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Old 11-19-2013   #121
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
In regards to Brooks Reed, I think the bottom line is that he isn't a very good player. He's not effective enough at OLB. People want to move him inside or move him to a more traditional LB role, assuming we move to a 4-3, because it's convenient. The problem is that he hasn't shown the ability to be a good player in that role. You end up with defensive problems when you start moving guys around simply for convenience. Bottom line, like I said, is that he isn't very good and is another failed draft pick by this administration. I'd look at just replacing him period.
I get that, which is why Leaving Cushing at MLB and drafting somebody like Reilly in the 3d or trading up for somebody like your boy Christian Jones in the middle of the 2nd rd, would address the LB need.

All of the holes cant be filled in one offseason. I would be happy if they fixed the trenches this yr. The below would make mevey happy. Pass ush fixed, run defense much improved, RT albatross removed. Then you've got the rds 4-7 to fill in depth. If somebody like Belue or Skov fell to the bottom of the 3rd the new regime would have the ammo to move up and pick them.

Being at the top of the 4-5th rd can be used to add another impact player. The bottom of the 3rd/top of the 4th seems to be the breaking point talent wise in this draft. IMHO

Rd.1 Clowney
Rd.2 Schreff
Rd.3 Carrethers
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Old 11-19-2013   #122
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

I see a lot of guys mocking Scherff to us in the 2nd round. That isn't going to happen. He's either going to get a top 25 grade and go pro or go back for his Senior year.

He will be a top 15 pick in 2015 if he goes back for another year.
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Old 11-19-2013   #123
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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I see a lot of guys mocking Scherff to us in the 2nd round. That isn't going to happen. He's either going to get a top 25 grade and go pro or go back for his Senior year.

He will be a top 15 pick in 2015 if he goes back for another year.
Jake Matthews seems to be the consensus #1 OT and Top 5 pick. How do rank the following: Cyrus Kouandjio, Taylor Lewan, Cameron Erving, Antonio Richardson, Brandon Scherff.

Do you see them all as 1st RD draft picks? Highly unusual for 6 OT to be drafted in the 1st RD, might be a record. On average 3-4, last year 5.

Cedric Ogbuehi has stated he's returning to Texas A&M and moving over to LT to take Jake Matthews spot.
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Old 11-19-2013   #124
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Jake Matthews seems to be the consensus #1 OT and Top 5 pick. How do rank the following: Cyrus Kouandjio, Taylor Lewan, Cameron Erving, Antonio Richardson, Brandon Scherff.

Do you see them all as 1st RD draft picks? Highly unusual for 6 OT to be drafted in the 1st RD, might be a record. On average 3-4, last year 5.

Cedric Ogbuehi has stated he's returning to Texas A&M and moving over to LT to take Jake Matthews spot.
1. Matthews (top 5)
2. Kouandjio (top 10)
3. Richardson (top 15)
4. Lewan (top 20)
5. Erving (top 30)
6. Scherff (top 30)

This year is loaded at OT. Scherff will probably go back and be a top 15 pick or higher instead of being a late 1st-early 2nd this year. I think Erving will declare, but if he doesn't then OT will be loaded again next year.
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Old 11-19-2013   #125
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
1. Matthews (top 5)
2. Kouandjio (top 10)
3. Richardson (top 15)
4. Lewan (top 20)
5. Erving (top 30)
6. Scherff (top 30)

This year is loaded at OT. Scherff will probably go back and be a top 15 pick or higher instead of being a late 1st-early 2nd this year. I think Erving will declare, but if he doesn't then OT will be loaded again next year.
I have them a bit different ....


Matthews
Erving
Lewan
Kouandjo
Scherff


You could probably ask 10 scouts and they would all have them differently too ... I think Erving & Lewan are very close in talent.
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Old 11-19-2013   #126
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Highly unusual for 6 OT to be drafted in the 1st RD, might be a record.
Purely as trivia, Duane Brown was the 7th T taken in the 1st round in 2008.
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Old 11-19-2013   #127
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

Things will probably change after the combine, but with what we know now, I don't see an impact rookie QB coming out. So to me, that's not worth a first round pick when you need talent at so many other spots. IMO, you can pick up a QB in the 3rd round this year and probably have close to the same chance of success as the currently projected first rounders.

IMO, Derek Newton is the worst player on offense. He's atrocious in pass pro. I mean, a fkn cone would provide more of an obstacle on some of the pressures and sacks he's given up. His play is an abomination. So the team doesn't have an NFL level right tackle right now. So Matthews would be my choice (or whatever consensus #1 RT is available). Apart from that:

ILB: There are no starters on this team outside of Cushing. There hasn't been a starting caliber ILB on this team outside Cushing for two years. Maybe they should think about getting one, hmm?

NT: Last good nose tackle the Texans had is doing radio on SR610.

RB: Tate will be gone and Foster has been overworked. I don't feel comfortable relying on Foster 100% and his best play has come when he's had true competition pushing him. Get a replacement for Tate. Good RBs can be had in rounds 3-5 typically.

QB: Take one in the 2nd or 3rd round, IMO. Murray has potential to be the best of the bunch, I think. If Keenum totally craters and the team has no faith in him, grab Mariota in the first round. Either way, it should be an open competition.

Positions of lesser need:

G/C: Quessenberry gives me hope for this position. Ben Jones is awful, so I'm not counting on him at all. Brandon Brooks looks like he could develop; we'll see. Would be good to pick one up in later rounds.

S: Not sure about Manning's contract situation, but I'd like to see someone better than Keo out there with Swearinger.

CB: Always need CBs in a passing league, and none of the Texans CBs are all that great. McCain might be the worst player on defense, so he has to go.

So I guess my ideal draft would look something like T, NT/QB/LB in 2-4, RB/G/CB in 5-6, dealer's choice in rd 7. That still leaves holes, but they didn't create this mess overnight and it won't be fixed overnight (or three nights, in the case of the draft).
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Old 11-19-2013   #128
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

Everytime I see this thread title it bugs me, if? IF? there is no IF.

WHEN we get a Top 5 pick....
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Old 11-19-2013   #129
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

I think quess is a better fit at RT.
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Old 11-19-2013   #130
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Things will probably change after the combine, but with what we know now, I don't see an impact rookie QB coming out. So to me, that's not worth a first round pick when you need talent at so many other spots. IMO, you can pick up a QB in the 3rd round this year and probably have close to the same chance of success as the currently projected first rounders.

IMO, Derek Newton is the worst player on offense. He's atrocious in pass pro. I mean, a fkn cone would provide more of an obstacle on some of the pressures and sacks he's given up. His play is an abomination. So the team doesn't have an NFL level right tackle right now. So Matthews would be my choice (or whatever consensus #1 RT is available). Apart from that:

ILB: There are no starters on this team outside of Cushing. There hasn't been a starting caliber ILB on this team outside Cushing for two years. Maybe they should think about getting one, hmm?

NT: Last good nose tackle the Texans had is doing radio on SR610.

RB: Tate will be gone and Foster has been overworked. I don't feel comfortable relying on Foster 100% and his best play has come when he's had true competition pushing him. Get a replacement for Tate. Good RBs can be had in rounds 3-5 typically.

QB: Take one in the 2nd or 3rd round, IMO. Murray has potential to be the best of the bunch, I think. If Keenum totally craters and the team has no faith in him, grab Mariota in the first round. Either way, it should be an open competition.

Positions of lesser need:

G/C: Quessenberry gives me hope for this position. Ben Jones is awful, so I'm not counting on him at all. Brandon Brooks looks like he could develop; we'll see. Would be good to pick one up in later rounds.

S: Not sure about Manning's contract situation, but I'd like to see someone better than Keo out there with Swearinger.

CB: Always need CBs in a passing league, and none of the Texans CBs are all that great. McCain might be the worst player on defense, so he has to go.

So I guess my ideal draft would look something like T, NT/QB/LB in 2-4, RB/G/CB in 5-6, dealer's choice in rd 7. That still leaves holes, but they didn't create this mess overnight and it won't be fixed overnight (or three nights, in the case of the draft).
Just curious, what about manzel don't you like?
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Old 11-19-2013   #131
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Just curious, what about manzel don't you like?
A few things. First, I tend to favor guys who have put in at least three years in college. More reps, more prep, less of a transition to the pro game. If they run a pro style offense in college, I take that into consideration. Second, I don't prefer running QBs. I like guys who can run, but don't want to. Injuries happen, age happens, and I want a QB that has success because of his mind and arm rather than his legs. Finally, I want a guy at the QB position that doesn't come off as immature. Manziel's not a bad guy, but I believe he has a little growing up to do (many of us did at that age). The pro lifestyle is going to eat him up if he comes at it with the same mindset that he has done in college, IMO. Think about the things that JJ Watt says and does and the things Manziel says and does, for example.

All that said, I don't dislike Manziel as a player or prospect. But I tend to think he's going to move up the draft boards and I don't see the first round value there that some team will be willing to spend. I feel the same way about Mariota. He is most likely going in the first round, but to me he's a bit of a project. I don't really like for the team to take a project in the first round. JMO. If the Texans could pick up Manziel in the second round like the 49ers got Kaepernick, I'd be happy about that. But even he sat on the bench for a year behind Alex Smith. Who knows if he would have looked as good as a true rookie?

Moreover, I feel like the team should look for value at the QB position this year, because I don't feel like any one of these QBs is the next no-brainer, top-of-the-first QB that you just have to take because you sucked that year. Hell, I wouldn't be opposed to going into next year with Keenum, some vet or pseudo-vet, and TJ Yates. Then go after Winston the following year. That's a guy I can get excited about if his current trajectory of play continues.
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Old 11-19-2013   #132
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

All I can think of is "Are the Aggie nut-huggers going to be as bad as the Longhorn nut-huggers were?"

I mean, us UH nut-huggers are by our very nature limited in number and more or less used to not being able to garner much support among the masses. Longhorn nut-huggers were insufferable and we've got six games to go before the season is even over and I'm already gagging every time one of you guys brings up Manziel.

It's going to be a long, long, long......long offseason.
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Old 11-19-2013   #133
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

We need to get Watt some help.
Or
We need to shore up the offensive line

Early

Wade smith will be gone IIRC
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Old 11-19-2013   #134
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
All I can think of is "Are the Aggie nut-huggers going to be as bad as the Longhorn nut-huggers were?"

I mean, us UH nut-huggers are by our very nature limited in number and more or less used to not being able to garner much support among the masses. Longhorn nut-huggers were insufferable and we've got six games to go before the season is even over and I'm already gagging every time one of you guys brings up Manziel.

It's going to be a long, long, long......long offseason.
Hey ... don't be dissing Petty from Baylor . He could be another Joe Montania .
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Old 11-19-2013   #135
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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I think quess is a better fit at RT.
If that's the case then that would open up Richardson/Jackson/Steen in rds 2-3.
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Old 11-19-2013   #136
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post

G/C: Quessenberry gives me hope for this position. Ben Jones is awful, so I'm not counting on him at all. Brandon Brooks looks like he could develop; we'll see. Would be good to pick one up in later rounds.
.
its been really hard for me to evaluate Brooks season because the RT next to him has been abysmal. But i think he gets the starting job next year and Ques plays at LG. hopefully the torn labrum of Williams heals well and his our RT.
that would be a huge bonus going into the draft process
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Old 11-19-2013   #137
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
In regards to Brooks Reed, I think the bottom line is that he isn't a very good player. He's not effective enough at OLB. People want to move him inside or move him to a more traditional LB role, assuming we move to a 4-3, because it's convenient. The problem is that he hasn't shown the ability to be a good player in that role. You end up with defensive problems when you start moving guys around simply for convenience. Bottom line, like I said, is that he isn't very good and is another failed draft pick by this administration. I'd look at just replacing him period.
yeah i agree to the point that i think moving him to OLB wouldn't be a good idea. your fitting a square peg into a round hole.

rather him play at DE in a 4-3.

But i don't think his been as bad as some think this year. his an average player but for a 2nd round pick, this isn't good enough
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Old 11-19-2013   #138
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by aussie_texan View Post
its been really hard for me to evaluate Brooks season because the RT next to him has been abysmal. But i think he gets the starting job next year and Ques plays at LG. hopefully the torn labrum of Williams heals well and his our RT.
that would be a huge bonus going into the draft process
i think brooks is going to be just fine. he still has some technique issues to improve, but most of his errors seem to be coming from scheme and the talent beside him. it could be my imagination but myers seems to almost always go left when pass blocking and newton sucks - brooks often being left on an island. when part of a gelling line brooks has shown to be downright beastly, stoning his man in pass pro and generates a good push when blocking.
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Old 11-19-2013   #139
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
All I can think of is "Are the Aggie nut-huggers going to be as bad as the Longhorn nut-huggers were?"

I mean, us UH nut-huggers are by our very nature limited in number and more or less used to not being able to garner much support among the masses. Longhorn nut-huggers were insufferable and we've got six games to go before the season is even over and I'm already gagging every time one of you guys brings up Manziel.

It's going to be a long, long, long......long offseason.
FYI - I am neither a an Aggie or a Longhorn. I like Manziel simply because I haven't seen another draft eligible college QB who can do what he does on a football field. As for the Longhorns I am very impressed with Mason Walters-Dominic Espinosa-Trey Hopkins, they may be the best interior OL in college football. Not that the impressed the other Horns. So I am really an impartial evaluator.
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Old 11-19-2013   #140
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
A few things. First, I tend to favor guys who have put in at least three years in college. More reps, more prep, less of a transition to the pro game. If they run a pro style offense in college, I take that into consideration. Second, I don't prefer running QBs. I like guys who can run, but don't want to. Injuries happen, age happens, and I want a QB that has success because of his mind and arm rather than his legs. Finally, I want a guy at the QB position that doesn't come off as immature. Manziel's not a bad guy, but I believe he has a little growing up to do (many of us did at that age). The pro lifestyle is going to eat him up if he comes at it with the same mindset that he has done in college, IMO. Think about the things that JJ Watt says and does and the things Manziel says and does, for example.

All that said, I don't dislike Manziel as a player or prospect. But I tend to think he's going to move up the draft boards and I don't see the first round value there that some team will be willing to spend. I feel the same way about Mariota. He is most likely going in the first round, but to me he's a bit of a project. I don't really like for the team to take a project in the first round. JMO. If the Texans could pick up Manziel in the second round like the 49ers got Kaepernick, I'd be happy about that. But even he sat on the bench for a year behind Alex Smith. Who knows if he would have looked as good as a true rookie?

Moreover, I feel like the team should look for value at the QB position this year, because I don't feel like any one of these QBs is the next no-brainer, top-of-the-first QB that you just have to take because you sucked that year. Hell, I wouldn't be opposed to going into next year with Keenum, some vet or pseudo-vet, and TJ Yates. Then go after Winston the following year. That's a guy I can get excited about if his current trajectory of play continues.
Good post, well thought out, common sense. The NFL tends to agree with your assessment of 3 years. Conventional wisdom says rookie NFL QBs tend have better early success if they've 30 college starts. That's why so many college QBs return to school. In the case of Manziel he would finish up with 26 starts. He's already doing so much more than other QBs I'm not sure another 4 college games will do anything for him.

I understand your maturity comments. I must say I can overlook many of Manziels Heisman travails. However the Manning Passing Academy episode does bother me. I would want to talk to the Mannings and question JF about it. This could be a deal breaker for me.

Finally, you're in Indy with just under two minutes, you trail 24-31 and you've the ball. Whose hands do you want to put the ball in? Jake Matthews? Jadevon Clowney? Anthony Barr? Teddy Bridgewater? Marcus Mariota? or Johnny Manziel? For me this is a no brainer, it's Johnny Manziel.
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