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View Poll Results: Who gets the start at QB after the buy?
Keenum 162 88.52%
Schaub 21 11.48%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-22-2013   #221
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Are you seriously comparing Kubiak to Belichik? That's just wrong on several levels, regardless of years HC experience or anything else.
Kubiak-now vs Belichick-now, you're right. No contest.

Kubiak-now vs Belichick-then...... the argument can be made.

Bill Belichick was not without his faults his first 10 years as HC.
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Old 10-22-2013   #222
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
When Brown was beat to the inside, Keenum had to retreat backward.
He then put both hands on the ball and tried to get out of the pocket before be can decide whether he has a throw downfield, or keep running with it.

Newton let his man get around a hair too quickly.
Normally, it would have been OK if Keenum had the room to step up the pocket.

The defender had a running start, and caught Keenum from behind.

This is still a negative about Keenum.
If he was a bigger QB, he might be able to hold on to the ball better.However, with Schaub, the defender would have gotten there even sooner.
It would have been a sack just the same; just not sure about the fumble.
Or Schaub could have been hit real hard and cough up the ball. Who knows.
I disagree with the bolded. Keenum palmed the ball with two hands, but that sack would've resulted in a fumble 99% of the time. Keenum did what any QB would do (except Schaub or Carr...they would've assumed fetal many seconds earlier) and put both hands on the ball while looking downfield for an open receiver.

Those kinds of turnovers are much more acceptable than the kind Schaub has had this season. Yates isn't even worth discussing at this point.
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Old 10-22-2013   #223
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

With Schaub in there, I think we would have seen about 10 sacks, and an INT or two (maybe even a pick-six; I shudder just thinking about it.)

This one was on the CB blitz from the outside of the LT.
Keenum saw the green dog; with a defender retreat back looking for a pick so be ate the sack.

We have seen Schaub throw a few INTs in this instance; Yates, too.
Keenum avoided a couple of INTs in these similar scenarios (taking a sack both times.)
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Old 10-22-2013   #224
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Kubiak-now vs Belichick-now, you're right. No contest.

Kubiak-now vs Belichick-then...... the argument can be made.

Bill Belichick was not without his faults his first 10 years as HC.
Yeah, Belichik didn't turn into the Zen master until Brady.
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Old 10-22-2013   #225
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I disagree with the bolded. Keenum palmed the ball with two hands, but that sack would've resulted in a fumble 99% of the time. Keenum did what any QB would do (except Schaub or Carr...they would've assumed fetal many seconds earlier) and put both hands on the ball while looking downfield for an open receiver.

Those kinds of turnovers are much more acceptable than the kind Schaub has had this season. Yates isn't even worth discussing at this point.
Personally, I was OK with the second fumble, but I didn't want to make an excuse for Keenum.
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Old 10-22-2013   #226
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
how could you not turn to someone with more potential at this point in time?

matter of time b4 we turn on keenum? you've already done that....
You have to take a lot of this guy's comments with a grain of salt. I can't prove it yet, but I'm convinced he's related to Schaub or has a personal relationship with him.
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Old 10-22-2013   #227
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

I think Keenum earned the next start it's obvious there's a lot there you can work with. If Kubiak starts Schaub after the bye I think it's going to be a case of him thinking Schaub is still the best option to win and that the season is not lost. I think that is wrong right now but Keenum is still prone to greenhorn mistakes, so it's not completely unfounded that Kubiak might think this. If some media speculation is true, then I have read that Kubiak thinks a lot of Keenum so we shall see what will happen.

Keenum has earned the start with how he performed.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/qui...-7-quick-reads

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Originally Posted by Football Outsiders
Keenum had a lot of big plays against DVOA's favorite defensive team, but it does look like the Chiefs figured him out by the end of the game. In Houston's last four drives, as the Texans trailed by a single point, Keenum went 3-of-6 for 42 yards wth one first down, four sacks, and two fumbles.
Obviously it wasn't perfect but he's certainly earned the right.
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Old 10-22-2013   #228
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Yeah, Belichik didn't turn into the Zen master until Brady.
He looked pretty dang good with Bledsoe before his injury. Don't rewrite history. He wasn't always a great HC, but he always did his best for the team, regardless of position.
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Old 10-22-2013   #229
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
However, with Schaub, the defender would have gotten there even sooner.
It would have been a sack just the same; just not sure about the fumble.
Or Schaub could have been hit real hard and cough up the ball. Who knows.
Or Schaub would have delivered the ball on time & Newton's whiff would have been a non-issue, the way he used to do. Who knows is right.

Schaub's got his pick 6/INT issue that he was dealing with. Looked aiight against the Rams, but not enough to convince anyone that he's over it. & Keenum's proven that he's a viable alternative to the guy we saw take the field vs San Francisco & Baltimore.

So I'm glad everyone is happy with the new toy. But Keenum is not on par with that guy who played the first half of the Seahawks game, the second half/OT of the Titans game, or the end of the San Diego game. At least we haven't seen a Keenum yet who is on par with that guy. & while there was a dozen things in that game that Schaub would not have been able to do, it's disingenuous to suggest there wasn't a dozen less flashy (but just as effective) things that #8 could've/would've done.
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Old 10-22-2013   #230
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

His first coaching gig with the Browns ended up with a minus ten in the win-loss column, with Testaverde at QB for a few years.

His first year with Bledsoe, 2000, the pats went 5-11.
The lost their first two games in 2001; then came Brady.
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Old 10-23-2013   #231
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
You mean the unblocked pass rushers? Perfectly valid critique of the QB there.
Wow and I was told to actually watch the game. Perhaps you should take that same advice. The guy was blocked 12 yards up the field. How long is a guy supposed to maintain that block? That was one of the rare instances that Newton was actually blocking. Take those rose colored glasses off this time, I am sure you will see what I mean.

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Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
how could you not turn to someone with more potential at this point in time?

matter of time b4 we turn on keenum? you've already done that....
I have? Why because I pointed out the truth? I support whomever is the starting QB, and if that is Keenum he will have my full support.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
When Brown was beat to the inside, Keenum had to retreat backward.
He then put both hands on the ball and tried to get out of the pocket before be can decide whether he has a throw downfield, or keep running with it.

Newton let his man get around a hair too quickly.
Normally, it would have been OK if Keenum had the room to step up the pocket.

The defender had a running start, and caught Keenum from behind.

This is still a negative about Keenum.
If he was a bigger QB, he might be able to hold on to the ball better.

However, with Schaub, the defender would have gotten there even sooner.
It would have been a sack just the same; just not sure about the fumble.
Or Schaub could have been hit real hard and cough up the ball. Who knows.
Brown was not beat, he was pushed into the pocket, but he was not beat, and Newton blocked Hali 12 yards up the field. This sack/fumble was on Keenum no matter how much you want to deny it.

I have watched the play 20 times now. Keenum had enough time to throw, and room to run had he chosen to do that. He held the ball, he got sacked, he fumbled, which is why you don't want your QB running around extending plays because that is what can happen.

A sack would have been fine, at least the Texans could have gotten up and ran some more plays. Still had a chance to win with a sack, but the turnover ended the game.

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Yes you exaggerated.. somebody made a post on how Keenum showed he could make plays outside of the pocket..and he did in the game. Your agenda led you to pull up a bad play against the best front 7 in the league where we had literally no running backs left in the game to keep them honest.

As far as "reading all these comments about Newton all of a sudden". LMAO, this is just you showing your bias if you actually think people are "now just all of a sudden talking about Newton's bad play" or how people just now think it's a issue. That's a complete downright lie, it's been well documented on this board how people feel about Newton.. they were saying he sucks even when your boy played. They have been talking about his bad play since he was inserted into the lineup

As far as how you can't wait for people to "turn on Keenum too", that's really besides the point. The point is people are finally ready to turn the page on Schaub, because it's obvious he is not the answer.. regardless if Keenum will prove to be or not has yet to be seen, but at least we don't know yet, hence why he should get his Shot .. we already know Schaub isn't, hence why it's time to move aside.
No running backs to keep them honest? Dude there was 1:41 left in the game, the Texans had no time outs. Who the hell would be running the ball at that point to keep someone honest? NOBODY! Just more excuses. Keenum had plenty of time to be the hero and win the game, he failed and ended it on ONE PLAY even though all of you swore if we just had a mobile QB those things would not happen.

Wait I thought the Seahawaks have the best front 7? Hmmm. seems like to me you want to make excuses. It does not matter what front 7 you are facing. If your have that IT factor, then you win. Isn't that what was said? Doesn't Keenum have that IT, that "Aura"? Where was it on the one play we needed it most?

I never said "I can't wait", so stop trying to put words in my mouth. I said "it is a matter of time", so stop with the BS. Nothing wrong with being ready to turn the page on Schaub, but pumping sunshine as you guys used to say does not make the problem go away.

There was nothing in my original post that said it is not time to move on, nor anything saying Case should not get another shot. I simply called the play out for what it is. A game ending sack fumble on a guy who is supposed to be mobile, have a quick release, and great pocket awareness. None of those things were displayed on that final play. I am sorry if that hurts your feelings, but lets see the Internet tough guy you were when you were criticizing Schaub when giving analysis on Keenum.
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Old 10-23-2013   #232
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Or Schaub would have delivered the ball on time & Newton's whiff would have been a non-issue, the way he used to do. Who knows is right.

Schaub's got his pick 6/INT issue that he was dealing with. Looked aiight against the Rams, but not enough to convince anyone that he's over it. & Keenum's proven that he's a viable alternative to the guy we saw take the field vs San Francisco & Baltimore.

So I'm glad everyone is happy with the new toy. But Keenum is not on par with that guy who played the first half of the Seahawks game, the second half/OT of the Titans game, or the end of the San Diego game. At least we haven't seen a Keenum yet who is on par with that guy. & while there was a dozen things in that game that Schaub would not have been able to do, it's disingenuous to suggest there wasn't a dozen less flashy (but just as effective) things that #8 could've/would've done.
No way; if Schaub saw Brown get beat to the inside, he would have retreat and curl up. Can't get the pass off there; no time. Heck, even with Keenum's quick delivery, he didn't even have time to throw the ball. There's no way Schaub can get the ball off. There was nobody open early; and you don't call a play for your QB to take the snap and just throw the ball away immediately; there is no such play in football.
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Old 10-23-2013   #233
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Nitro, on that last play, Keenum was trying to step up the pocket at the one-sec mark; you would expect the protection call was for the LT not to allow penetration to the inside.
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Old 10-23-2013   #234
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Or Schaub would have delivered the ball on time & Newton's whiff would have been a non-issue, the way he used to do. Who knows is right.

Schaub's got his pick 6/INT issue that he was dealing with. Looked aiight against the Rams, but not enough to convince anyone that he's over it. & Keenum's proven that he's a viable alternative to the guy we saw take the field vs San Francisco & Baltimore.

So I'm glad everyone is happy with the new toy. But Keenum is not on par with that guy who played the first half of the Seahawks game, the second half/OT of the Titans game, or the end of the San Diego game. At least we haven't seen a Keenum yet who is on par with that guy. & while there was a dozen things in that game that Schaub would not have been able to do, it's disingenuous to suggest there wasn't a dozen less flashy (but just as effective) things that #8 could've/would've done.
My problem with Schaub is that going back to last season it is become blatantly clear that he is not the same guy and I'm becoming a true believer on what the good local Doc had to say about his foot injury. He went from being some one who was considered by even the national media as a "vastly underrated player", having debates whether or not if he's a top 10/ elite QB.. (and whether he was or not, he at least played like one and could put up the #s to boot). He's fallen to a player that is now regarded by those around the league as just a "game manager type". We've seen flashes of the old Schaub like you've mentioned above, but they've become fewer and farther between and you can no longer consistently expect that type of play out of "today's Schaub".

Honestly the only thing I think Keenum lacks that Schaub has is experience (one of the reasons why he was so bothered by the blitzes late in that game) and there's only one way for him to get experience. He has to play. Schaub's best days are behind him though and I don't expect him to return to form. I still like the guy and don't want us to IR him, I think his knowledge and experience can help Keenum and he could be a valuable asset to bounce questions off of.
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Old 10-23-2013   #235
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Nitro, on that last play, Keenum was trying to step up the pocket at the one-sec mark; you would expect the protection call was for the LT not to allow penetration to the inside.
And remember that I didn't blame Newton on this play, even though he can do a hair better.

Keenum was out of the pocket at the 3-sec mark; that's all you can ask from your QB, wouldn't you say?
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Old 10-23-2013   #236
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

This getting old. 2 ignore list adoptees from the new crop of football geniuses. I just can't take the stupidity anymore. The old time posters, I understand. These new fuktards are just intolerable.
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Old 10-23-2013   #237
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
And remember that I didn't blame Newton on this play, even though he can do a hair better.

Keenum was out of the pocket at the 3-sec mark; that's all you can ask from your QB, wouldn't you say?
Look at the routes that Hopkins, Jean, Graham, and Tate ran.
They require that the QB being able to step up the pocket.
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Old 10-23-2013   #238
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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May not remember correctly but seemed like our O lineman should have kept blocking the guy who tackled Keenum from behind. I think Keenum thought his back was protected & was looking down field to make a play.
In a perfect world lineman should pancake their man and then lay on top of him until the whistle blows, but there is no doubt Newton was outclassed by Tamba Hali, but on that play, Newton blocked his man sufficiently. The ball should have come out, or Keenum should have ran.

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you're right. keenum needs to go back and talk to schaub on mobility and throwing on the run...you know, show us how it's done matt.
actually no, that would be stupid since Schaub is not mobile, but perhaps Keenum could take a page from (Excluding the recent rash of turnover) Schaub's excellent record of protecting the football. As much as we hate to see Schaub fall down when a sack is imminent, it is a matter of protecting the football and not coughing it up like Keenum did. Sure you get extended plays when you have a guy running around back there on broken plays, but you also see more turnovers when you get outside the game plan. Ultimately it is exciting to watch, but it did not win the game, in fact it was the sole reason the game was lost.

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
You have to take a lot of this guy's comments with a grain of salt. I can't prove it yet, but I'm convinced he's related to Schaub or has a personal relationship with him.
Even though I know you are such a narcissist that you are incapable of conceiving of the idea that not everyone thinks like you, I have to say that going back to the tired "he is a relative of" or "In a relationship with" Schaub does nothing for your credibility. Kind of like saying Keenum was sacked and fumbled because we had no running backs to keep the D honest. WEAK SAUCE!

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Or Schaub would have delivered the ball on time & Newton's whiff would have been a non-issue, the way he used to do. Who knows is right.

Schaub's got his pick 6/INT issue that he was dealing with. Looked aiight against the Rams, but not enough to convince anyone that he's over it. & Keenum's proven that he's a viable alternative to the guy we saw take the field vs San Francisco & Baltimore.

So I'm glad everyone is happy with the new toy. But Keenum is not on par with that guy who played the first half of the Seahawks game, the second half/OT of the Titans game, or the end of the San Diego game. At least we haven't seen a Keenum yet who is on par with that guy. & while there was a dozen things in that game that Schaub would not have been able to do, it's disingenuous to suggest there wasn't a dozen less flashy (but just as effective) things that #8 could've/would've done.
Excellent post!

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
No way; if Schaub saw Brown get beat to the inside, he would have retreat and curl up. Can't get the pass off there; no time. Heck, even with Keenum's quick delivery, he didn't even have time to throw the ball. There's no way Schaub can get the ball off. There was nobody open early; and you don't call a play for your QB to take the snap and just throw the ball away immediately; there is no such play in football.
Really? You mean with with 1:41 to go and no timeouts you should just take your time and wait for players to get open? That at some point the defender is going to find his mark while you mosey around in the pocket? Keenum had plenty of time to throw, and or run. He hesitated, he got sacked, he fumbled, Chiefs recovered, GAME OVER!

Of course you throw the ball away, stop the clock and prevent a turnover from happening. Have more chances to get in FG range. There is a such a play in the NFL. It's called "common knowledge on three, ready? BREAK!"
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Old 10-23-2013   #239
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
This getting old. 2 ignore list adoptees from the new crop of football geniuses. I just can't take the stupidity anymore. The old time posters, I understand. These new fuktards are just intolerable.
Yep, I've added one to my ignore list as well
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Old 10-23-2013   #240
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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