and commit stupid dead ball infractions. A couple of games this season I have been embarrassed watching his antics.

But in response to the OP, I think you have to take your QB first then start filling gaps. Also I am in the mindset that with Brown, B. Williams, Qberry and some depth that tackle is low on the draft wish list. After QB I would rather upgrade LG and focus on defense. Maybe take another low round shot on a tackle.

I think we are going to see a huge turnover of this roster this coming season so projecting need is almost impossible.
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Old 11-18-2013   #39
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Teams that need a left tackle more than we need a 1st-round right tackle? Pittsburgh or San Diego alone may want in on Matthews or Lewan, Tennessee may decide to end the Locker experiment and grab a quarterback, etc. Trading down with Pittsburgh, assuming things stay as they are, could mean going from 3 to only 8, and could mean as much as another first or second next year in addition to other picks.
Why trade up for Matthews if Lewan or Kouandijo or Irving or Richardson are almost as good as others have posted? Can't see either of those teams giving up much when they can sit tight and get a decent Olineman. Chargers could get a very good OG staying put.

Titans? Maybe but not sure if we'd help them get better unless it is a huge offer.
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Old 11-18-2013   #40
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Default Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

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Why trade up for Matthews if Lewan or Kouandijo or Irving or Richardson are almost as good as others have posted? Can't see either of those teams giving up much when they can sit tight and get a decent Olineman. Chargers could get a very good OG staying put.

Titans? Maybe but not sure if we'd help them get better unless it is a huge offer.
I don't think the way our season is going we'll have to trade up for him. It's likely that the 2-3 teams in front of us will be looking to draft QB or defense (i.e. Clowney) before tackle.
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