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Old 11-18-2013   #101
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
I fully expected Texans to win a few of these match-ups but I was wrong. QB position is beyond psycho this point. Kubiak/Schaub as I've maintained must be joined @ the hip & it's time to severe this relationship from organization. Both must pay the ultimate price, being cut, discharged, fired

Offensive Line is part old/new never developed into a cohesive unit hoped. No longer running the ZBS only abolition the running game has dwindled , becoming incapable of converting 3rd downs or TD's with no depth whatsoever.

The defense runs through one player, Watt, without him there is nothing. Still highly graded stat wise, he is just that good, but I would argue he needs more help than Case Keenum.

For once special teams did not beat you. Yet Texans are 2-8 & 10 1/2 point favorites against Jacksonville?????????????????????? which brings us to distinct possibility both teams will have top 5 picks, both needing a QB/OT/DE. Could be we repeat 2003 draft when Detroit selected #2 & Texans #3, Lions selected Charles Rogers, Texans Andre Johnson?

Point is one team will pull a potential hall of fame player the other maybe not so much. Bridewater/Clowney both most talented prospects offensive/defensive hence both maybe gone by 3-5 selection. So after that do you target highest grade or highest need/grade? Since Texans need everything, doesn't it come back to best player (which Andre was)?

What I would like to see within this thread is for all of us to come to a consensus in order the next 3 best players available.

If bridgewater and clowney are gone, gotta go with matthews.....not sold on mariota. If either of the aforementioned guys are still on the board, i think you've got to think long and hard about both guys.
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Old 11-18-2013   #102
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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If we have a top 5 pick, I am taking either Barr or Matthews, possibly Nix depending on his health situation.

I like Clowney's skill set but there are question marks there that I don't have good enough answers to.
I remember ND Kalu saying that the Texan fans are going to realize just how much Mario meant by having to be accounted for . I guess the same thing could be said about Barwin because he almost got there a bunch last year . JJ is having a good year but he sure could use some help on the pass rush . That's my reason for Barr .

The Texans have gotten old on the OL quick . Wade Smith is down and Ben Jones isn't a guard . Brennan Williams seemed big and athletic but I'm not sure he likes to play football . Quis is a ZBS guy and the new coach may not like that . They need a RT bad so Matthews .

If we continue to suck and I see no reason why not except for the Jags , we get an early 2nd rd pick . You can get a good QB prospect just not as tall , a good RT prospect just may not be a LT in the future , an elite pass rusher will be long gone , a really good guard prospect .
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Old 11-18-2013   #103
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

A poll would be nice

3 Matthews 11
4 Barr 11
5 Manziel 11
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Old 11-18-2013   #104
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
I remember ND Kalu saying that the Texan fans are going to realize just how much Mario meant by having to be accounted for . I guess the same thing could be said about Barwin because he almost got there a bunch last year . JJ is having a good year but he sure could use some help on the pass rush . That's my reason for Barr .

The Texans have gotten old on the OL quick . Wade Smith is down and Ben Jones isn't a guard . Brennan Williams seemed big and athletic but I'm not sure he likes to play football . Quis is a ZBS guy and the new coach may not like that . They need a RT bad so Matthews .

If we continue to suck and I see no reason why not except for the Jags , we get an early 2nd rd pick . You can get a good QB prospect just not as tall , a good RT prospect just may not be a LT in the future , an elite pass rusher will be long gone , a really good guard prospect .
I must agree with much of what you say, I only differ w/ Johnny Texan in RD 1 because the Texans still have no answer to Andrew Luck. I have watched Barr in 3 games this year and came away not impressed. To tall, loses leverage, former RB and as a result looks weak on defense side of the ball, is easily blocked and when engaged can't shake block. If Barr goes top 10 I see a bust. Instead of Barr I like Attachou in Rd 3 (compares to Brian Orakpo) and I think will have a better career than Barr.

I do like OT Brandon Scherff in Rd 2 and is my answer to RT. I also like Trey Hopkins in Rd 7 to play LG. The one and maybe the only thing I like about Longhorns is play by Hopkins, Espinoza and Walters. I'm not sure there is a better interior line in college football. I'm still amazed at how these 3 blew away Oklahoma DL and controlled that game. They were dominant against OK St. I still don't understand how the University of Texas Longhorns has Case McCoy as their QB.
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Old 11-18-2013   #105
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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I must agree with much of what you say, I only differ w/ Johnny Texan in RD 1 because the Texans still have no answer to Andrew Luck. I have watched Barr in 3 games this year and came away not impressed. To tall, loses leverage, former RB and as a result looks weak on defense side of the ball, is easily blocked and when engaged can't shake block. If Barr goes top 10 I see a bust.

I do like OT Brandon Scherff in Rd 2 and is my answer to RT. I also like Trey Hopkins in Rd 7 to play LG. The one and maybe the only thing I like about Longhorns is play by Hopkins, Espinoza and Walters. I'm not sure there is a better interior line in college football. I'm still amazed at how these 3 blew away Oklahoma DL and controlled that game. They were dominant against OK St. I still don't understand how the University of Texas Longhorns has Case McCoy as their QB.
The road is littered with QB studs from Texas who didn't go to UT the past decade .

Hopkins is from North Shore isn't he ?

I think Johnny can be a good player , a cross between Russell Wilson and Brees . His off the field stuff doesn't compare with some of the all time greats like Favre .

The Texans have to get better OLBs if they continue the 3-4 . If they don't I hope the move Cushing back to OLB .
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Old 11-18-2013   #106
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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A poll would be nice

3 Matthews 11
4 Barr 11
5 Manziel 1
With all the mocks up , that's a poll . I think the players change but the positions of needs the same .
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Old 11-18-2013   #107
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
With all the mocks up , that's a poll . I think the players change but the positions of needs the same .
yeah, but easier to keep up with, lol

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/pol...ts&pollid=1429
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Old 11-18-2013   #108
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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I remember ND Kalu saying that the Texan fans are going to realize just how much Mario meant by having to be accounted for . I guess the same thing could be said about Barwin because he almost got there a bunch last year . JJ is having a good year but he sure could use some help on the pass rush . That's my reason for Barr.
Part of the reason is because Wade changed the defense. Last year we were running a 3-4 Over. Without getting technical, this means Reed and Ninja had favorable matchups while Watt had to deal with double teams inside and Barwin has to two-gap on the backside. That's tough duty for Barwin, but it's something he and Mario were pretty good at. It's tough for Watt also, but he's a freak.

This year we changed to a 3-4 Under. The reason we changed is because Wade didn't think Mercilus was strong enough against the run to two-gap like Barwin did last year or Mario did the year before. So you shift the line under so that he basically has a 1-on-1 matchup every play. This hurts Reed because now he has to two-gap on the strong side. The reason he two-gaps is because you don't want to two-gap Watt. Two-gaping Watt is a waste of elite talent while two-gaping Reed is not. Reed is basically a contain end which is why he hasn't offered much of anything in the form of pass rush.

To add onto your post, if you draft Barr then he would play SLB. He's athletic enough to rush the passer and cover TE's. However, you don't want him two-gapping on the outside because that's wasting elite talent. So you would basically slide everything back to an Over and give him a favorable matchup and ask Mercilus to grow up and two-gap the backside. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. He had decent production at WLB last year, but it was mainly on passing downs. I'm not sure how he holds up two-gapping the backside on run downs.
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Old 11-18-2013   #109
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Part of the reason is because Wade changed the defense. Last year we were running a 3-4 Over. Without getting technical, this means Reed and Ninja had favorable matchups while Watt had to deal with double teams inside and Barwin has to two-gap on the backside. That's tough duty for Barwin, but it's something he and Mario were pretty good at. It's tough for Watt also, but he's a freak.

This year we changed to a 3-4 Under. The reason we changed is because Wade didn't think Mercilus was strong enough against the run to two-gap like Barwin did last year or Mario did the year before. So you shift the line under so that he basically has a 1-on-1 matchup every play. This hurts Reed because now he has to two-gap on the strong side. The reason he two-gaps is because you don't want to two-gap Watt. Two-gaping Watt is a waste of elite talent while two-gaping Reed is not. Reed is basically a contain end which is why he hasn't offered much of anything in the form of pass rush.

To add onto your post, if you draft Barr then he would play SLB. He's athletic enough to rush the passer and cover TE's. However, you don't want him two-gapping on the outside because that's wasting elite talent. So you would basically slide everything back to an Over and give him a favorable matchup and ask Mercilus to grow up and two-gap the backside. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. He had decent production at WLB last year, but it was mainly on passing downs. I'm not sure how he holds up two-gapping the backside on run downs.
What if Wade's not back ? What if Clowney is there ?
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Old 11-18-2013   #110
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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What if Wade's not back ? What if Clowney is there ?
Then all bets are off. That's why I'm hesitant to fall in love with any prospect right now. We have no idea who will be coaching the team next year, thus no idea what offense or defense we will be running.
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Old 11-18-2013   #111
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Then all bets are off. That's why I'm hesitant to fall in love with any prospect right now. We have no idea who will be coaching the team next year, thus no idea what offense or defense we will be running.
You are Wolverine fan because of Michigan ?
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Old 11-18-2013   #112
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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You are Wolverine fan because of Michigan ?
Yes
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Old 11-18-2013   #113
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

if you take clowney does that mean you move to a 4-3??
If so what happens to reed and mercilus?
Who plays outside 'backer ??

i think this would be a very tough transition
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Old 11-18-2013   #114
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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if you take clowney does that mean you move to a 4-3??
If so what happens to reed and mercilus?
Who plays outside 'backer ??

i think this would be a very tough transition
Do not forget Trevardo Williams in this scenario.
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Old 11-18-2013   #115
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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if you take clowney does that mean you move to a 4-3??
If so what happens to reed and mercilus?
Who plays outside 'backer ??

i think this would be a very tough transition
I think Clowney would be even better at OLB.
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Old 11-19-2013   #116
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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if you take clowney does that mean you move to a 4-3??
If so what happens to reed and mercilus?
Who plays outside 'backer ??

i think this would be a very tough transition
Not really,

They could move Cushing outside and draft a MLB. Or leave Cushing at MLB move Reed to the strong side and draft a WLB. I see Mercilus as a situational pass rushing DE. Mercilus/Mitchell/Watt/Clowney will be able to get to the QB regularly.
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Old 11-19-2013   #117
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Not really,

They could move Cushing outside and draft a MLB. Or leave Cushing at MLB move Reed to the strong side and draft a WLB. I see Mercilus as a situational pass rushing DE. Mercilus/Mitchell/Watt/Clowney will be able to get to the QB regularly.
This is more than likely a dream scenario, but let's say we settle around the 5-6 mark, and Pittsburgh/San Diego/LT-needy team is in the 12-15 range and wants a shot at Taylor Lewan (or even Jake Matthews if the picks beforehand are all QBs+Clowney), and offer a trade: a swap of firsts and thirds, as well as their second-round pick this year. We proceed as follows:

1st round: Johnny Manziel, QB - Texas A&M (alternatively, Khalil Mack or Van Noy if we aim for a QB later like Mettenberger/Morris/stick with Keenum)

2nd round: Cameron Irving, Tackle - FSU (or best-available Tackle)

2nd round: Anthony Johnson, Defensive Tackle, LSU (or best-available DT; I could see Freak dropping due to lack of production this year, but he'd make life easier for Watt and hell for opposing offensive lines together)

3rd round: Shane Skove, ILB - Stanford (or BA-ILB or BA-QB)

4th round: Best available safety

5th round: Best available cornerback

5th round (conditional pick for Barwin): Best available Guard/DE/TE

6th round: Best available TE/DE

7th round: Best available RB

If we run with Manziel, that gives us a franchise QB, a shiny new olineman to compete with Williams, Jones, and Q for the LG/RT positions in the offseason, and a defensive setup that looks like this:

Watt - Johnson - Mitchell - Mercilus

Reed - Cushing - Skov

Joseph - Swearinger - Manning - Jackson

Fill free to swap in Harris, Smith (who gets re-signed, I think), Crick, etc., all as rotational players.
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Old 11-19-2013   #118
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

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Not really,

They could move Cushing outside and draft a MLB. Or leave Cushing at MLB move Reed to the strong side and draft a WLB. I see Mercilus as a situational pass rushing DE. Mercilus/Mitchell/Watt/Clowney will be able to get to the QB regularly.
hmmm not sure if reed can play OLB. i would think he should be playing where he did in college as a DE with his hand in the dirt. He doesn't operate well enough in space.

My overall problem drafting clowney AND moving to the 4-3 is that we would have to many DE and not enough OLB
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Old 11-19-2013   #119
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

In regards to Brooks Reed, I think the bottom line is that he isn't a very good player. He's not effective enough at OLB. People want to move him inside or move him to a more traditional LB role, assuming we move to a 4-3, because it's convenient. The problem is that he hasn't shown the ability to be a good player in that role. You end up with defensive problems when you start moving guys around simply for convenience. Bottom line, like I said, is that he isn't very good and is another failed draft pick by this administration. I'd look at just replacing him period.
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Old 11-19-2013   #120
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Default Re: If we get a top 5 pick...

Reed gets a lot of crap because he isn't getting sacks, but the way the scheme is set up this year doesn't put him in a position to get sacks. Maybe switching back to 4-3 DE would work, but I plug him at 4-3 OLB with the assumption that it's more for convenience than the hopes that we have the perfect guy at every position in a defensive switch.
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