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Old 11-08-2013   #201
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
The debate is about watching the Texans and wanting them to win or lose. I want them to win.
If you were a REAL Texans fan you'd want them to lose to grab that top pick and obtain a high-caliber game changer.

- Uncle Rico and Blaine Gabbert
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Old 11-08-2013   #202
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Nice hands, bad speed. Reason he was drafted late 1st.

He ain't no AJ Green, Dez Bryant or Megatron. Those guys are game changers, hell even Dre at his age is more of a game changer than nuuk cmon now.

Top 5 pick vs middle to late 1st round, what's the debate?
You play to win the game. Period.

Where you pick doesn't mean that much. Top 5 pick has just as much, if not more, bust potential than a mid to late 1st rounder.

Where was Aaron Rodgers picked? Where was Jamarcus Russell picked? How about Aaron Curry or Mark Sanchez? Gaines Adams?

How about JJ Watt and Brian Cushing?

So. No. Leave me out of the club of people wanting to tank for tanking's sake.
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Old 11-08-2013   #203
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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Originally Posted by Vance87 View Post
If you were a REAL Texans fan you'd want them to lose to grab that top pick and obtain a high-caliber game changer.

- Uncle Rico and Blaine Gabbert
You teach players to give u there 100 percent all the time during practice and games. You can not go and ask them to lose because they are not good enough to win. People say the colts "suck for luck" thats BS they tried to win every game they could, they didnt throw games to get luck. Come on people its not in people human nature to try to lose, and they wont.
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Old 11-08-2013   #204
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Lol cherry pick early round busts to suit your argument all you want, odds are better of obtaining premier talent with a higher pick. Having incompetent managers and scouts who can't find that talent is another issue altogether.

Should I just run down the last 5 drafts and throw up names to fit my opinion too?

Woo hoo let's go get to 8-8 and get that studly OG we desperately need!

I'm the Texanstalk whipping boy, and I approved this post. Lol

(I'm sure you REAL fans will think of more clever names to call me, I'm giddy with
anticipation)
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Old 11-08-2013   #205
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
You teach players to give u there 100 percent all the time during practice and games. You can not go and ask them to lose because they are not good enough to win. People say the colts "suck for luck" thats BS they tried to win every game they could, they didnt throw games to get luck. Come on people its not in people human nature to try to lose, and they wont.
I do agree that the players won't tank. I even doubt that coaches will tank. That is their jobs on the line. That's ridiculous and statements like that likely comes from people that have never played anything competitive.

This is where I disagree with you and a lot of other posters that I really respect. The organization can decide to try again next year by blowing this year. I truly believe that it happened with the Colts. I think once they were forced to go with Painter after Collins went down they were ready to lose out for draft position. Picking up the 0-16 Lions leader Dan Orlovsky sure doesn't seem like a move to improve the teams chances of winning does it?

10-6 team less Manning = 2-14? Both wins were after the #1 pick was secured?
2-14 team plus Luck & a few others = 11-5? Seem suspicious.

There's no proof either way. I could be completely wrong. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-08-2013   #206
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Lol cherry pick early round busts to suit your argument all you want, odds are better of obtaining premier talent with a higher pick. Having incompetent managers and scouts who can't find that talent is another issue altogether.

Should I just run down the last 5 drafts and throw up names to fit my opinion too?

Woo hoo let's go get to 8-8 and get that studly OG we desperately need!

I'm the Texanstalk whipping boy, and I approved this post. Lol

(I'm sure you REAL fans will think of more clever names to call me, I'm giddy with
anticipation)
OK. Let's NOT Cherry Pick. Let's look at the top 5 picks from 2002-2010. How about that? And let's look at Pro Bowls for want of a better gauge.

1. David Carr - 0 PB (Bust)
2. Julius Peppers - 8 PB (Future HOF)
3. Joey Harrington - 0 PB (Bust)
4. Mike Williams - 0 PB (Epic bust)
5. Quentin Jammer - 0 PB
1. Carson Palmer - 2 PB, not worth a #1
2. Charles Rogers - 0 PB (Epic Bust)
3. Andre Johnson - 6 PB (Possible HOF)
4. Dewayne Robertson - 0 PB
5. Terence Newman - 2 PB
1. Eli Manning - 3 PB
2. Robert Gallery - 0 PB, Bust
3. Larry Fitzgerald - 7 PB
4. Philip Rivers - 4 PB
5. Sean Taylor - 2 PB Sad story
1. Alex Smith - 0 PB, Looked like a bust for years
2. Ronnie Brown - 1 PB, Good player
3. Braylon Edwards - 1 PB, Iffy
4. Cedric Benson - 0 PB, Bustish, a couple of decent years
5. Cadillac Williams - 0PB, a few decent years
1. Mario Williams - 2 PB, iffy
2. Reggie Bush - 0 PB, Looked like a bust for years
3. Vince Young - 2 PB, Bust
4. D'Brickasaw Ferguson - 3 PB, Good player
5. A.J. Hawk - 0 PB but good player
1. Jamarcus Russell - 0 PB, Epic Bust
2. Calvin Johnson - 3 PB, Possible Future HOF
3. Joe Thomas - 6 PB, Great pick
4. Gaines Adams - 0 PB, epic bust
5. Levi Brown - 0 PB, not a great pick
1. Jake Long - 4 PB, good pick
2. Chris Long - 0 PB, meh
3. Matt Ryan - 2 PB, iffy
4. Darren McFadden - 0 PB, bustish
5. Glenn Dorsey - 0 PB but OK
1. Matthew Stafford - 0 PB, iffy
2. Jason Smith - 0 PB, bust
3. Tyson Jackson - 0 PB, bustish
4. Aaron Curry - 0 PB, Epic Bust
5. Mark Sanchez - 0 PB, Bust
1. Sam Bradford - 0 PB, Bustish
2. Ndamukong Suh - 2 PB
3. Gerald McCoy - 1 PB
4. Trent Williams - 1 PB
5. Eric Berry - 2 PB

There are some good picks in there, especially at WR with Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson. But there are more misses than hits with guys you're trying to portray as sure-fire.

Is the Best Running Back in the league in there? No. The Best Defensive Linemen or Linebackers? No. The Best QBs? Peyton was a #1 pick and most good QBs are first rounders, but the top 5 is a crap shoot.

Which is my one of my points.

Many of the best players are taken later in the first round or even later. Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Roethlisberger, etc., etc.

If you want a team that has a winning mind-set (which I do), then I want them to go out and win every game even when the season's gone wrong. I don't want them to give up. I want a team full of high-motor guys like JJ Watt and Brian Cushing and I want them to fight from beginning to end.

I'm not going to get those players and I'm not going to get that sort of effort if I start asking them to fail.
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Old 11-08-2013   #207
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

This is BoB's team as Champs 2012 posted he doesn't owe us/we the fans anything.

Yes, we are out of it now.
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Old 11-08-2013   #208
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Must get into the top 5, and try to secure an additional 1st in order to turn it around by next year. An 8-8 finish places you in the 13-16 range at which point true game changers are off the board. Moral victories are cute, but senseless at this point.
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Lol cherry pick early round busts to suit your argument all you want, odds are better of obtaining premier talent with a higher pick.
You made the statement in bold so own up to it and please don't try to weasel out with some distinction on "true game changers." No need to cherry pick busts, you are just wrong. There are impact/team changing players every year at 13+.

2002 - Jeremy Shockey, Albert Haynesworth, Ed Reed
2003 - Troy Polomalu, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson, Nnamdi Asomugha
2004 - Tommy Harris, Vince Wilfork, Stephen Jackson, Shawn Andrews
2005 - Jammal Brown, Derrick Johnson, Aaron Rodgers, Roddy White, Logan Mankins
2006 - Antonio Cromartie, Tamba Hali, DeAngelo Williams, Nick Mangold
2007 - Darelle Revis, Leon Hall, Aaron Ross, Jon Beason, Joe Staley
2008 - Jonathan Stewart, Chris Johnson, Duane Brown, Joe Flacco
2009 - Brian Orakpo, Brian Cushing, Percy Harvin, Clay Mathews, Hakeem Nicks
2010 - Jason Pierre-Paul, Mike Iupati, Maurkice Pouncy, Dez Bryant

That isn't counting guys outside the 1st round like Drew Brees, DeMeco, Clinton Portis, Anquan Boldin, Rob Gronkowski, Lesean McCoy, Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Maurice Jones-Drew, etc.

Point is EVERY year there are impact players to go along with lots and lots of really good starters.
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Old 11-08-2013   #209
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
OK. Let's NOT Cherry Pick. Let's look at the top 5 picks from 2002-2010. How about that? And let's look at Pro Bowls for want of a better gauge.

1. David Carr - 0 PB (Bust)
2. Julius Peppers - 8 PB (Future HOF)
3. Joey Harrington - 0 PB (Bust)
4. Mike Williams - 0 PB (Epic bust)
5. Quentin Jammer - 0 PB
1. Carson Palmer - 2 PB, not worth a #1
2. Charles Rogers - 0 PB (Epic Bust)
3. Andre Johnson - 6 PB (Possible HOF)
4. Dewayne Robertson - 0 PB
5. Terence Newman - 2 PB
1. Eli Manning - 3 PB
2. Robert Gallery - 0 PB, Bust
3. Larry Fitzgerald - 7 PB
4. Philip Rivers - 4 PB
5. Sean Taylor - 2 PB Sad story
1. Alex Smith - 0 PB, Looked like a bust for years
2. Ronnie Brown - 1 PB, Good player
3. Braylon Edwards - 1 PB, Iffy
4. Cedric Benson - 0 PB, Bustish, a couple of decent years
5. Cadillac Williams - 0PB, a few decent years
1. Mario Williams - 2 PB, iffy
2. Reggie Bush - 0 PB, Looked like a bust for years
3. Vince Young - 2 PB, Bust
4. D'Brickasaw Ferguson - 3 PB, Good player
5. A.J. Hawk - 0 PB but good player
1. Jamarcus Russell - 0 PB, Epic Bust
2. Calvin Johnson - 3 PB, Possible Future HOF
3. Joe Thomas - 6 PB, Great pick
4. Gaines Adams - 0 PB, epic bust
5. Levi Brown - 0 PB, not a great pick
1. Jake Long - 4 PB, good pick
2. Chris Long - 0 PB, meh
3. Matt Ryan - 2 PB, iffy
4. Darren McFadden - 0 PB, bustish
5. Glenn Dorsey - 0 PB but OK
1. Matthew Stafford - 0 PB, iffy
2. Jason Smith - 0 PB, bust
3. Tyson Jackson - 0 PB, bustish
4. Aaron Curry - 0 PB, Epic Bust
5. Mark Sanchez - 0 PB, Bust
1. Sam Bradford - 0 PB, Bustish
2. Ndamukong Suh - 2 PB
3. Gerald McCoy - 1 PB
4. Trent Williams - 1 PB
5. Eric Berry - 2 PB

There are some good picks in there, especially at WR with Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson. But there are more misses than hits with guys you're trying to portray as sure-fire.

Is the Best Running Back in the league in there? No. The Best Defensive Linemen or Linebackers? No. The Best QBs? Peyton was a #1 pick and most good QBs are first rounders, but the top 5 is a crap shoot.

Which is my one of my points.

Many of the best players are taken later in the first round or even later. Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Roethlisberger, etc., etc.

If you want a team that has a winning mind-set (which I do), then I want them to go out and win every game even when the season's gone wrong. I don't want them to give up. I want a team full of high-motor guys like JJ Watt and Brian Cushing and I want them to fight from beginning to end.

I'm not going to get those players and I'm not going to get that sort of effort if I start asking them to fail.
I hate losing because it breeds a losing attitude. With that said, the Texans need a culture shock, Why do Marciano/Bullock still have jobs? This is an indication that either poor job performance is an acceptable way of doing businees for the on the field product. Or Bob's team is all about making $$$$ and he could care less about the on the field product.

Aggies will fill the stands and are very happy drinking/BBQ'ing and havin a good ole time. Winning is and always will be secondary to BoB and his crew. (Jamey Rootes and the rest of the marketers)
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Old 11-09-2013   #210
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I hate losing because it breeds a losing attitude. With that said, the Texans need a culture shock, Why do Marciano/Bullock still have jobs? This is an indication that either poor job performance is an acceptable way of doing businees for the on the field product. Or Bob's team is all about making $$$$ and he could care less about the on the field product.

Aggies will fill the stands and are very happy drinking/BBQ'ing and havin a good ole time. Winning is and always will be secondary to BoB and his crew. (Jamey Rootes and the rest of the marketers)
While I agree that Marciano and Bullock should be gone, I don't believe that McNair doesn't want a winning team. And I don't know what world you're living in but in my world, ALL owners are about making $$$$ and McNair's no different than any of the other owners. I don't think McNair is cheap with this team, I don't think he's a problem, and I don't mind the fact that he's patient. I much prefer an owner like McNair than an owner like Jerry Jones.

And I don't get this whole Aggie thing at all. That's just such a load of BS that I can't even get my mind around it. I can't believe that anyone would say that seriously.
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Old 11-09-2013   #211
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
While I agree that Marciano and Bullock should be gone, I don't believe that McNair doesn't want a winning team. And I don't know what world you're living in but in my world, ALL owners are about making $$$$ and McNair's no different than any of the other owners. I don't think McNair is cheap with this team, I don't think he's a problem, and I don't mind the fact that he's patient. I much prefer an owner like McNair than an owner like Jerry Jones.

And I don't get this whole Aggie thing at all. That's just such a load of BS that I can't even get my mind around it. I can't believe that anyone would say that seriously.
We all like to pull out Jerry Jones and say we don't want an owner like that. Of course not. But Bob is a polar opposite of Jerry Jones. He is aggravatingly too patient. He causes damage by being extremely slow to move. The world is much faster paced nowadays. Bob puts his stock in US Steel and leaves it for his entire lifetime. He needs to move it around in the ever changing market. See the trends and understand what and when to buy and what and when to sell.
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Old 11-09-2013   #212
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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We all like to pull out Jerry Jones and say we don't want an owner like that. Of course not. But Bob is a polar opposite of Jerry Jones. He is aggravatingly too patient. He causes damage by being extremely slow to move. The world is much faster paced nowadays. Bob puts his stock in US Steel and leaves it for his entire lifetime. He needs to move it around in the ever changing market. See the trends and understand what and when to buy and what and when to sell.
What has that gotten him? - one less playoff win during the same period.
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Old 11-09-2013   #213
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

If Gary comes back don't expect any major changes. Even with a shiny, new QB and a possible top 5 pick, it will be the same status quo which was always losing to the well coached teams. Be smart and retire with your health and money, Gary. For everyone's sake.

Marciono will probably be back if Gary is as well..
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Old 11-09-2013   #214
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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If Gary comes back don't expect any major changes. Even with a shiny, new QB and a possible top 5 pick, it will be the same status quo which was always losing to the well coached teams. Be smart and retire with your health and money, Gary. For everyone's sake.

Marciono will probably be back if Gary is as well..
i think a shiny new QB can make all the difference, we all saw how we took KC down to the wire, and how we were crushing the colts until Kubiak has his mini stroke. Sure we are 0-2 since Keenum took over but the play calling has changed, the overall mindset of the team has changed. After seeing how this team is coached with Keenum at QB i am more than confident in Kubiak, i wasnt before when Schaub was QB. But i am now with how i see how he calls games with Keenum running the Offense.
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Old 11-09-2013   #215
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey View Post
We all like to pull out Jerry Jones and say we don't want an owner like that. Of course not. But Bob is a polar opposite of Jerry Jones. He is aggravatingly too patient. He causes damage by being extremely slow to move. The world is much faster paced nowadays. Bob puts his stock in US Steel and leaves it for his entire lifetime. He needs to move it around in the ever changing market. See the trends and understand what and when to buy and what and when to sell.
I like patient. I don't move my stocks around.

Moving things around in an ever-changing market is just busywork that makes you feel like you're doing something and accomplishing things when you're just standing still. It's like watching a football game and arching your body when you watch the kicker kicking a field goal even though you have no control over it.

Jerry Jones is a bad owner because he doesn't care about winning and losing. He's just playing Billionaire Madden. He loves football and he wants to be a part of it.

Daniel Snyder hasn't been successful because he's the type of owner who's active. Who makes a lot of moves. Who tries to read the trends and move his stocks around.

I prefer patience. I prefer building something over time rather than tearing it down and starting from scratch every 2-4 years.
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Old 11-09-2013   #216
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

I can't believe I have to read about this tanking **** on THIS board too. Already deal with it with moron basketball and hockey fans. And the meaning of "tanking" is not understood. "Tanking" is losing games on purpose. If you are an advocate of such actions, you are a loser. Just GTFO.

Look, you can find a contributor anywhere. And look, there are 32 ****ing teams in this league. Not everyone can be in the playoffs and not everyone can be in bottom 5. We are very clearly not the worst team in the league or close to it. It's a down year with lots of bad luck. That doesn't mean we're perpetually worthless like some other teams that are perpetually worthless. You cannot breed a winning culture by losing. Look at the Browns and Bills. They're perpetual LOSERS.

I am SO SICK of this damn argument INFECTING every single sport. I don't know where it came from and why it started getting more popular in recent years but it's as infuriating as people who use the word "hater" "hating on", etc. All I know is that it needs to die a painful death.
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Old 11-09-2013   #217
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
What has that gotten him? - one less playoff win during the same period.
I'm saying there is a happy place somewhere between the 2 extremes. Being extremely patient can set a team back just like constant change. We won't know until this current regime is done but imho every year Kubiak remains as head coach of the Texans is a setback. He should have been gone at the end of the 2010 season. I don't see any hope of ever seeing the Texans in a superbowl as long as he is here. Now I know plenty of fans do think he is the right coach but only time will tell. And he has had plenty of it so there will be no excuse.
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Old 11-09-2013   #218
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

You mean you didn't have any hope we could have seen the Texans in a Super Bowl last year or the year before, even though we were playing in the Divisional Round, two games away from being in the Super Bowl? Especially in 2011 where we were one muffed punt/arguably the dumbest thing I've ever seen a player do in the playoffs away from making it to the AFC Championship Game?

I get saying Kubiak's had enough time and all that, but to say things like "I don't see any hope of ever seeing the Texans in a Super Bowl as long as he is here" especially given the insane obstacles we were facing in 2011/12 is asinine at best.
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Old 11-09-2013   #219
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I like patient. I don't move my stocks around.

Moving things around in an ever-changing market is just busywork that makes you feel like you're doing something and accomplishing things when you're just standing still. It's like watching a football game and arching your body when you watch the kicker kicking a field goal even though you have no control over it.

Jerry Jones is a bad owner because he doesn't care about winning and losing. He's just playing Billionaire Madden. He loves football and he wants to be a part of it.

Daniel Snyder hasn't been successful because he's the type of owner who's active. Who makes a lot of moves. Who tries to read the trends and move his stocks around.

I prefer patience. I prefer building something over time rather than tearing it down and starting from scratch every 2-4 years.
8 yrs in NFL time is beyond patient.

How many yrs would you suggest BoB give Rick/Gary 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 50 yrs ?

It's obvious that Rick/Gary aren't SB winning quality.
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Old 11-09-2013   #220
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Default Re: We arent out of it yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
You mean you didn't have any hope we could have seen the Texans in a Super Bowl last year or the year before, even though we were playing in the Divisional Round, two games away from being in the Super Bowl? Especially in 2011 where we were one muffed punt/arguably the dumbest thing I've ever seen a player do in the playoffs away from making it to the AFC Championship Game?

I get saying Kubiak's had enough time and all that, but to say things like "I don't see any hope of ever seeing the Texans in a Super Bowl as long as he is here" especially given the insane obstacles we were facing in 2011/12 is asinine at best.
\

Asinine is keeping Bullock/Coach Joe

Since Rick/Gary are making decisions like this, I can see why the fanbase is losing hope, after 8 yrs of this crap.
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