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View Poll Results: Who gets the start at QB after the buy?
Keenum 162 88.52%
Schaub 21 11.48%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-29-2013   #421
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
This year would be more like 7. His bonus is 3.5 per year for 3 more years. That's 10.5 - 3.6 (50% 2013 salary) = 6.9.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...11&src=desktop
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Old 10-29-2013   #422
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Confirms my point. You still have to absorb the signing bonus. He had no salary guaranteed but the signing bonus was prorated and 10.5 is owed after this season.
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Old 10-29-2013   #423
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
None of the routes changed between case and matt. The formations changed because case is more mobile and the pistol was done to make case comfort level acceptable. However,the routes were exactly the same. Thtas why I informed people think players,not plays. Kubiak,despite how people want to view, wasnt at fault for schaub dropping his eyes to yhe ch3dkdown so often. Many times when a qb feels pressure thats jot there, young or old, tend to do this. There is a fine line between getting it out quick and letting the play develop. When you see qbs in this age of passing getting less than 7ypa, theyre not allowing routes to develop. What case was doing well is he was reading from andre to deandre to the te. Schaub was reading from andre straight to te or rb. This wouldnt be a problem if the te was graham,cameron,gronk,gates, or someone of that ilk,but daniels nor garrett are close in that class. I will say this alot, until you can get a qb who can threaten every blade of grass, then you gotta keep looking for one either via draft or free agency

I have struggled to understand how/why are play-action passing game has not produced deep passing opportunities as it always has since Kubiak has been here. When I went back and looked at the games, including games when we were running the ball well (1st half vs. StLouis, for instance)... The safeties just dropped deep unless it was a blitz and bit on nothing... What appeared open, looking at the coaching tape, were seems and deep-ins at about 20 yards. I think Schaub has lossed a little bit of zip on the ball since the foot injury, and he simply could not afford any diminishing of his arm, which combined with longer release was already marginal by NFL standards. Now, teams dare him to fit the ball downfield- below the safeties... and it he can't consistently do that.

I'm not sure, based on one game's eyeball test, whether Keenum's arm is stronger (I think it is at this point). I do know his release is quicker, which means the defense has less reaction time. Also, his added mobility create situations for big plays in the passing game as well. I think that is why we saw the passing game look different. He hit receivers at different points in their routes, etc... The Posey 40 yard play was an example of Keenum's quicker delivery, for instance.

I have no idea whether Keenum is the answer. Heck, I thought Schaub looked good this year, other than a few horrible plays. It wasn't until I saw Keenum playing that I recognized the extent of Schaub's limitations. But, I am excited to see what he does and how the offense looks with some athleticism back there. Even if he is not the long term answer, his presence and abilities will reveal a lot more about the offensive talent, playmaking ability of the receivers, and how the talent can excel (or not), in the Kubiak/Dennison version of the West Coast offense. I'm looking forward to the reappearance of the bootleg as a weapon instead as a moment of dread.
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Old 10-29-2013   #424
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
Confirms my point. You still have to absorb the signing bonus. He had no salary guaranteed but the signing bonus was prorated and 10.5 is owed after this season.
You are correct on this, but I think it's important to point out that cutting Schaub after the season, even with the $10.5MM dead money cap hit, would still save the Texans $4MM in cap space. They can also designate him a June 1 cut and create even more cap space next year, but that means they'd still carry some of his dead money in 2015.
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Old 10-29-2013   #425
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
The Texans will save a net of $4 million if they cut him before 2014 season. His cap number is scheduled to be roughly $14 million next year. If he's cut, the bonus gets prorated and the cap hit will be $10.5 million... then, the Texans will be clear of the contract. So, it is a very manageable situation. The only thing his contract prevents heading into 2014, would be the Texans bidding on an elite, free agent QB, which I would not expect anyway.
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Old 10-29-2013   #426
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You are correct on this, but I think it's important to point out that cutting Schaub after the season, even with the $10.5MM dead money cap hit, would still save the Texans $4MM in cap space. They can also designate him a June 1 cut and create even more cap space next year, but that means they'd still carry some of his dead money in 2015.
Yeah I'm hoping they absorb it all next year.
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Old 10-29-2013   #427
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
Confirms my point. You still have to absorb the signing bonus. He had no salary guaranteed but the signing bonus was prorated and 10.5 is owed after this season.
Maybe ur having trouble understanding contracts. They will owe him 0 because the rest of his money is salary. They already paid his bonus money and didn't stretch it. Thbey paid it upfront vs pro rating it. That tells me they had doubts about schaub all along. They cut him at the end of this season,they will have the same count against the cap than it is if they cut us.
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Old 10-29-2013   #428
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Maybe ur having trouble understanding contracts. They will owe him 0 because the rest of his money is salary. They already paid his bonus money and didn't stretch it. Thbey paid it upfront vs pro rating it. That tells me they had doubts about schaub all along. They cut him at the end of this season,they will have the same count against the cap than it is if they cut us.
They might owe him 0, if they already paid him all of his bonus $, but the cap hit on that bonus has been prorated, and they WILL take a cap hit.
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Old 10-29-2013   #429
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
Just to clarify - the Texans couldn't cut Schaub (or trade him) this year without absorbing his remaining signing bonus. There's not enough cap room to absorb that without restructuring 2-3 contacts.
While it serves no purpose whatsoever, the Texans could cut him with no impact to the 2013 cap. Any unamortized bonus related to cuts made after June 1 is applied to the following year's cap. Therefore, the $10.5 Million bonus hit would go against next years cap. What would be lost would be the opportunity to cut him and designate him as a June 1 cut after the season's over. Doing that would move 2/3's of the unamortized bonus ($7 Million) to the 2015 cap number.

The reason it serves no purpose is because Schaub's entire 2013 base salary is guaranteed, so there's literally no impact to the 2013 cap by cutting him. There would be the gain of a roster spot, but if that's all they're looking for, they can simply IR him.
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Old 10-29-2013   #430
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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Maybe ur having trouble understanding contracts. They will owe him 0 because the rest of his money is salary. They already paid his bonus money and didn't stretch it. Thbey paid it upfront vs pro rating it. That tells me they had doubts about schaub all along. They cut him at the end of this season,they will have the same count against the cap than it is if they cut us.




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They might owe him 0, if they already paid him all of his bonus $, but the cap hit on that bonus has been prorated, and they WILL take a cap hit.
It blows my mind if I think about it too much. Still, paycheck said the way I understand it. The cap hit for the prorated signing bonus is still owed even if the money has been paid.
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Old 10-29-2013   #431
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Maybe ur having trouble understanding contracts. They will owe him 0 because the rest of his money is salary. They already paid his bonus money and didn't stretch it. Thbey paid it upfront vs pro rating it. That tells me they had doubts about schaub all along. They cut him at the end of this season,they will have the same count against the cap than it is if they cut us.
If it's characterized as a bonus, which the $17.5 Million that he got upfront was, then it's amortized over the contract (up to a max of 5 years) regardless of the timing of the payment. Thru the 2013 season, $7 Million of Matt's bonus has been amortized, meaning that even though he got it in 2012, the remaining $10.5 Million will hit the cap in the 2014 league year or later.
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Old 10-29-2013   #432
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
While it serves no purpose whatsoever, the Texans could cut him with no impact to the 2013 cap. Any unamortized bonus related to cuts made after June 1 is applied to the following year's cap.
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think about the difference between cutting and trading. MSR.
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Old 10-29-2013   #433
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think about the difference between cutting and trading. MSR.
A trade would work the same way. The exact language from the CBA is as follows:

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(2) For any player removed from the Teamís roster or whose Contract is assigned via waivers or trade after June 1, except in the Final League Year, any unamor-tized signing bonus amounts for future years will be included fully in Team Salary at the start of the next League Year.
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Old 10-29-2013   #434
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A trade would work the same way. The exact language from the CBA is as follows:
Well crap...I know I read that they couldn't trade due to the cap hit. Meh - thanks again.
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Old 10-29-2013   #435
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Well crap...I know I read that they couldn't trade due to the cap hit. Meh - thanks again.
I think the reason they can't trade him is because nobody wants a 32 year old, gimpy (when not completely stationary), raggedy armed, pick-six throwing QB who's scheduled to make a $10 Million base salary next year. And while that base salary isn't guaranteed, the remaining amount on his 2013 base salary of approx. $3.8 Million would be.
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Old 10-29-2013   #436
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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If it's characterized as a bonus, which the $17.5 Million that he got upfront was, then it's amortized over the contract (up to a max of 5 years) regardless of the timing of the payment. Thru the 2013 season, $7 Million of Matt's bonus has been amortized, meaning that even though he got it in 2012, the remaining $10.5 Million will hit the cap in the 2014 league year or later.
Just because u give a signing bonus,doest mean you have to prorate it over 5 yrs or however long the contract is. Teams will use roster bonus,signing bonus,workout bonus that doesn't have to be ammoritized. They paid the money upfront without stretching it out. He had 17m in bonus money, that was paid already so if a situation like this can be resolved without a big hit.
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Old 10-29-2013   #437
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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I have struggled to understand how/why are play-action passing game has not produced deep passing opportunities as it always has since Kubiak has been here. When I went back and looked at the games, including games when we were running the ball well (1st half vs. StLouis, for instance)... The safeties just dropped deep unless it was a blitz and bit on nothing... What appeared open, looking at the coaching tape, were seems and deep-ins at about 20 yards. I think Schaub has lossed a little bit of zip on the ball since the foot injury, and he simply could not afford any diminishing of his arm, which combined with longer release was already marginal by NFL standards. Now, teams dare him to fit the ball downfield- below the safeties... and it he can't consistently do that.

I'm not sure, based on one game's eyeball test, whether Keenum's arm is stronger (I think it is at this point). I do know his release is quicker, which means the defense has less reaction time. Also, his added mobility create situations for big plays in the passing game as well. I think that is why we saw the passing game look different. He hit receivers at different points in their routes, etc... The Posey 40 yard play was an example of Keenum's quicker delivery, for instance.

I have no idea whether Keenum is the answer. Heck, I thought Schaub looked good this year, other than a few horrible plays. It wasn't until I saw Keenum playing that I recognized the extent of Schaub's limitations. But, I am excited to see what he does and how the offense looks with some athleticism back there. Even if he is not the long term answer, his presence and abilities will reveal a lot more about the offensive talent, playmaking ability of the receivers, and how the talent can excel (or not), in the Kubiak/Dennison version of the West Coast offense. I'm looking forward to the reappearance of the bootleg as a weapon instead as a moment of dread.
I never understood why schaub was a target of kubiak in the 1st place. I think he generally thought he fix carr who on just talent look great in the wco. The fact the job timer is ticking and carr wasn't the answer,they reached for a system guy vs a talent guy.Since they couldn't fix Carr,they got schaub because he could run the wco offense in terms of language. Nevermind that he's not mobile nor has a big arm,just he speaks the language. That to me is not enough from a talent point of view.

I think case fits the profile better than schaub,but its the same thing in terms of talent. Case is mobile and has a quick release,but the wr route conversion and the ability to push the ball down the field against coverage is where he lacks. The dna for that qb isn't really hard to diagnose. Elway,cutler,rogers,mcnabb,rg3,steve young,brett favre. Compare those guys arm talent and skillset to case keenum or schaub. There is no comparison. So what you do is you link up qbs you can draft that have these qualities from a skillset.

Just as an example from watching the tape all 22,the plays didn't change. The formations did,but the routes were the same. To case credit,he shot his gun which I applaud. He threw the pass to hopkins and he threw other passes schaub wouldn't have ever thrown. Compare that to kaeperncik vs alex smith and it was night and day in terms of routes. Why? Because CK has a bigger,stronger,more accurate arm and will shoot his gun also. All of a sudden,the flag,deep comeback and post routes came back in the playbook. Those are not only timing throws,but arm talent throws. Looking at the all 22, we didn't run any route different or at any different depth than they did with schaub. This is a problem,championship caliber team problem.
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Old 10-29-2013   #438
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Just because u give a signing bonus,doest mean you have to prorate it over 5 yrs or however long the contract is. Teams will use roster bonus,signing bonus,workout bonus that doesn't have to be ammoritized. They paid the money upfront without stretching it out. He had 17m in bonus money, that was paid already so if a situation like this can be resolved without a big hit.
How about you provide some support for your assertion it was paid as a roster bonus?

FYI - roster and workout bonuses are not a subset of signing bonus. They have different names for a reason.

Spotrac and rotoworld are both showing a %17.5 mil signing bonus and they know the difference between roster bonus and signing bonus.
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Old 10-29-2013   #439
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I never understood why schaub was a target of kubiak in the 1st place. I think he generally thought he fix carr who on just talent look great in the wco. The fact the job timer is ticking and carr wasn't the answer,they reached for a system guy vs a talent guy.Since they couldn't fix Carr,they got schaub because he could run the wco offense in terms of language. Nevermind that he's not mobile nor has a big arm,just he speaks the language. That to me is not enough from a talent point of view.

I think case fits the profile better than schaub,but its the same thing in terms of talent. Case is mobile and has a quick release,but the wr route conversion and the ability to push the ball down the field against coverage is where he lacks. The dna for that qb isn't really hard to diagnose. Elway,cutler,rogers,mcnabb,rg3,steve young,brett favre. Compare those guys arm talent and skillset to case keenum or schaub. There is no comparison. So what you do is you link up qbs you can draft that have these qualities from a skillset.

Just as an example from watching the tape all 22,the plays didn't change. The formations did,but the routes were the same. To case credit,he shot his gun which I applaud. He threw the pass to hopkins and he threw other passes schaub wouldn't have ever thrown. Compare that to kaeperncik vs alex smith and it was night and day in terms of routes. Why? Because CK has a bigger,stronger,more accurate arm and will shoot his gun also. All of a sudden,the flag,deep comeback and post routes came back in the playbook. Those are not only timing throws,but arm talent throws. Looking at the all 22, we didn't run any route different or at any different depth than they did with schaub. This is a problem,championship caliber team problem.
Like it or not, that's Kubiak's offense. He designs routes to make it very difficult to defend all the branches off of the route tree. It just takes a QB with the sack to either stand there to get it done or to move around and get it done. We watched Matt do it in the '10 season with the worst defense in the NFL.

I know it's way too early to crown #7 as the next great thing but I was certainly impressed with his showing in KC. That's a tough play ground and the "kid" did good. For the first time since we started the skid we're on I'm really looking forward to Sunday night's game. For the first time in a long time I'm not a'scaird of a prime time game. I sick-n-tired of watching the game day wrap ups and being the laughing stock of the NFL. I want to see Case Keenum step up and be the savior many have touted him to be. He's got my full support to take what's left of this team and take us forward.

Go Case. Go Texans!
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Old 10-29-2013   #440
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Just as an example from watching the tape all 22,the plays didn't change. The formations did,but the routes were the same. To case credit,he shot his gun which I applaud. He threw the pass to hopkins and he threw other passes schaub wouldn't have ever thrown. Compare that to kaeperncik vs alex smith and it was night and day in terms of routes. Why? Because CK has a bigger,stronger,more accurate arm and will shoot his gun also. All of a sudden,the flag,deep comeback and post routes came back in the playbook. Those are not only timing throws,but arm talent throws. Looking at the all 22, we didn't run any route different or at any different depth than they did with schaub. This is a problem,championship caliber team problem.
Wait. I'm not knocking you, but hasn't your point of contention regarding Keenum been that you claim he has a week arm because of what you saw in workouts? Or, are you talking about Keenum's bigger, stronger, more accurate arm relative to Schuab's flacid member?

Either way, that's an upgrade to Schaub, yeah?

Your last bit is confusing, though. Are you saying that Keenum CAN or CANNOT throw these post routes, flags, etc al?
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