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Old 11-04-2013   #81
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Yes, and this puts a lot more pressure on coaches AND front offices. We saw what Jim Harbaugh did in SF and what Andy Reid has done for KC, and suddenly the message is that one well-timed, good-fit coaching change can turn chumps into contenders in one season. That's probably not realistic in the general case, but just the same I don't think the regime in place is ever going to get us there.

How many Texans games have there been when they dominated the first half and then also "finished" and dominated the second half? To be honest, I can't think of any. Almost all games where the Texans dominated in the first half, they came out flat and struggled to hang on and win.... or outright lost.
Yes, head coach is the 5 most important positions on the team. I know the announcers said Dennison was the most logical one to call the offensive plays in the 2nd half, but we can't trust them to know anything. What I want to know is who did call the plays, Dennison or Phillips?
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Old 11-04-2013   #82
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
What the hell are you talking about? Did you reply to the wrong post?
LOL, nah I'm just messin' with ya, man. You said:

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This. This is Chances chance to show us if he has what it takes to become our QB of the future.
I don't know who this Chance guy is, but I prefer Keenum for now.
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Old 11-04-2013   #83
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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A team, it should be noted, that Dungy was never able to take to the Super Bowl.

"A Football Life" last week was on Warren Sapp. He said Dungy had one great flaw: he never held the offense accountable.

It took another coach to come in, kept what worked (defense, obviously) and implement an offense that could score.

This happens in the NFL, though not always with the success of championships. But just look at KC this year or SF last year. New coaches took the existing talent and took them to another level.

That might be what the Texans need now. Kubiak has improved this franchise, but maybe he's peaked. Another coach could come in here and they would not be starting from scratch.
Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons. Last season could be argued was one of his worst failures considering that the entire team melted around week 12 and totally fell apart. I've never seen a team in my life go 11-1 and fall apart that fast in all phases of the team. It wasn't just Schaub. Now this season we're 2-5 with a QB playing great who Kubiak refused to play until he was forced to, and we could easily be 0-7. All Kubiak has done is tread water season by season and people seem to forget that Wade Phillips had to come in and save Kubiak's job. Here we are back to having a season like we had 3 years ago when we went 6-10, and people want to see what Kubiak can still do? It's mind boggling to me at this point. Fans in Houston want to see a SB so bad, that they'll lie to themselves year after year thinking Kubiak can bring them a Lombardi trophy but all he ever does is continually show that he he'll make the same mistakes with coaches and with his players that he won't hold accountable. First it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a good defense, but we couldn't ever get one because he refused to get rid of Smith and the other guy, then it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a #2 WR because he wouldn't get rid of Jacoby and Walter. Now it is imagine what Kubiak could do with a mobile QB who has an arm, and we end up getting all of these things when it is to late and we have some other huge hole somewhere else by the time it's fixed. But yet fans make themselves believe that Kubiak could do great things if he could just fix this one problem that isn't his doing even though it is him and Smith who refuse to fix it before it's a disaster. It's always some new gaping hole that Kubiak needs that fans clamor onto, but Kubiak can't fix until it's to late.

I don't know who is worse out of Mack Brown or Gary Kubiak. They are such similar coaches though. Nice guys who consistently under achieve with the resources they have and a forgiving fan base that just wants a "nice guy" to be in there calling the shots. Sometimes I wish I was a Philly fan after rooting for a Bob Mcnair owned team. At least the fans hold their franchise accountable and don't digest anything that their management of their team feeds them from year to year. They may be crazy and over the top, but at least they hold winning up as a top priority.

Houston football fans are fine as long as we have a football team here where they can tailgate and BBQ. Winning is just an extra if we can get it every now and then. Fans in Houston are still happy just to have a team, and that's one of the biggest problems with this franchise because Reliant sells out no matter how bad this team or regime is, and that is what sends messages at the end of the day. Fans aren't obsessed with winning nearly enough to do what is necessary to send a message to the owner, therefore the owner doesn't feel the pressure to to do anything drastic because his revenue keeps flowing either way. Mcnair isn't a passionate intense guy about the sport enough to fire people that he has great personal relationships with. We have both agreed many times about the idea of it being extremely traumatic for Mcnair to bring in new guys to adjust his entire franchise. The thought of it seems to stress him out tremendously and he doesn't want to face it.
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Old 11-04-2013   #84
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

I don't know why this stumbled upon me recently but I for some reason want to give Kubes one full year with Case Keenum next year and see where it takes us. This system seems just perfect for Keenum. It'd be a shame to let his abilities go to the wayside if the coach doesn't like him or changes to a scheme that doesn't work with his abilities.

I've been wanting Kubiak gone since 2009 so I don't even understand my own logic.
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Old 11-05-2013   #85
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
LOL, nah I'm just messin' with ya, man. You said:



I don't know who this Chance guy is, but I prefer Keenum for now.
Dope! How did I miss that.
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Old 11-05-2013   #86
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I don't know why this stumbled upon me recently but I for some reason want to give Kubes one full year with Case Keenum next year and see where it takes us. This system seems just perfect for Keenum. It'd be a shame to let his abilities go to the wayside if the coach doesn't like him or changes to a scheme that doesn't work with his abilities.

I've been wanting Kubiak gone since 2009 so I don't even understand my own logic.
I agree completely, firing Kubiak at this stage would be a half-baked decision. For all the hell we give him, Kubiak has done a great job of tailoring his system to Keenum's skill set, developing him as a player, and putting him in a position to win games. A full offseason worth of work with Keenum at the top of the depth chart could make a very dangerous offense out of this unit.

Ironically, 2010 was the last time Kubiak was on the hot seat...and in that year as well the offense was finding a rhythm and doing it's job whilst the defense and special teams **** the bed.
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Old 11-05-2013   #87
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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Sometimes I wish I was a Philly fan after rooting for a Bob Mcnair owned team.
Didn't folks cheered when Schaub went down? I say there's a legion of people ahead of you on that one Tex.
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Old 11-05-2013   #88
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by Seegara View Post
... What I want to know is who did call the plays, Dennison or Phillips?
Appears to me, Schaub called the plays.
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Old 11-05-2013   #89
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons. Last season could be argued was one of his worst failures considering that the entire team melted around week 12 and totally fell apart. I've never seen a team in my life go 11-1 and fall apart that fast in all phases of the team. It wasn't just Schaub. Now this season we're 2-5 with a QB playing great who Kubiak refused to play until he was forced to, and we could easily be 0-7. All Kubiak has done is tread water season by season and people seem to forget that Wade Phillips had to come in and save Kubiak's job. Here we are back to having a season like we had 3 years ago when we went 6-10, and people want to see what Kubiak can still do? It's mind boggling to me at this point. Fans in Houston want to see a SB so bad, that they'll lie to themselves year after year thinking Kubiak can bring them a Lombardi trophy but all he ever does is continually show that he he'll make the same mistakes with coaches and with his players that he won't hold accountable. First it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a good defense, but we couldn't ever get one because he refused to get rid of Smith and the other guy, then it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a #2 WR because he wouldn't get rid of Jacoby and Walter. Now it is imagine what Kubiak could do with a mobile QB who has an arm, and we end up getting all of these things when it is to late and we have some other huge hole somewhere else by the time it's fixed. But yet fans make themselves believe that Kubiak could do great things if he could just fix this one problem that isn't his doing even though it is him and Smith who refuse to fix it before it's a disaster. It's always some new gaping hole that Kubiak needs that fans clamor onto, but Kubiak can't fix until it's to late.

I don't know who is worse out of Mack Brown or Gary Kubiak. They are such similar coaches though. Nice guys who consistently under achieve with the resources they have and a forgiving fan base that just wants a "nice guy" to be in there calling the shots. Sometimes I wish I was a Philly fan after rooting for a Bob Mcnair owned team. At least the fans hold their franchise accountable and don't digest anything that their management of their team feeds them from year to year. They may be crazy and over the top, but at least they hold winning up as a top priority.

Houston football fans are fine as long as we have a football team here where they can tailgate and BBQ. Winning is just an extra if we can get it every now and then. Fans in Houston are still happy just to have a team, and that's one of the biggest problems with this franchise because Reliant sells out no matter how bad this team or regime is, and that is what sends messages at the end of the day. Fans aren't obsessed with winning nearly enough to do what is necessary to send a message to the owner, therefore the owner doesn't feel the pressure to to do anything drastic because his revenue keeps flowing either way. Mcnair isn't a passionate intense guy about the sport enough to fire people that he has great personal relationships with. We have both agreed many times about the idea of it being extremely traumatic for Mcnair to bring in new guys to adjust his entire franchise. The thought of it seems to stress him out tremendously and he doesn't want to face it.
Great take. And you really struck a nerve with the Mack Brown comparison. UT is my other team and the combination of Kubiak and Brown has made watching football a miserable experience over the last few years. Pretty much for the same reasons...zero accountability.

I want Kubiak and Brown gone so I can enjoy football again. With Brown his teams always play down to his opponents so you either get a disaster or an unsatisfying late victory against a much weaker team. With Kubes I can never enjoy a good stretch of first half play because I've seen too many collapses and I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Get well Kubiak but to me you are a soul sucking / faith destroying coach. Please retire with health and happiness and let us move on!
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Old 11-05-2013   #90
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

Putting the horrible medical stuff aside and me wishing Kubes a speedy recovery, I agree with Tex...egad ....and that Kubes needs to go for the franchise to take the next step. Conservative and slow to make decisions that can improve team. My issue is now you might have a QB that fits system well and can open it up. Does Kubes rein him in and still coach close to the vest in tight games, despite what you saw in the first half?

This is really off the wall but I know my medical emergencies and near deaths colored the world a little differently for me. If Kubes comes back, maybe he relaxes a little, loses the reins and stops playing so close to the vest and starts opening things up. Just a random thought for the day that can be swept under the rug but weirder things have happened.

As for McNair, he is going to need a mutiny to get rid of Kubiak.
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Old 11-05-2013   #91
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

You know, I have no idea if this would work or not, but if Kubes (may he recover quickly) is let go, I wouldn't mind seeing Art Briles in here, and have him bring in a young hotshot as DC. I really do like Kubes and Wade personally, but I think it might be time to clean house.

I'd really enjoy seeing what Briles (the only coach who saw enough in Case to offer him a scholarship) could do with Case going forward. In my mind, he's got credibility because he's basically resurrected two programs (UH and Baylor), and is an offensive genius.

I thought Gary showed a lot of foresight in signing Case, and obviously has done a great job with him the first two games. However, I think we need some new blood, and I think Briles would be a great starting point- better even than Sumlin, who would probably be a good choice as well.

Anyway, just my opinion.
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Old 11-05-2013   #92
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

Briles is most likely never coming to the NFL.
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Old 11-05-2013   #93
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons.
Well...if you want to be technical. That statement is a bunch of crap. He improved the team in 2006. That was his first season. He improved the team in 2007 even with injuries to Schaub and AJ. He maintained in 2008 despite an unprecedented hurricane Ike rescheduling & another Schaub injury. Bye week in 2008 was in week 2, first 3 games on the road (all lost) followed by the infamous "Rosencopter" game.

Any reasonable person understands that the first 3 seasons that Kubiak had really shouldn't count. He inherited a 2-14 team that really was a 2-14 team. They were crap. He had to COMPLETELY (other than AJ) turn over the roster. That is worse than an expansion team. It took a few years to replace most of the players yet in the meantime he managed to improve the team IMMEDIATELY.

Kubiak's time is done. There is plenty of ammunition against him. 2 rookie DCs, Marciano, sticking with Schaub, offenses that fail to get TDs, going with 2 young CBs in 2010, allowing the right side of the Oline to become hot garbage, undisciplined play, team failing to play a full 4 quarters, this entire season... Seriously - there is no need to post statements about the first 3 seasons that don't take into account the circumstances surrounding the end results.
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Old 11-05-2013   #94
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons. [shortened to save space] .
I do not disagree with you. I appreciate that Kubiak has changed this young franchise's fortunes and accomplished some positive things. While the two division banners at Reliant are not a Hall of Fame career, they are still significant with regards to the fact that they are the first accomplishments of this team.

But, now is the time to be pragmatic and look big picture. I think Kubiak has peaked as a Texans head coach. In some ways, the comparison to Dungy is applicable. He took over a really bad Bucs team (although nothing nearly as bad as the 2-14 Texans), and improved them to the point of making playoff runs.

But, like Kubiak, Dungy lacked whatever intangible was needed to get the over the hump to the Super Bowl.

Right now, McNair is making a case for Kubiak to basically be our own version of Marvin Lewis (although at least Kubiak has won a couple of playoff games where Marvin is 0-4).

However, as fans, we have to realize that our owner is unresponsive to fan pressure and will do what he wants to do regardless of the fan base.

You are right that folks enjoy Texans games as entertainment events. In that regard, the franchise is first class and widely considered one of the best tailgating and gameday experiences in the league.

While some of us want more than just a fun event, the fact of the matter is that we are completely and utterly powerless to influence any of it. The sooner we truly understand this, the sooner we can stop beating our heads against the wall hoping a brick shakes loose.

BTW, I'm not excusing anything, but rather explaining my perspective of acceptance of the way things are and will continue to be. Me being mad or whatever changes nothing, so why waste my energy on the emotional investment?
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Old 11-05-2013   #95
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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I do not disagree with you. I appreciate that Kubiak has changed this young franchise's fortunes and accomplished some positive things. While the two division banners at Reliant are not a Hall of Fame career, they are still significant with regards to the fact that they are the first accomplishments of this team.

But, now is the time to be pragmatic and look big picture. I think Kubiak has peaked as a Texans head coach. In some ways, the comparison to Dungy is applicable. He took over a really bad Bucs team (although nothing nearly as bad as the 2-14 Texans), and improved them to the point of making playoff runs.

But, like Kubiak, Dungy lacked whatever intangible was needed to get the over the hump to the Super Bowl.

Right now, McNair is making a case for Kubiak to basically be our own version of Marvin Lewis (although at least Kubiak has won a couple of playoff games where Marvin is 0-4).

However, as fans, we have to realize that our owner is unresponsive to fan pressure and will do what he wants to do regardless of the fan base.

You are right that folks enjoy Texans games as entertainment events. In that regard, the franchise is first class and widely considered one of the best tailgating and gameday experiences in the league.

While some of us want more than just a fun event, the fact of the matter is that we are completely and utterly powerless to influence any of it. The sooner we truly understand this, the sooner we can stop beating our heads against the wall hoping a brick shakes loose.

BTW, I'm not excusing anything, but rather explaining my perspective of acceptance of the way things are and will continue to be. Me being mad or whatever changes nothing, so why waste my energy on the emotional investment?
I dissagree with you that fans don't influence the owner. When there is enough public outcry they will listen. JMO.
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Old 11-05-2013   #96
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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I dissagree with you that fans don't influence the owner. When there is enough public outcry they will listen. JMO.
How's that Vince Young pick working out for us?

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Old 11-05-2013   #97
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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How's that Vince Young pick working out for us?

Or Refgie Bush
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Old 11-05-2013   #98
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How's that Vince Young pick working out for us?

Apples and oranges. No owner is going to give in to pressure to draft a player. However when the whole city is screaming for a change and the team is horribly under performing again and again you can't tell me that doesn't influence them at all
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Old 11-05-2013   #99
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But, like Kubiak, Dungy lacked whatever intangible was needed to get the over the hump to the Super Bowl.
Or he needed one more year. Dungy went to the 6-10 Colts and took them to the playoffs every year including a Super Bowl victory. Yes Manning had a large role in that (although some would say he choked away several playoff appearances as well).
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Old 11-05-2013   #100
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Default Re: This will be unpopular, but..

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Apples and oranges. No owner is going to give in to pressure to draft a player. However when the whole city is screaming for a change and the team is horribly under performing again and again you can't tell me that doesn't influence them at all
Please elaborate with an example of Bob McNair making a decision on football operations based on demands of fans.

Just one example. (Firing Capers after 2-14 is not it. That was a business decision.)

Do you pay attention to McNair's press releases and interviews at all? I do not mean this in an insulting or belittling way of any sort. But honestly, have you truly paid attention to Bob McNair the past 11 years?

I ask because McNair has never shown any inclination to make decisions on football operations due to fan outcry.
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