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This will be unpopular, but..

speedfreek

speedfreek

All Pro
Just heard that Kubiak was given stroke meds at the hospital..
Bad, bad news.

Having known multiple stroke survivors, he's going to have to
change his lifestyle if a stroke is truly what he suffered.

Because of this, and the fact that Dennison will now most likely
be setting the gameplan and calling the plays: I believe Schaub
should be named the starter for next week.

Why?

I simply have no faith that Dennison (or Wade for that matter)
could put together a winning offensive gameplan to make use
of Keenum's skillset.

In fact, I think we will see plays straight off the Denny's menu...
(something I saw a little of in the second half last night)

If that is the case, then Schaub probably gives us the best
chance to win against these weak teams with a non-elite
pass rush..

(and if Arian shows up and plays gangbusters we will know
he was taking a dive for Schaub with the injuries..)

Either that, or Dennison needs to work with Case to integrate
some of the stuff he did in college. (so Keenum can modify things
at the line)

He was fairly successful during his last bowl game running the
offense at the line of scrimmage after Sumlin left for A&M and
the special teams coach was named interim head coach..

Ok go ahead, flame me now..

TJ
 
Hope that's not true about Kubes, but either way you are jumping way ahead of yourself. No chance Keenum isn't the starter regardless of what is going on with Kubiak. You can't bench a guy who's playing like that and not expect a mutiny.
 
You know how certain sportswriters are forever ridiculed and their opinions are disregarded because of some silliness they wrote once? Like that guy who panned the JJ Watt pick and said the Texans would rue the day they didn't take the fat guy from Alabama. That guy has no credibility now.

You just said the team should start Matt Schaub again. That's on the record now.
 
I agree with the OP but only because I want us to lose the rest of our games and I think Schaub starting would be the ideal way to accomplish that.
 
Don't get me wrong, I -hate- Schaubs play. I've been the biggest
homer for Keenum on this forum..

I also understand the points about mutiny, etc.

But... if this team goes 2-14 with Kubiak
in the hospital, I think we see a new head coach here next year..

(and that means years of re-tooling, Keenum gone,
AJ suffering through more losing seasons, etc..)

What a mess we are in. (injuries, poor play, and all..)

I think burning the Schaub jersey has angered the Gods..
:smiliepalm:

TJ
 
eriadoc said:
You know how certain sportswriters are forever ridiculed and their opinions are disregarded because of some silliness they wrote once? Like that guy who panned the JJ Watt pick and said the Texans would rue the day they didn't take the fat guy from Alabama. That guy has no credibility now.

You just said the team should start Matt Schaub again. That's on the record now.
Click to expand...
Yeah. He asked to be flamed. That was too gentle imo.

No matter who the coach is, no matter who the OC is, no matter if EVERY other starter on offense is injured, no matter...well you get the picture...Keenum should start. The only reasons that Keenum shouldn't be starting are:
1) Keenum is injured
2) Keenum plays much worse than Schaub did

Let's hope that neither happens.
 
Don't want Schaub back. Ever. Even if they play a conservative game plan, Keenum can still release the ball quicker and throw it better. Even if it's just dumping off for five yards.
 
speedfreek said:
I understand your point, but if this team goes 2-14 with Kubiak
in the hospital, I think we see a new head coach here next year..

(and that means years of re-tooling)

What a mess we are in. (injuries, poor play, and all..)

I think burning the Schaub jersey has angered the Gods..
:smiliepalm:

TJ
Click to expand...

Ask Kansas City if it takes years and years with a new HC and staff to start winning.
 
speedfreek said:
Just heard that Kubiak was given stroke meds at the hospital..
Bad, bad news.

Having known multiple stroke survivors, he's going to have to
change his lifestyle if a stroke is truly what he suffered.

Because of this, and the fact that Dennison will now most likely
be setting the gameplan and calling the plays: I believe Schaub
should be named the starter for next week.

Why?

I simply have no faith that Dennison (or Wade for that matter)
could put together a winning offensive gameplan to make use
of Keenum's skillset.

In fact, I think we will see plays straight off the Denny's menu...
(something I saw a little of in the second half last night)

If that is the case, then Schaub probably gives us the best
chance to win against these weak teams with a non-elite
pass rush..

(and if Arian shows up and plays gangbusters we will know
he was taking a dive for Schaub with the injuries..)

Either that, or Dennison needs to work with Case to integrate
some of the stuff he did in college. (so Keenum can modify things
at the line)

He was fairly successful during his last bowl game running the
offense at the line of scrimmage after Sumlin left for A&M and
the special teams coach was named interim head coach..

Ok go ahead, flame me now..

TJ
Click to expand...
I'm not flaming you for being a realist. In fact I just tried to post a poll on the source of a new coach if Kubiak can't return (though I hope he's ok). My poll wouldn't be accepted and the thread is listed as moved but won't open. The choices in the poll were:
1. Someone on Texans staff
2. An assistant coach with another NFL team
3. Somebody from collegiate ranks
4. Somebody not currently coaching
 
Keenum made at least a dozen plays last night that Schaub can no longer make. It looks like Schaub was listening in on the playcalling last night but otherwise did nothing to support Keenum. #$%@ Schaub. It's ridiculous to say that barring injury he should see the field again in a Texans uniform. But then again nothing seems to change on this team without an injury occuring....
 
Seegara said:
I'm not flaming you for being a realist. In fact I just tried to post a poll on the source of a new coach if Kubiak can't return (though I hope he's ok). My poll wouldn't be accepted and the thread is listed as moved but won't open. The choices in the poll were:
1. Someone on Texans staff
2. An assistant coach with another NFL team
3. Somebody from collegiate ranks
4. Somebody not currently coaching
Click to expand...
If Kubiak is let go AND Keenum continues to look really good - Art Briles (Baylor) or Kevin Sumlin (Texas A&M) make too much sense to pass up. Both coached Keenum and could instantly have the coach/QB comfort level needed to win.
 
In a perfect world, I would have had Gary stay as a figurehead
coach (the players play for him) with Dana Holgorsen as OC, and
Wade Phillips as DC.

Crazy, yes, but at this point it would at least be interesting to watch.
(and I think it would work)

What probably happens is we get someone like Gruden, he fires Wade,
cuts Keenum, and 5 years later we're talking about having to draft
a better QB and determining if JJ Watt has lost a step and if AJ
will make it into the HOF on a first ballot.

Gloom and doom city for me..
TJ
 
AMartin56 said:
Keenum made at least a dozen plays last night that Schaub can no longer make. It looks like Schaub was listening in on the playcalling last night but otherwise did nothing to support Keenum. #$%@ Schaub.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Matt is such a sulking baby he keeps his helmet on the whole game ... hiding.

What a douche-bag ...
 
Seegara said:
I'm not flaming you for being a realist. In fact I just tried to post a poll on the source of a new coach if Kubiak can't return (though I hope he's ok). My poll wouldn't be accepted and the thread is listed as moved but won't open. The choices in the poll were:
1. Someone on Texans staff
2. An assistant coach with another NFL team
3. Somebody from collegiate ranks
4. Somebody not currently coaching
Click to expand...

Wade will be announced you as the interim coach for the rest of the season by mid week (You can't afford to screw around with Kubiak's health at this point). Which probably means that we get him as our coach next year (which is a marginal improvement at best).

But assuming there some miracle occurs I want a coach with head coaching experience in the pros or college. No more coordinators...at least not on this go round.
 
>Ask Kansas City if it takes years and years with a new HC and staff to start winning.

Someone like Andy Reed could work with our roster for sure, but I doubt
he's leaving any time soon.

You could say the same for Harbaugh at SF.

But I just don't see a guy like that out there and available right now. And
gambling on some of these pro-style coordinators and unproven
college head coaches puts the same expression on my face that
Bullock has before a kick attempt..

TJ
 
speedfreek said:
In a perfect world, I would have had Gary stay as a figurehead
coach (the players play for him) with Dana Holgorsen as OC, and
Wade Phillips as DC.

Crazy, yes, but at this point it would at least be interesting to watch.
(and I think it would work)

What probably happens is we get someone like Gruden, he fires Wade,
cuts Keenum, and 5 years later we're talking about having to draft
a better QB and determining if JJ Watt has lost a step and if AJ
will make it into the HOF on a first ballot.

Gloom and doom city for me..
TJ
Click to expand...

Yeah....KC is in year 5 of their rebuilding project so it's right to be cautious with a coach that has already had eight years to get it done. :smiliepalm:
 
speedfreek said:
In a perfect world, I would have had Gary stay as a figurehead
coach (the players play for him) with Dana Holgorsen as OC, and
Wade Phillips as DC.

Crazy, yes, but at this point it would at least be interesting to watch.
(and I think it would work)

What probably happens is we get someone like Gruden, he fires Wade,
cuts Keenum, and 5 years later we're talking about having to draft
a better QB and determining if JJ Watt has lost a step and if AJ
will make it into the HOF on a first ballot.

Gloom and doom city for me..
TJ
Click to expand...

Gruden likes Keenum if I remember correctly
 
People are wrong about KC. That was a very talented team that suffered through a ton of injuries and horrible QB play last year (Matt Cassell & Brady Quinn lol). They also had a bad Head Coach.

Todd Haley was a decent HC, but did not get along great with his players. He was fired in 2011 and replaced by interim HC Romeo Crennel. Crennel was made HC when the team went on a run after he got the job. In 2012, they went 2-14 because he had no idea how to run an offense led by Cassell/Brady and his defense had a lot of injuries.

People forget the Chiefs won the AFC West in 2010. They haven't been horrible for years. That team is loaded with talent. They had one really bad year because of a perfect swarm of ineptitude (sound familiar). They didn't rebuild overnight just by hiring Andy Reed. The defense got healthy and Reed went out and found a stable QB (Alex Smith). They play great defense, run the ball, and don't turn it over.
 
I've read some downright silly stuff here the last couple of days or so, but sadly, this is not the silliest. :smiliepalm:
 
WolverineFan said:
People are wrong about KC. That was a very talented team that suffered through a ton of injuries and horrible QB play last year (Matt Cassell & Brady Quinn lol). They also had a bad Head Coach.

Todd Haley was a decent HC, but did not get along great with his players. He was fired in 2011 and replaced by interim HC Romeo Crennel. Crennel was made HC when the team went on a run after he got the job. In 2012, they went 2-14 because he had no idea how to run an offense led by Cassell/Brady and his defense had a lot of injuries.

People forget the Chiefs won the AFC West in 2010. They haven't been horrible for years. That team is loaded with talent. They had one really bad year because of a perfect swarm of ineptitude (sound familiar). They didn't rebuild overnight just by hiring Andy Reed. The defense got healthy and Reed went out and found a stable QB (Alex Smith). They play great defense, run the ball, and don't turn it over.
Click to expand...

I think the point is this. It's weak to fear change when the status quo isn't getting it done.

Will we be 9-0 next year if Kubiak is fired/resigns due to health issues and we make the right hire? Maybe but probably not.

But we know what we have in Kubiak at this point and he isn't getting it done...to the extent that it's now affecting his health. It would be foolish to stay the course again after already doing it in 2010. Since then we've won a few play off games by retaining Kubiak but has it really gotten us anything other than slightly more entertaining but ultimately disappointing football and worse draft picks?

With all the truly bizarre ways we lose games the constant is Kubiak's regime. Change could be worse but it could also be BETTER.

I'm a bit worried about what might happen if we move to a system that requires beef on the line and what that might do to our roster but it's time to rip off the band aid. Otherwise you're hoping in one hand and $%#$ing in the other to see which hand fills up first.
 
I think one big mistake you're making is simply not understanding the design of this offense.

When Schaub's running this offense, it's less explosive NOT because Kubiak/Dennison is calling less explosive plays and not because the other players on the offense are doing something different... it's because Schaub doesn't want to take the risk on trying to make those throws and prefers to make "safer" reads. He also can't prolong the play and buy time for guys to improvise and get open.

All of those long plays to AJ that Keenum was able to hit last night have probably been available for Schaub at various points during the season. Going back to Schaub at this point doesn't make sense.

I personally think we should just consider this a re-loading season, let keenum do his thing, try to get into the playoffs as best we can but otherwise, just fight, scratch, and claw to get this thing back on track for next year with Keenum as the man (unless he falls to pieces in the last half of the season in which case, we'll be looking for a new QB next draft and be a couple more years out from contention.)
 
the ONLY reason to go back to schaub is if you believe that dennison and company will do long term damage to keenum. if the line play breaks down and the playcalling gets ugly, it may be detrimental to have keenum's first season spent getting crushed and running for his life. you see it happen with early picks who go to bad teams. they spend their formative NFL seasons with bad coaching and protection, going from great potential to bust in large part because of the situation.

i think the system is firmly enough in place that that wont happen. i do believe the offense will fall off quite a bit without kubiak, much like when wade phillips was out. i dont think it will be harmful to keenum though, it's better for keenum to remain the starter and get all the first team reps and game experience. keenum needs to start, and i think dennison can keep the offense going sufficiently until (if?) kubiak returns.
 
AMartin56 said:
I think the point is this. It's weak to fear change when the status quo isn't getting it done.

Will we be 9-0 next year if Kubiak is fired/resigns due to health issues and we make the right hire? Maybe but probably not.

But we know what we have in Kubiak at this point and he isn't getting it done...to the extent that it's now affecting his health. It would be foolish to stay the course again after already doing it in 2010. Since then we've won a few play off games by retaining Kubiak but has it really gotten us anything other than slightly more entertaining but ultimately disappointing football and worse draft picks?

With all the truly bizarre ways we lose games the constant is Kubiak's regime. Change could be worse but it could also be BETTER.

I'm a bit worried about what might happen if we move to a system that requires beef on the line and what that might do to our roster but it's time to rip off the band aid. Otherwise you're hoping in one hand and $%#$ing in the other to see which hand fills up first.
Click to expand...

I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.
 
My lack of faith lies in the fact that I simply don't believe
Dennison knows which plays to call in each situation with
Keenum in there..

I think Dennison is the Frank Bush of the offense.

Kubiak looked like he was coming out of his box over the
last two games. I think Wade and Dennison open the
box back up and hop in together (singing kumbaya)

I will just hope that there is some magic going on in
the staff room today, and we're going to see some
no-huddle air raid mixed in with zone blocking bootlegs..

TJ
 
TheIronDuke said:
I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.
Click to expand...

Fair enough but I'm also a bit worried about anyone off the Shanahan coaching tree at this point. It may be just as irrational a fear as those that say we should keep Kubiak rather than rebuild but I don't like Shanahan's body language on the side line either and I feel like anyone training under him could be the same sort of sad sack that Kubiak is. :(
 
TheIronDuke said:
I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.
Click to expand...

speedfreek said:
My lack of faith lies in the fact that I simply don't believe
Dennison knows which plays to call in each situation with
Keenum in there..

I think Dennison is the Frank Bush of the offense.

Kubiak looked like he was coming out of his box over the
last two games. I think Wade and Dennison open the
box back up and hop in together (singing kumbaya)

I will just hope that there is some magic going on in
the staff room today, and we're going to see some
no-huddle air raid mixed in with zone blocking bootlegs..

TJ
Click to expand...

Dennison is DEFINITELY the Frank Bush of the offense. He's a friend of Kubes and played LINEBACKER for crissakes. Name me anyone else with that background that is known as an offensive minded coach?

Having said that I'm still not convinced who calls the plays. One day you read that Kubes does...the next that it's Dennison with Kubiak having veto power (You normally hear this when some needs to defend Kubiak's poor game management). Last night the play calling in the second half looked a lot like it always does to me...an attempt to sit on a lead...so it may not matter who calls the plays. Kubes and Dennison are very likely operating from the same mindset.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.
Click to expand...

Serious questions - what has Kyle Shanahan done to make you think "here's a clear upgrade at head coach"? Also, do you really want a rookie hc/oc hybrid?
 
speedfreek said:
Just heard that Kubiak was given stroke meds at the hospital. Bad, bad news...
Click to expand...
It is indeed, prayers out for Gary and his family.

speedfreek said:
I simply have no faith that Dennison (or Wade for that matter) could put together a winning offensive gameplan to make use
of Keenum's skillset...
Click to expand...
I agree 100% that this team will suffer greatly without Kubiak's tailoring the playcalling to Case's strengths.

speedfreek said:
I believe Schaub should be named the starter for next week.

Ok go ahead, flame me now..TJ
Click to expand...

Ermmm, you lost me there. Consider yourself flamed...
atomic.gif
 
I wasn't there. I saw it on TV but I could still hear the stadium come unglued when Keenum let the dragon loose and hit AJ on those long TD's.

Bob McNair heard that and while I had visions of the Texans racking up 40 points on the Colts and then Keenum saying "I'M GOING TO DISNEYLAND!" I have no doubt that McNair had a similar fantasy that also involved Keenum jersey sales and dollar signs everywhere.

Case Keenum is starting. He's starting the rest of the year and he's starting next year too unless he totally ****s the bed at some point this year. Bob McNair literally made it a condition of employment that Gary Kubiak keep David Carr to get the job (or so Texans lore says) and David Carr to my knowledge maybe made the crowd go nuts like that one time (his first start in 2002).

Keenum is the QB. That's just reality guys. Barring injury Schaub will never start a game for the Texans again.
 
Exascor said:
Serious questions - what has Kyle Shanahan done to make you think "here's a clear upgrade at head coach"? Also, do you really want a rookie hc/oc hybrid?
Click to expand...

I'm just guessing but I feel like he actually had some play calling duties when he was here and the offensive production went way down after he left. Of course that's all conjecture and hear-say. To be honest, I'll take anyone as HC over Kubes. I want a HC with balls and I want Phillips gone too because our defense is starting to look a lot like the same crap we were running out there in 2010. Really would like a HC that hold people accountable and isn't afraid of making changes when stuff obviously isn't working, like Marciano's dumb ass.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I'm just guessing but I feel like he actually had some play calling duties when he was here and the offensive production went way down after he left. Of course that's all conjecture and hear-say. To be honest, I'll take anyone as HC over Kubes. I want a HC with balls and I want Phillips gone too because our defense is starting to look a lot like the same crap we were running out there in 2010. Really would like a HC that hold people accountable and isn't afraid of making changes when stuff obviously isn't working, like Marciano's dumb ass.
Click to expand...

If I recall, he left for Washington before the 2010 season began, and when Dennison was brought in Foster and the offense had probably their best year (2010) but the defense was so bad it did not make a different.

Kyle Shannahan will be a HC in the league though, his offenses have been pretty good in Houston and Washington.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I'm just guessing but I feel like he actually had some play calling duties when he was here and the offensive production went way down after he left. Of course that's all conjecture and hear-say. To be honest, I'll take anyone as HC over Kubes. I want a HC with balls and I want Phillips gone too because our defense is starting to look a lot like the same crap we were running out there in 2010. Really would like a HC that hold people accountable and isn't afraid of making changes when stuff obviously isn't working, like Marciano's dumb ass.
Click to expand...
I'm with you on replacing Kubiak (and not with Phillips) but not with you on taking "anyone". I really don't want anything to do with anyone that would fall back to this regime's style. Kyle Shanahan runs versions of Kubiak and Papa Shanahan's offense. Yuck. Give me something new and maybe even exciting.
 
Exascor said:
I'm with you on replacing Kubiak (and not with Phillips) but not with you on taking "anyone". I really don't want anything to do with anyone that would fall back to this regime's style. Kyle Shanahan runs versions of Kubiak and Papa Shanahan's offense. Yuck. Give me something new and maybe even exciting.
Click to expand...

Shanahan is young so I think he's more open to change. He's done some good things with RG3, I think he could bring excitement and at the same time use some of the assets we already have, like our ZBS o-line. I don't want to spend 3 drafts trying to replace all the guys we've already drafted for the o-line.
 
They're calling the same plays,case is executing them 1000x better. He's shooting his gun which is something schaub refused to do. Schaub shouldn't ever see the field in a texans uniform. If case gets hurt or dinged,id rather see tj than schaub. When your qb was as bad as schaub was,he brought the whole team down.
 
leebigeztx said:
They're calling the same plays,case is executing them 1000x better. He's shooting his gun which is something schaub refused to do. Schaub shouldn't ever see the field in a texans uniform. If case gets hurt or dinged,id rather see tj than schaub. When your qb was as bad as schaub was,he brought the whole team down.
Click to expand...

Case actually makes the throws, and lets he WR make a play, Noodle Arm wont do that and just dink and dunks it.
 
I'd rather end the season 2-14 with Keenum playing than start Schaub and win out from here ....
 
speedfreek said:
If that happens, then we definitely will need a new coach _and_
a first round QB
Click to expand...

Bottom line is this team isn't going to the playoffs this season ... May as well run Keenum out there and let him learn on the job. Playing Schaub is counterproductive to that end.
 
> ... May as well run Keenum out there and let him learn on the job.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Bob will make Keenum's roster spot
mandatory in his next coaching hire.

A la David Carr with Gary's hire.

The sad thing is that I think Gary was coming around with Case.

I just have a feeling that Gary is done with football now -- for health
reasons.


TJ
 
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