Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

View Poll Results: Who gets the start at QB after the buy?
Keenum 162 88.52%
Schaub 21 11.48%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2013   #481
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14,917
Rep Power: 131093 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance87 View Post
It's amazing how a right-handed QB's throwing can be affected by a right lower limb plant side problem.................just amazing............
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #482
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 40
Posts: 5,579
Rep Power: 31584 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
If NFL teams based their evaluation of his arm strength on an injured performance, then they're as stupid as anyone who believes he doesn't have NFL caliber arm strength. And that is the reason he wasn't drafted. People are stupid when it comes to groupthink situations. They just parrot what the other guy said. The Texans were at least smart enough to take a look at him once he healed up and decided he was worth taking a flier on.
Part of it is simply the human condition. I don't think it is possible for people, even for their own self-interest, to avoid developing bias. I see sentiment and attitudes develop out of a mob mentality in the NFL all the time.

One example that comes to mind is the prejudice related to size of running backs. I have heard, since the late 1980s, RBs get devalued coming out of college because they are too small. Even after the years of success of guys like Emmett Smith, I remember MJD falling into the 2nd round because of "size' questions. Really? Did anyone bother to look at him? How can pro scouts in the modern era believe that a RB who is 6'2" and 240 lbs will be more durable than a RB who is 5'6" and 215 lbs? Yet, that has been the attitude for many years and caused a lot of NFL teams to make big draft day mistakes.

Certain schemes fall in and out of favor all the time- for offense and defense, etc...

Usually, the great organizations and coaches are defined by their ability to break outside of the mob mentality and risk doing things a different way, or evaluating players differently.

Still, though, it is hard to sit on the outside and conclude scouts of all 32 teams were so wrong when they have so much more information than we do... Yet, those examples exist throughout the NFL. I hope Case is one.
__________________
obsessive, passionate coverage of our beloved Texans at : Texans Bull Blog
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #483
drs23 
Veteran
 
drs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: No more VIP Suite so back to the recliner
Section: No more VIP suite so back to the recliner
Age: 57
Posts: 4,021
Rep Power: 56992 drs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
If NFL teams based their evaluation of his arm strength on an injured performance, then they're as stupid as anyone who believes he doesn't have NFL caliber arm strength. And that is the reason he wasn't drafted. People are stupid when it comes to groupthink situations. They just parrot what the other guy said. The Texans were at least smart enough to take a look at him once he healed up and decided he was worth taking a flier on.
Naaaa, the coaches and management folks are too stupid and clueless for that. It was strictly a PR move, just like letting him start.
__________________

Many thanks to sig Guru FS!

Sent from my keyboard using short, fat fingers.
drs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #484
paycheck71
All Pro
 
paycheck71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Salt Lake City
Age: 43
Posts: 891
Rep Power: 25876 paycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respectedpaycheck71 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Part of it is simply the human condition. I don't think it is possible for people, even for their own self-interest, to avoid developing bias. I see sentiment and attitudes develop out of a mob mentality in the NFL all the time.

One example that comes to mind is the prejudice related to size of running backs. I have heard, since the late 1980s, RBs get devalued coming out of college because they are too small. Even after the years of success of guys like Emmett Smith, I remember MJD falling into the 2nd round because of "size' questions. Really? Did anyone bother to look at him? How can pro scouts in the modern era believe that a RB who is 6'2" and 240 lbs will be more durable than a RB who is 5'6" and 215 lbs? Yet, that has been the attitude for many years and caused a lot of NFL teams to make big draft day mistakes.

Certain schemes fall in and out of favor all the time- for offense and defense, etc...

Usually, the great organizations and coaches are defined by their ability to break outside of the mob mentality and risk doing things a different way, or evaluating players differently.

Still, though, it is hard to sit on the outside and conclude scouts of all 32 teams were so wrong when they have so much more information than we do... Yet, those examples exist throughout the NFL. I hope Case is one.
This is true, but I think there is another variable in play when it comes to players slipping. Let's say there is a team that values a player as having a 1st round talent. Let's say the consensus on the player is that he's a 3rd rounder due to whatever arbitrary characteristics are put onto the position he plays as being required (size, speed, arm, vertical, etc. etc. etc). If the team that values the player knows (within a reasonable margin of error) that no one will take this guy until the 3rd round, it makes no sense for them to take him in the 1st, but they might take him with a late 2nd pick.

And when that happens a lot of people like us a boards like this one will complain about how they reached and how they could have had this guy probably in the 4th round.
paycheck71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #485
legacy_gt
All Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 577
Rep Power: 6629 legacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respectedlegacy_gt is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

at the end of the day, the draft worked out for the Texans. we have case and he's up for another big test sunday. a lot of fans in Houston are hopeful about this team and its future regardless of the injuries because of case.

I've watched case since his freshman year and he just gets better with age. There's a reason why Kubiak is risking putting it all on a young QB when his million dollar starter can play and will be sitting on the bench.

you're going to see some slinging on sunday night. book it.
legacy_gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #486
Vance87
Hall of Fame
 
Vance87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Age: 26
Posts: 1,360
Rep Power: 44848 Vance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
at the end of the day, the draft worked out for the Texans. we have case and he's up for another big test sunday. a lot of fans in Houston are hopeful about this team and its future regardless of the injuries because of case.

I've watched case since his freshman year and he just gets better with age. There's a reason why Kubiak is risking putting it all on a young QB when his million dollar starter can play and will be sitting on the bench.

you're going to see some slinging on sunday night. book it.
I have no doubt we'll see Case sling it...I just hope he slings it to the guys in red...
__________________
Vance87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #487
leebigeztx
Hall of Fame
 
leebigeztx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: League City formerly of LaMarque
Age: 43
Posts: 1,519
Rep Power: 23128 leebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via MSN to leebigeztx
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!
__________________
Be a student of the game, not a fan.
leebigeztx is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 10-30-2013   #488
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,287
Rep Power: 153118 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post

There's a reason why Kubiak is risking putting it all on a young QB when his million dollar starter can play and will be sitting on the bench.
Uh yeah.... the starter sux
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #489
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,287
Rep Power: 153118 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes.
I'm sure Kubiak has made up his mind & Keenum is the starter barring injury. Then Schaub will get an opportunity to redeem himself. But Kubiak is pretty good at making ho-hum QBs look good. If Case can be average (Schaub) Kubiak will make him look elite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!
I'm hoping the team did lay down on/because of Schaub. If this team plays the way they should, Keenum will be fine, better than fine. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB in the first, but I want a guy with lots of promise.... Cutler or Freemanish. I'd even be willing to take a look at Ponder if he happens to hit the market.

Then We can use our 1st on the OL someone to take LG or RT.

Or even an ILB, a cheap understudy for Cushing.
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #490
drs23 
Veteran
 
drs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: No more VIP Suite so back to the recliner
Section: No more VIP suite so back to the recliner
Age: 57
Posts: 4,021
Rep Power: 56992 drs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Uh yeah.... the starter sux
And you don't even like him, never have.

:potstir:
__________________

Many thanks to sig Guru FS!

Sent from my keyboard using short, fat fingers.
drs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #491
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,287
Rep Power: 153118 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
And you don't even like him, never have.

To be clear, no I've never been a Matt Schaub fan, but I was fairly certain we could win a Super Bowl with Matt Schaub. While most of this fan base would prefer we tossed a perfectly good Matt Schaub (past tense) out for whatever, and cycle QBs through Houston until we find a franchise guy, it made more sense to me to put a team around him that can win a Championship.

No different than what Atlanta did, no different than what San Francisco did with Alex Smith, & what Baltimore did around Flacco. None of those QBs, in my mind, are any better than the Matt Schaub we saw coming in to 2013. His biggest problem was that he hadn't located his clutch gene.

Neither Baltimore or Atlanta is making plans to replace their QB. & Flacco isn't any younger than Schaub, than Schaub is younger than Brady or Manning. The only reason SF had a QB waiting in the wings is because they had a new coach coming in.

& there futures are tied to their $100M QBs.

Now... with whatever is going on in his head, he can't be trusted. We've got two viable options (again, in my mind) that can.

I still do not have a problem with the contract they signed. He's got a $7M salary this year, a $10M cap hit.... There's nothing wrong paying that for a starting QB of a good Matt Schaub's ability. Then we're not stuck with him beyond this season. It might hurt a little, but we've got more cap space without him than whit him going forward.

But yes, before this year I wouldn't have said that Matt Schaub sux. He just wasn't as good as we wanted him to be.
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013   #492
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
 
Carr Bombed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever the US govt. sends me
Posts: 13,472
Rep Power: 57907 Carr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm sure Kubiak has made up his mind & Keenum is the starter barring injury. Then Schaub will get an opportunity to redeem himself. But Kubiak is pretty good at making ho-hum QBs look good. If Case can be average (Schaub) Kubiak will make him look elite.




I'm hoping the team did lay down on/because of Schaub. If this team plays the way they should, Keenum will be fine, better than fine. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB in the first, but I want a guy with lots of promise.... Cutler or Freemanish. I'd even be willing to take a look at Ponder if he happens to hit the market.

Then We can use our 1st on the OL someone to take LG or RT.

Or even an ILB, a cheap understudy for Cushing.
(Freeman) Upchuck & (Ponder) Puke.

For the love of god, don't even waste your time on these guys. If Case doesn't look like a Starter going forward, draft a QB and sign a older vet to help teach him the ropes.

If Case looks like he's a starter go elsewhere in the first round.
Carr Bombed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #493
leebigeztx
Hall of Fame
 
leebigeztx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: League City formerly of LaMarque
Age: 43
Posts: 1,519
Rep Power: 23128 leebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via MSN to leebigeztx
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
(Freeman) Upchuck & (Ponder) Puke.

For the love of god, don't even waste your time on these guys. If Case doesn't look like a Starter going forward, draft a QB and sign a older vet to help teach him the ropes.

If Case looks like he's a starter go elsewhere in the first round.
I disagree and I don't have to look any further than the bills. After jp losman fell on his face,they drafted trent edwards in the 3rd rdin 07. He looked pretty good for a few games. They entered 08 with a chance at flacco and they passed while the ravens moved up to get him. Well we know the story and the rule is unless you're sure your qb is the sanswer,you can't pass a guy who can be a franchise qb. Unless case looks like drew brees,they can't afford to pass a talented qb who might be a franchhise qb. The qb is the most important position and you can't hide that guy no matter the talent around him. Not to mention the texans have andrew luck in their division. If you don't catch up with him,the texans will be forever relugated to 2nd or 3rd place. Once the afc south was formed in 02,peyton manning won it every year except 1 time. its gonna happen like that again if the qb isn't question isn't solved.
__________________
Be a student of the game, not a fan.
leebigeztx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #494
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
 
Carr Bombed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever the US govt. sends me
Posts: 13,472
Rep Power: 57907 Carr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!
Ryan Fitzpatrick is Ryan Fitzpatrick and Case Keenum is Case Keenum.. they are their own man and two completely different players and neither has one to do with the other, other than both were undrafted players

As far as how does a QB go undrafted.. How does a Tom Brady go in the 6th round (nearly undrafted), how does a Bart Starr go in the 17th round. How many QBs went undrafted in this league who could start, but never did due just to the simple fact that they never got a chance to prove it, because they went undrafted.. we'll never know, but I'm pretty damn positive there were players just like that.

Just look at Arian Foster, if Tate doesn't get hurt and if Houston actually has a legit option at the position ahead of him.. does he get his chance to shine? If Schaub doesn't hit a career wall and if T.J. doesn't play like a UDFA.. does Case ever get a chance to prove if he can play or not?

I'm pretty sure just for those simple reasons alone, there's been UDFA QBs who never had the stars align for them and they rotted on a bench somewhere waiting for a chance that never came or simply fell through the cracks as they were cut after their first camp (Hello Kurt Warner.. who was lucky to get a rare second chance, thanks to a NFLe league that now doesn't even exist and have Trent Green go down and the stars aligned later on for him) Hell even Tom Brady had to have things happen that were out of his control in order for him to get his shot.

The only thing a higher draft round selection gets you is a increased chance to prove what you can do in this league, but once you get it and you prove it, nobody really gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school. Just like if you finally prove you can't do it, again... nobody gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school.

The odds are stacked against Keenum, nobody is going to doubt that, but it doesn't mean he can't beat them.. because they've been beat before.

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 10-31-2013 at 12:45 AM.
Carr Bombed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #495
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
 
Carr Bombed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever the US govt. sends me
Posts: 13,472
Rep Power: 57907 Carr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I disagree and I don't have to look any further than the bills. After jp losman fell on his face,they drafted trent edwards in the 3rd rdin 07. He looked pretty good for a few games. They entered 08 with a chance at flacco and they passed while the ravens moved up to get him. Well we know the story and the rule is unless you're sure your qb is the sanswer,you can't pass a guy who can be a franchise qb. Unless case looks like drew brees,they can't afford to pass a talented qb who might be a franchhise qb. The qb is the most important position and you can't hide that guy no matter the talent around him. Not to mention the texans have andrew luck in their division. If you don't catch up with him,the texans will be forever relugated to 2nd or 3rd place. Once the afc south was formed in 02,peyton manning won it every year except 1 time. its gonna happen like that again if the qb isn't question isn't solved.
And what round was Losman taken in? The draft is a crap shoot. UDFAs can play like high draft picks and high draft picks can play like UDFAs..

And no, Case doesn't have to play like Drew Brees.. Andrew Luck isn't even on that level yet, hell Drew Brees wasn't even Drew Brees until his 4th year in the league.. He played so bad his team picked up and went with another QB.

All Case has to do is flash and play like a NFL starter with promise for real growth in the future this season and he'll get another shot next year too.. At the most Houston would do is spend a mid round pick to back up the position like Seattle did with Russel Wilson (another QB the scouts missed out on). If Case just plays like I described this team has a HELL OF A LOT more holes to fill.. Like most of the offensive line, remember the last time we stuck a high round QB under center without having a quality line? How did that work out? I'm actually hoping that Case can even overcome it this season, hopefully his year of watching will help him.
Carr Bombed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #496
Vance87
Hall of Fame
 
Vance87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Age: 26
Posts: 1,360
Rep Power: 44848 Vance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Ryan Fitzpatrick is Ryan Fitzpatrick and Case Keenum is Case Keenum.. they are their own man and two completely different players and neither has one to do with the other other than both were undrafted players

As far as how does a QB go undrafted.. How does a Tom Brady go in the 6th round (nearly undrafted), how does a Bart Starr go in the 17th round. How many QBs went undrafted in this league who could start, but never got a chance due just to the simple fact that they never got a chance to prove it, because they went undrafted.. we'll never know, but I'm pretty damn positive their were players just like that.

Just look at Arian Foster, if Tate doesn't get hurt and if Houston actually has a legit option at the position ahead of him.. does he get his chance to shine? If Schaub doesn't hit a career wall and if T.J. doesn't play like a UDFA.. does Case ever get a chance to prove if he can play or not?

I'm pretty sure just for those simple reasons alone, there's been UDFA QBs who never had the stars align for them and they rotted on a bench somewhere waiting for a chance that never came or simply fell through the cracks as they were cut after their first camp (Hello Kurt Warner.. who was lucky to get a rare second chance, thanks to a NFLe league that now doesn't even exist and have Trent Green go down and the stars aligned later on for him) Hell even Tom Brady had to have things happen that were out of his control in order for him to get his shot.

The only thing a higher draft round selection gets you is a increased chance to prove what you can do in this league, but once you get it and you prove it, nobody really gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school. Just like if you finally prove you can't do it, again... nobody gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school.

The odds are stacked against Keenum, nobody is going to doubt that, but it doesn't mean he can't beat them.. because they've been beat before.
__________________
Vance87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #497
leebigeztx
Hall of Fame
 
leebigeztx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: League City formerly of LaMarque
Age: 43
Posts: 1,519
Rep Power: 23128 leebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via MSN to leebigeztx
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
And what round was Losman taken in? The draft is a crap shoot. UDFAs can play like high draft picks and high draft picks can play like UDFAs..

And no, Case doesn't have to play like Drew Brees.. Andrew Luck isn't even on that level yet, hell Drew Brees wasn't even Drew Brees until his 4th year in the league.. He played so bad his team picked up and went with another QB.

All Case has to do is flash and play like a NFL starter with promise for real growth in the future this season and he'll get another shot next year too.. At the most Houston would do is spend a mid round pick to back up the position like Seattle did with Russel Wilson (another QB the scouts missed out on). If Case just plays like I described this team has a HELL OF A LOT more holes to fill.. Like most of the offensive line, remember the last time we stuck a high round QB under center without having a quality line? How did that work out? I'm actually hoping that Case can even overcome it this season, hopefully his year of watching will help him.
To me its better to have the cowboys situation with aikman/walsh or sd with brees/rivers than passing a franchise type talent and regret it like buffalo by passing flacco. If you take a qb with the 1st rd pick and keenum proves to be a starter then you can always trade keenum or the rookie and recoup the pick. The eagles got a 2nd for their backup feely and a 1st and a player for kolb. In a qb starved league,have depth or percieved qb talent is a bonus. The chiefs got a 2nd,the top of the rd 2nd for smith. The texans were offered a 3rd for rosencopter but didn't trade him because they weren't sure about schaubs health.
__________________
Be a student of the game, not a fan.
leebigeztx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #498
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 43,697
Rep Power: 224914 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to infantrycak
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I disagree and I don't have to look any further than the bills. After jp losman fell on his face,they drafted trent edwards in the 3rd rdin 07. He looked pretty good for a few games. They entered 08 with a chance at flacco and they passed while the ravens moved up to get him. Well we know the story and the rule is unless you're sure your qb is the sanswer,you can't pass a guy who can be a franchise qb.
One example does not make a rule especially where the example is not analogous. Flacco was replacing nobody, oops actually he was replacing a "franchise QB" taken one spot away from him.

Many drafts there are zero or 1 franchise QB. Others several franchise QBs are taken who flop before you get to the best QB. Going back far enough to have some judgement:

2009 - Stafford
2008 - Ryan and Flacco (1 and 2)
2007 - None
2006 - Cutler (3rd QB taken)
2005 - Rodgers (2nd)
2004 - Eli, Rivers and Big Ben (1-3) - exceptional draft - Romo (18+)
2003 - None
2002 - None
2001 - Brees (2nd)
2000 - Brady (7th)

Now how many of those guys were drafted to replace anyone of substance? The only arguable ones are Rodgers after an epic slide in anticipation of the retirement of Favre and Rivers to replace a Brees who at the time had done nothing, So really none.

Where are the teams who successfully upgraded their healthy, young, at least Matt Schaub level QB - 92 QB rating? The NFL does not appear to be built on your rule.

Quote:
Unless case looks like drew brees,they can't afford to pass a talented qb who might be a franchhise qb.
Bad invocation of Brees - he had a 67.5 QB rating when they drafted Rivers.

For the record, prior to the season I was in favor of drafting a replacement for Schaub (even assuming the Texans were doing well and Schaub was playing to his norm) no later than the 3rd round and preferably earlier because of Schaub's age.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #499
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,033
Rep Power: 57325 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!
Steve DeBerg, drafted in the 10th rd ( #275 overall.)
Threw for 34,241 yards in his career.

Bill kenney, drafted in the 13th (#333 overall)
Threw for 17,277 yards.
One-time Pro-Bowler

Trent green, drafted in the 8th
Threw for 28,475 yards
Two-time PB

Doug Flutie, 11th rd
Pro bowler

Brian Sipe, 13th rd
23,714 yards, PB

The UDFA club:
Jake Delhome, Jon Kitna, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner,
Bart Star, Jack Kemp, Warren Moon, Tom Flores,
Jim Hart, Bobby Hebert, Dave Krieg, Jim Zorn.

I'm sure I missed a name or two.
Add to that the list of late rounders who made good-great starters.

Add to that the list of guys who were heavy spot-starters, multiply by 22, and I believe it's you who needs to explain to us why so many teams missed on their picks.

Also, proclaiming that the Texans need to look for a QB in the first round is premature, I think.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013   #500
leebigeztx
Hall of Fame
 
leebigeztx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: League City formerly of LaMarque
Age: 43
Posts: 1,519
Rep Power: 23128 leebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respectedleebigeztx is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via MSN to leebigeztx
Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

76Texan - with the scouting the have now,they're not missing qb with talent nearly as much. All those guys you list were at least 10 yrs ago which is a lifetime in the nfl. The most recent guy was tony romo who played at what eastern michigan or somewhere like that? Go look at the last 10 yrs of superbowl qbs and see where they where drafted. That is the real obejective right? Now if you want a guy to get you through a season or so, fine. The way the nfl is setup today and going forward ,your qb will have to makeup for faults in your team because of the salary cap restrictions. Its not like it used to be when you could build your team all the way up and just get a guy to manage the game. The dilfer ravens and johnson bucs wnt happen again that I can see. Look at the holes the last 5 sb qb had to overcome ie ol,rb,wr injuries and such. Unless you have a stacked team and you can win with a guy on his rookie deal,the qb is gonna have holes on the team. We've seen big ben,rodgers,and eli win sbs with avg o-line and minimum run games. That's the wrld we're in now.

Really what it boils down to is talent evaluation. If the coaches view keenum as a franchise qb,they better be right or you will get fired quickly. Same can be said of the 1st or 2nd rd qb. My thing is as I mentioned before,id rather have 2 chances at being right than 1. Dallas had aikman and drafted walsh with a 1st rd supp pick. After the wash out,they got a 1st rd pick for walsh. In sd after trading down and drafting brees with the 1st pick in the 2nd rd even with his struggless,they still drafted rivers. The turned out to be on both qbs ad should've gotten something more than the 3rd. Rd compensatory pick for brees. Qb is a commodity in this league. If case flashes enough to say he's a starter,but the team continue to struggle and the coach gm evealuate a player there as a franchise qb in the 1st rd,you can't pass him or you shouldn't pass him. Now we do know gms and coaches can talk themselves into believing the guy on the roser is the guy or the guy a the draft position is the guy. As long as your right,its not a problem. Trading a qb on a rookie deal who is performing can yield a lot. I mean pats got a 1st rd pick for matt cassell who went undrafted and green bay got a 1st for hassellback from seattle who was a 6th rd pick if I remember.
__________________
Be a student of the game, not a fan.

Last edited by leebigeztx; 10-31-2013 at 06:43 AM.
leebigeztx is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger