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Case Keenum vs Andrew Luck

thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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I tried this a few weeks back, didn't go over to well. But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me. Like Schaub, he needs every part of his team to be working extremely well to keep it close & give them a chance.

Today is not that day. We've got problems of our own, nuy keenum is shining like a mother.

Two games into it, what do you think? Case Keenum or Andrew Luck?
 
I have seen Luck play several games now and he isnt the most accurate qb out there. Hes athletic and can make plays but the ball sails on him quite a bit. I would still take luck because kernums sample size us still too small.
 
Well it looks like Luck needs that star WR all the time to be an elite QB, and Elite QBs usually make everyone else look good, still its only his 2nd start but hell yeah i'd take UH home grown underdog case over luck ;)
 
I don't think luck is in all that great a system.

I don't even know what the hell the colts do. They have a suspect running game. Their play action sucks. Their receivers aren't all that great.

I think if luck were here in another system he'd be better. I think the colts either need a better offensive system or luck has to take his game to another level. He has to become a better passer.

That didn't answer your question, but I really believe the situations players find themselves in can really hurt them or really help them.

I think if Schaub would have gotten traded to the dolphins instead of us, he might be out of the league already. Don't think he'd have made any pro bowls or really be thought of as anything close to special.

I think that there are few players that just shine regardless of situation.
 
In Case (Keenum) you missed this earlier.........

Carr Bombed said:
I am going to LMAO when a UDFA outplays the #1 ovrl pick at his position from his draft class on Sunday night football in front of the entire country. :)
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MEGA SWATT said:
Msr

case :doot:
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Vance87 said:
Let's just say if that happens I'd have to change my shorts.
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thunderkyss said:
Let's just say... you better have an extra pair handy.
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its-happening-ron-paul-gif.gif
 
thunderkyss said:
I tried this a few weeks back, didn't go over to well. But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me. Like Schaub, he needs every part of his team to be working extremely well to keep it close & give them a chance.

Today is not that day. We've got problems of our own, nuy keenum is shining like a mother.

Two games into it, what do you think? Case Keenum or Andrew Luck?
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As impressive as keenum is playing, I'm still going to need a larger sample size to give the edge to keenum.

Luck is still better with a higher ceiling in my opinion. Bring this debate up at the end of the season and my answer may change.

The guy has only played a game in a half.
 
Rey said:
I don't think luck is in all that great a system.

I don't even know what the hell the colts do. They have a suspect running game. Their play action sucks. Their receivers aren't all that great.

I think if luck were here in another system he'd be better. I think the colts either need a better offensive system or luck has to take his game to another level. He has to become a better passer.

That didn't answer your question, but I really believe the situations players find themselves in can really hurt them or really help them.

I think if Schaub would have gotten traded to the dolphins instead of us, he might be out of the league already. Don't think he'd have made any pro bowls or really be thought of as anything close to special.

I think that there are few players that just shine regardless of situation.
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The only disagreement I have with you is that Luck was/is supposed to be a player where system does not matter. if he needs a better system then he is overrated a little bit.

To the broader topic, a rookie dropping 11 wins and a playoff appearance is unimpressive or him leading a victory over the undefeated Broncos in his last game is no big deal. 9 game winning drives in a year and half.

ESPN's total QBR ranks him as 5th going into the weekend (traditional ranking 13th)


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The only disagreement I have with you is that Luck was/is supposed to be a player where system does not matter. if he needs a better system then he is overrated a little bit.

To the broader topic, a rookie dropping 11 wins and a playoff appearance is unimpressive or him leading a victory over the undefeated Broncos in his last game is no big deal. 9 game winning drives in a year and half.

ESPN's total QBR ranks him as 5th going into the weekend (traditional ranking 13th)


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr
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Right and that's my hesitancy with the emotional luck sucks keenum is great notion.

I think keenum is good. If he grows and gets better he could be really good. Great even.

But I think luck is damn good in a system that is pretty basic.
 
i know Case should of spiked the damn ball, he waisted like 10 seconds. Damn this was a heart breaking loss, I think this loss might show how valuble Kubiak is to this team, we could clearly see the difference in play calling after half time.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The only disagreement I have with you is that Luck was/is supposed to be a player where system does not matter. if he needs a better system then he is overrated a little bit.

To the broader topic, a rookie dropping 11 wins and a playoff appearance is unimpressive or him leading a victory over the undefeated Broncos in his last game is no big deal. 9 game winning drives in a year and half.

ESPN's total QBR ranks him as 5th going into the weekend (traditional ranking 13th)


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr
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oops make that 10 game winning 4th/overtime drives
 
cmon are you guys serious. massive homerism coming out now. luck is already a top 12 QB in the league and its his second year. his going to be the best QB in a few years time. the smarts he has is incredible at his age. oh he isn't 100% accurate again its his second year give the guy time.

your comparing him to a guy who has 2 starts in the NFL. c'mon really.

I love Keenum but lets not have this debate till the end of the season at minimum. this is a non issue at the moment.

10 come from behind wins so far in his career is another awesome stat
 
aussie_texan said:
cmon are you guys serious. massive homerism coming out now. luck is already a top 12 QB in the league and its his second year. his going to be the best QB in a few years time. the smarts he has is incredible at his age. oh he isn't 100% accurate again its his second year give the guy time.

your comparing him to a guy who has 2 starts in the NFL. c'mon really.

I love Keenum but lets not have this debate till the end of the season at minimum. this is a non issue at the moment.

10 come from behind wins so far in his career is another awesome stat
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yep, I wished we had a kicker like the colts do.
 
I've openly ridiculed TKyss for his stance on Luck before and nothing that happened tonight makes me want to back off at all. But that has nothing to do with Keenum. They are at different points in their career in different systems with different traits. I'd take Luck in a heartbeat, and I'm a UH homer. But since I can't have Luck, give me Keenum. Let the man keep slinging it while he figures things out and I'll watch him grow.

Oh, and in Case I wasn't clear, TKyss - your stance on Luck pretty well invalidates just about every football take you have, in my eyes. But I still think you're OK. :)
 
not a fair comparison with case only having 2 games. I saw the improvement today against the blitz and case's long ball looked great.
 
aussie_texan said:
cmon are you guys serious. massive homerism coming out now. luck is already a top 12 QB in the league and its his second year. his going to be the best QB in a few years time. the smarts he has is incredible at his age. oh he isn't 100% accurate again its his second year give the guy time.

your comparing him to a guy who has 2 starts in the NFL. c'mon really.

I love Keenum but lets not have this debate till the end of the season at minimum. this is a non issue at the moment.

10 come from behind wins so far in his career is another awesome stat
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What about them people who started comparing Luck with Manning even before before he played a single down in the NFL?
 
EllisUnit said:
i know Case should of spiked the damn ball, he waisted like 10 seconds. Damn this was a heart breaking loss, I think this loss might show how valuble Kubiak is to this team, we could clearly see the difference in play calling after half time.
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Has Dennison ever even called a game here since coming to replace Shanny's boy? I've always wondered what it is exactly that he does and never could figure it out. Either way we were kind of off in the second half but I thought we still moved the ball well. We were just very conservative at points during those drives and we didn't finish drives. Making it worse our worthless kicker left 9 points on the field tonight which was more than the margin of victory.

Basically Randy Bullock finally cost us a game. Get used to that happening if he stays. He's missed 8 FG's in 8 weeks. Unreal.
 
76Texan said:
What about them people who started comparing Luck with Manning even before before he played a single down in the NFL?
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same as i regard this thread. we can have a discussion on where we think case's potential can take him. but making a direct comparison between him and luck, to me, is ludicrous
 
aussie_texan said:
same as i regard this thread. we can have a discussion on where we think case's potential can take him. but making a direct comparison between him and luck, to me, is ludicrous
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You're right. It's unfair to compare the 2. Luck has Vinetari while Case has, well, Bullock.:pop:
 
Andrew Luck was the #1 overall pick and is a hell of a QB. Case Keenum outplayed him tonight and I'm loving everything he's shown his first two games.
 
aussie_texan said:
same as i regard this thread. we can have a discussion on where we think case's potential can take him. but making a direct comparison between him and luck, to me, is ludicrous
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I don't compare their achievements, but I don't see any problem with people wanting to compare/contrast their skill sets, intangibles, etc.

Keenum actually had more football experience than Luck.
 
76Texan said:
I don't compare their achievements, but I don't see any problem with people wanting to compare/contrast their skill sets, intangibles, etc.

Keenum actually had more football experience than Luck.
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at a college level you can compare i think its to hard to compare at an NFL level.

i have seen your posts from years back in the college football section and know that you have evaluated Keenum really well so i won't dispute your evaluations but for some, making comparisons based on 2 games on NFL by Keenum to Luck's year and a half is irrelevant.
 
I think Keenum has the potential to be a great QB. I would like to see him when teams have more game film on him.

Luck seems to have the ability to play well when he needs to. He reminds me of Flacco last season though. He looks terrible statistically but his teams end up winning. I think that our defense gave him a window that a better defense would not have. He took the opportunity and won.

I will pass judgement on Luck after another season or 2. I think he will likely struggle in the playoffs. Winning in the regular season isn't as important to me.
 
I just don't understand the Keenum love on this forum.

He looks great when chucking it downfield or making plays off schedule, but he struggles reading defenses, running the offense and making consistent plays within the system.

When the opponent takes away the deep routes, he looks very ordinary. You're not going to win a lot of games relying on low percentage deep passes and scrambling around for 5 seconds waiting for things to develop. He needs to work on functioning within the offense if he's going to have any chance of being the long term answer.

Can he do that? Of course. A lot of it is instincts and intelligence, but the rest is knowledge, dedication, practice and experience. He's definitely shown the flashes to make you want to see him grow, but a lot of guys have flashed only to burn out. I think you need 6-8 games to form a realistic opinion on how well he can play. Teams are going to adjust, take away his strengths and then we'll see if he can develop into a complete QB. He certainly didn't do anything tonight that makes Kubiak want to rush Schaub back out with his crippled foot and ankle, so it looks like we're going to get to see what Keenum is made of. Let's hope he's more Drew Brees and less Ryan Fitzpatrick.

As far as Luck goes, he was pretty poor in the first half, but there wasn't a lot to criticize in the second.
 
Goatcheese said:
I just don't understand the Keenum love on this forum.

He looks great when chucking it downfield or making plays off schedule, but he struggles reading defenses, running the offense and making consistent plays within the system.

When the opponent takes away the deep routes, he looks very ordinary. You're not going to win a lot of games relying on low percentage deep passes and scrambling around for 5 seconds waiting for things to develop. He needs to work on functioning within the offense if he's going to have any chance of being the long term answer.

Can he do that? Of course. A lot of it is instincts and intelligence, but the rest is knowledge, dedication, practice and experience. He's definitely shown the flashes to make you want to see him grow, but a lot of guys have flashed only to burn out. I think you need 6-8 games to form a realistic opinion on how well he can play. Teams are going to adjust, take away his strengths and then we'll see if he can develop into a complete QB. He certainly didn't do anything tonight that makes Kubiak want to rush Schaub back out with his crippled foot and ankle, so it looks like we're going to get to see what Keenum is made of. Let's hope he's more Drew Brees and less Ryan Fitzpatrick.

As far as Luck goes, he was pretty poor in the first half, but there wasn't a lot to criticize in the second.
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apparently the colts and chiefs forums and coaches think case has a great future. J McClain gave hime an A today. Go look on FB with the Keenum comments. the kid can play.

bullock making at least 1 out of 3 FG's makes the colts have to force things. yeah case can improve, but we've seen already an improvement when the colts went all out on some heavy blitz schemes.
 
thunderkyss said:
But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me.
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Man, this guy must have made a pass at your wife or something for you to have this much denial at his talents. Almost half of his wins are from 4th quarter comebacks. He's already damn near broke that record in his first two years in the NFL and the 2nd season is barely half over.

I thought Luck were borderline elite before this game. This game put him in that status. But I don't think he will put up elite fantasy numbers b/c of the system, o-line, and lack of supporting offensive cast. And yet this dude came here in our place, against battle red, against an inspired crowd and it was business as usual.

One thing I know for certain Luck has over Keenum is his ability to maneuver in the pocket with subtle movement to avoid pass rush. Keenum will take the long way out by running toward the sidelines. Luck will calmly sidestep that oncoming rush while remaining in the pocket like that rusher were never there. If Keenum has that savvy in the pocket I take him in a heartbeat.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Case is average. Luck a baller. Its that simple people. Luck has IT in the fourth qtr.
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Is this a joke? All Keenum did was march the offense down the field with 30 or whatever seconds left on the clock and no timeouts to give FAT RANDY a reasonable shot at a field goal.

Please tell me out of the two, which one is more "baller":

18/40
271 yds
3 TDs

or...

20/34
350 yds
3 TDs
 
legacy_gt said:
apparently the colts and chiefs forums and coaches think case has a great future. J McClain gave hime an A today. Go look on FB with the Keenum comments. the kid can play.

bullock making at least 1 out of 3 FG's makes the colts have to force things. yeah case can improve, but we've seen already an improvement when the colts went all out on some heavy blitz schemes.
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Fans love the highlight/lowlight reel and tend to blank on everything else. Coaches always talk up the opponent. It would be impolitic not too, and it makes them look better when they make the team they just played out to be good.

John McClain is arguably the most clueless sports analyst anywhere, ever. He was a VY homer too.
 
Goatcheese said:
Fans love the highlight/lowlight reel and tend to blank on everything else. Coaches always talk up the opponent. It would be impolitic not too, and it makes them look better when they make the team they just played out to be good.

John McClain is arguably the most clueless sports analyst anywhere, ever. He was a VY homer too.
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you're in the minority.
 
Vance87 said:
Is this a joke? All Keenum did was march the offense down the field with 30 or whatever seconds left on the clock and no timeouts to give FAT RANDY a reasonable shot at a field goal.

Please tell me out of the two, which one is more "baller":

18/40
271 yds
3 TDs

or...

20/34
350 yds
3 TDs
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Luck has the W. Nuff said good buddy. Luck 15 pts in fourth Case 0. Pts win not total yds . Nor time of possession. Schaub has stats that amounted to a bunch of nothing
 
NastyNate said:
:toropalm:

Really can not believe this thread.
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Unfortunately, I believe and even anticipate threads like this one. Luck is off to a Hall of Fame start to his career and Case has proven that he might be some Jeff Garcia/Tony Romo lovechild (which I am quite happy about BTW). One has lived up to being the top overall pick in the draft the other has played two quality NFL games with arguably better skill personnel around him.
 
midway said:
That comeback was entirely down to Bullock being a bad kicker.
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Agreed. Case Keenum could be the next Drew Brees but more athletic. I'm very happy with him. These last two losses, nailbiters I might add, would have been blow out losses with Schaub at quarterback. Our special teams continues to be the worst in NFL history. Kicking game sucks, return game sucks, gunners in the return coverage suck. Only Shane Lechler is playing well. Having a great punter doesn't do a team any good if the other areas of special teams are horrible.
 
Goatcheese said:
He looks great when chucking it downfield or making plays off schedule, but he struggles reading defenses, running the offense and making consistent plays within the system.
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a 2nd year player that has played 2 NFL games and has about 3 weeks of practice with the starters has trouble reading defenses and running the offense? no way!!!


edit: 2 game stats against 2 of the best teams in the NFL = 35/59,571 passing yards, 4tds, 0 ints, 36 rush yrds,6 sacks, 2 fumbles (1 lost)
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Luck has the W. Nuff said good buddy. Luck 15 pts in fourth Case 0. Pts win not total yds . Nor time of possession. Schaub has stats that amounted to a bunch of nothing
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There's a fine line between stupid and idiotic and you're straddling both sides.
 
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