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Old 10-23-2013   #21
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by wolf123 View Post
He would be a average player on the edge. In fact I bet he would look exactly like Brooks Reed. Reed is better suited in the inside and so is Cushing. Both are below average pass rushers and can't disengage from blocks well.

When wade first got here he said Cushings best attribute was his ability to set the edge. The same thing he always says about Brooks Reed.
Cushing is a load for TEs to handle, more so than Reed.
I believe (or in my opinion), Wade moved Cushing inside so he can create havoc.
If the opponent keep a RB back to block, the Cush would overwhelm him.
Unfortunately, if we want to avoid his being cut block, it's probably a good idea to move him back outside.

We can find a big body inside and move Mitchell to DE (while backing up the big body at NT). These guys can be found in the third round of the draft, or even later.
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Old 10-23-2013   #22
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

I think our OLB production has been sorely lacking, but with his two knee injuries you just don't know what he will be capable of when he comes back. I will say that over the last 6 games his game had declined a little bit (probably still recovering from injury and regaining confidence in his knee) and this is a truly devastating blow.

I think we wait right now, and see what we can do about making our OLB's currently be more consistent contributors.
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Old 10-23-2013   #23
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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Cushing is a load for TEs to handle, more so than Reed.
I believe (or in my opinion), Wade moved Cushing inside so he can create havoc.
If the opponent keep a RB back to block, the Cush would overwhelm him.
Unfortunately, if we want to avoid his being cut block, it's probably a good idea to move him back outside.

We can find a big body inside and move Mitchell to DE (while backing up the big body at NT). These guys can be found in the third round of the draft, or even later.
OLB's get cut as well. Actually more so because they rush the passer more often.
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Old 10-23-2013   #24
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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OLB's get cut as well. Actually more so because they rush the passer more often.
Yes, but not from full-ahead steam.
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Old 10-23-2013   #25
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

I don't think Cushing has the speed for OLB productivity. I'd like him to stay at ILB.
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Old 10-23-2013   #26
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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OLB's get cut as well. Actually more so because they rush the passer more often.
No they don't.

Both of cushing's injuries came on cut blocks. 34 ilb's are cut all the time. And they are constantly blocked...especially in this defense without a big NT to slow the OL down from getting to the second level.
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Old 10-23-2013   #27
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

I'll lay it out like this. If Cushing is going to stay inside, then we need another 3down ILB and Cushing may need to be the guy coming off on passing downs. Cushing was not as good as he had been moving around in space this year. He was not moving as well going from sideline to sideline. He was not as good in pass coverage. We just paid him a lot of money and I think it could be beneficial to both us and Cushing. He could still be an effective 3 down player and would likely take less of a beating on the edge.

As far as him not being effective out there, well I just disagree with that. I think he'd be far superior than anything we have out there now.
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Old 10-23-2013   #28
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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He would be a average player on the edge.
Not so in 2009 when he was a Pro-Bowler and the Defensive-Rookie-of-the-Year in the NFL when playing the elephant position @ SAM in the Texans' 4-3 under defense. Of course Cushing did perhaps have a "little help from his friend".
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Old 10-23-2013   #29
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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The DE's that are placed at 3-4 OLB are guys that can really athletic and can rush the passer, but are not big or strong enough to play with their hand down. Some guys, like Sam Montgomery, do not have the agility or athleticism to do so. That's why 3-4 teams stay away from them. Other guys, like Aldon Smith or Demarcus Ware, have that agility and can play on the edge and rush the passer while still being able to drop into coverage.

OLB's have to play on the edge, rush the passer, and set leverage. This means playing in space. 3-4 ILB's go downhill and fill gaps. Instincts and tackling ability are much more important than agility for an ILB.
Jmo, but you don't seem to have a good grasp on the different types of athleticism from an edge player and an ilb.

This is why Sam Montgomery was tried at olb until he couldn't get his weight down. It's why Mario was able to play OLB here and it's why brooks Reed is able to play outside.

Olb is more of a straight ahead athleticism with short space agility. At ilb you need more in space agility and the ability to cover distances.

It's also part of the reason demeco wasn't playing as much here towards then end.

Last edited by Rey; 10-23-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013   #30
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

He wasn't that great on the outside prior to the major knee reconstruction, doubt he will be much more than a plodding run stuffer after the latest round of injury. His days in the league are numbered. Never has been able to avoid injury after the steroids.
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Old 10-23-2013   #31
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

I'd love to draft C.J. Mosley out of Alabama with our first-round pick. Either way, we need more talent at inside linebacker if this 3-4 defense is going to continue to be successful. We do not have the personnel to run a proper 3-4 defense as I type this.

I almost feel like we should be playing a 4-3 defense right now given the lack of talent we currently have in our front seven. Until we add that beast nose tackle and several quality linebackers like we used to have in Wade Phillips' first season here, we're going to struggle at times defensively.
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Old 10-23-2013   #32
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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He wasn't that great on the outside prior to the major knee reconstruction.
Except that time he won rookie of the year.....twice.

He's never played olb in a 34 though. Different animal.
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Old 10-23-2013   #33
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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He wasn't that great on the outside prior to the major knee reconstruction, doubt he will be much more than a plodding run stuffer after the latest round of injury. His days in the league are numbered. Never has been able to avoid injury after the steroids.
Just two seasons ago I felt like we had the best linebackers in the league with Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, DeMeco Ryans and Connor Barwin. We no longer have any of those guys on the field. Long term wise, I am not banking on Brian Cushing making a full recovery and being an All Pro like he was in 2011. It's the same knee he suffered a second major injury on in about a one year time frame.

We have to start making plans come draft day, and bulking up at inside linebacker with one and maybe two new starters in mind. Just in case Brian Cushing isn't ready to play by Week 1 in 2014, or if he has yet another major knee injury next season, which at that point, you have to fear it could be career ending if he damages the same knee three seasons in a row.
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Old 10-23-2013   #34
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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Jmo, but you don't seem to have a good grasp on the different types of athleticism from an edge player and an ilb.

This is why Sam Montgomery was tried at olb until he couldn't get his weight down. It's why Mario was able to play OLB here and it's why brooks Reed is able to play outside.

Olb is more of a straight ahead athleticism with short space agility. At ilb you need more in space agility and the ability to cover distances.

It's also part of the reason demeco wasn't playing as much here towards then end.
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Suggesting that Cushing would be a better OLB than ILB at this point is something that I don't agree with. He has lost most of his movement skills, but is still great at reading plays and going downhill.

3-4 teams shied away from Montgomery because he played stiff and with poor balance. He also ran the shuttle and 3-cone drills like a 3-4 DE. He was purely a 4-3 WDE, but the Texans saw him fall to the end of the 3rd and took a flier on him. Which was stupid because, like many on this board have said, he had no fit on the defense.

Mario was able to play OLB because he's a freak. Remember Alec Ogletree (rookie from Georiga). He ran some pretty good times at the combine. Mario ran pretty much the same exact times while posting a higher vertical, bench press, and a faster 10 yd dash. All this while being 50 lbs heavier. He's still a better 3-4 DE though because of his power and long arms (ala Watt). As seen by his numbers in Buffalo.

And DeMeco wasn't playing much toward the end because he was our 2-down LB. Someone had to come off the field in Nickel and it wasn't going to be Cushing. DeMeco had lost most of his agility. Which is why you have a Mike like Cushing who runs the field and makes plays to pair with your 2-down thumper. He's doing just fine in Philadelphia paired with Mychal Kendricks. The reason DeMeco was traded was because his salary was not justified by his role on the field.

This is why I think we should draft a guy like Yawin Smallwood this year. He can run sideline to sideline, make plays across the field, and drop into coverage while Cushing is making plays at the line of scrimmage. It would basically be what happened with Cushing/Ryans.
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Old 10-23-2013   #35
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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Not so in 2009 when he was a Pro-Bowler and the Defensive-Rookie-of-the-Year in the NFL when playing the elephant position @ SAM in the Texans' 4-3 under defense. Of course Cushing did perhaps have a "little help from his friend".
What he was asked to do in the 4-3 was completely different then what he would be required to do in the 3-4.

He is not a pass rusher period. Him and reed both are inside players in 3-4.
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Old 10-23-2013   #36
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

Question: do you take Clowney if you end up picking top 5 and he's still available? He's the best LB I've seen in college in a while or is QB still the route you take? So many holes on the team U MUST hit on the first 3 picks to turn this around by next year.
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Old 10-23-2013   #37
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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Question: do you take Clowney if you end up picking top 5 and he's still available? He's the best LB I've seen in college in a while or is QB still the route you take? So many holes on the team U MUST hit on the first 3 picks to turn this around by next year.
Clowney is a DE. And honestly, I think I take Anthony Barr. Premiere pass rushing OLB's can change a defense.
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Old 10-23-2013   #38
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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Question: do you take Clowney if you end up picking top 5 and he's still available? He's the best LB I've seen in college in a while or is QB still the route you take? So many holes on the team U MUST hit on the first 3 picks to turn this around by next year.
Absolutely. This defense isn't nearly as impact full without an elite OLB rushing the passer. Reed shouldn't be at OLB, And whitney mercilous is best as the 2nd pass rusher.
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Old 10-23-2013   #39
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

Until / unless Cushing becomes less of a liability in coverage (which he is post-injury) - I'd keep him in the middle.

As Cloak and I discussed on Sunday, his lateral movement has noticeably deteriorated. He's no longer the sideline-to-sideline guy he used to be. Another knee injury isn't going to help that.
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Old 10-23-2013   #40
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Default Re: Cushing at OLB next year. What do you think?

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What he was asked to do in the 4-3 was completely different then what he would be required to do in the 3-4.

He is not a pass rusher period. Him and reed both are inside players in 3-4.
Completely disagree. Reed would be a below average full time MLB.
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