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Old 10-29-2013   #301
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
You'd call firing a coach who went 2-14 in his 4th season a sign that he isn't cheap all because he spent 1.9 mill to get rid of him?
Wow! Relax... We were responding to an earlier post who was concerned that McNair would not fire Kubiak out of financial concerns due to a year remaining on his contract.

Simply, we were illustrating that McNair has done that in the past, which is reason to believe he would be willing to do so again. If we were defending McNair's financial generosity, we could make plenty of stronger and more relevant arguments to that end.
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Old 10-29-2013   #302
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Sure. I have immense respect for McNair and am grateful that he runs the organization I root for. I would love to offer my thoughts about this:

Bob McNair is not a penny-pinching owner. Evidence of that is that the Texans have always spent near the salary cap, while some team owners abused the system prior to the new CBA and were often $20-$40 million under the cap- and not for tactical reasons. Furthermore, Kubiak's contract is insignificant related to the yearly expenses of the organization... From a financial standpoint, McNair is clear that a winning team will make him much more profit, even carrying around the salary of a fired coach, than a losing team will.
* So, the first point is to realize McNair kept Kubiak after the 2010 season for reasons unrelated to his contract. Realize and accept the fact that McNair is more invested (in every way) to the success of the Texans than you are. Therefore, it is safe to asssume that his decisions are based on the team's success, even when you don't understand or agree with them.

Furthermore, I think McNair has earned respect for his decision-making based on everything we have seen/know about his life before and during his time with the Texans. That does not mean his decisions are always right. It also does not mean we can't or shouldn't second-guess them. It simply means we should assume that he has a working model for making decisions that is healthy, successful, and its foundation is built on principles that are good... not perfect, and he is prone to errors in judgement and execution, just like the rest of us.

I think 2010's decision exemplifies my point that McNair's decision-making deserves respect. Even I, an ardent supporter of Kubiak, was ready to go head coach shopping. McNair evaluated everything and decided, at significant risk to his finances and team's success, to stay the course with Kubiak while making some moderate adjustments to the organizational structure. Nothing about that decision was popular, conventional, or motivated by greed- he was losing the fan base instead of building it. However, he believes in consistency and does not view things as a reactionary, nor does he act on a wave of emotion, nor does he make decisions to gain popularity in media or among fans... all of those are good, strong traits for a leader. Clearly, he sees things in Kubiak that many of us do not and those things were not shaken beyond repair in 2010.

McNair has spoken at length about his desire to create a successful, stable model for the Texans. Twice in the history of the Texans organization, the team has had a season where it has retreated from forward growth/improvement (it happened in 2005 and again in 2010)... After 2005, he totally cleaned house and brought in a new group of people (great decision). Between 2006-2009 the team made clear progress winning games, developing talent and youth, repairing the salary cap, etc... While not rapid progress, many football people expected the team to become a contender in 2010. Instead, the team, after a 4-2 start, fell apart.

(another important truth to accept as a Texan fan is that McNair is patient. Immediate results are not a primary factor in his decisions. He is forward-looking- always concerned with how a decision today will effect results in three or four years. You don't have to share that philosophy or agree with it. However, it is important to understand that to avoid making the wrong conclusions about "why" he made a decision, or didn't)

Armed with the knowledge of what happened when he made the changes after 2005, he chose to stay the course, despite experiencing the benefit of changing up the organization 4 years earlier... Like it or not, that decision paid significant dividends for the organization. The Texans won two division championships and two playoff games in the two seasons since... While the results do not prove that his decision to keep Kubiak was "the right one", it does illustrate the decision was far from irrational or poor... whether or not you agree with it.

So, barring a reversal in fortune this season, which includes winning 7 or 8 of the final 9 games, he will (for a third time as Texans owner), find himself at the fork in the road, determining what to do about the regression of his football team. So far, he has made sweeping organizational changes once and chosen to make minor organizational changes once. In both instances, we (as fans) immediately experienced the positive benefit of those huge decisions- being rewarded with a dramatically better product on the field in both instances, with more hope and optimism as well.

Personally, I am looking forward to the re-evaluation process. I am confident that the failings of the season's end in 2012 and this season will be addressed at season's end, and I anticipate the organization will be stronger and the product will be better as a result- I don't know what will be done. Whether Kubiak will be fired, Rick Smith, etc... I am confident McNair will take action to correct the problems he recognizes while minimizing the chances of creating greater problems.

Here's my best guess:

If the Texans finish with a losing record, Gary Kubiak will step down within two weeks of the season's end. McNair will shower him with praise and gratitude, and it will be genuine. I believe Rick Smith will remain in place as the GM, and he and McNair will work together on the head coaching search, which will not be Wade Phillips.

If the Texans finish with 8 or 9 wins (but out of the playoffs), I have no idea what will happen.

Overall, I am fairly convinced that McNair has confidence in Rick Smith and has (in some manner) worked with Rick in anticipation of a time with Kubiak is no longer with the organization. I think Kubiak was given the 2011 season largely to give McNair and Smith time to prepare. In other words, McNair does not want to blow everything up again. He wants stability and believes and likes the current system/philosophy that Kubiak brought here in 2006. I think he also sees Kubiak's limitations as a head coach. Rick Smith does not have those same limitations, and I think he recognizes that Rick Smith has steadily become a better GM and is a stronger decision-maker who has the potential to be a great GM. However, because of Smith's youth and inexperience, he was not ready to fully take over the organization, go through the hiring process, bring in "his" people, all in the midst of the lockout after 2010.

I actually think that Kubiak's ultimate fate this year will come down to Rick Smith's recommendation to McNair... ironic, totally unprovable. However, that is what I think. Furthermore, Smith is cold and calculating enough to cut Kubiak loose.
Lets just say I disagree with most of your opinions on BoB/Rick/Gary, their motives and how they conduct business. It appears that it will take another 2-14 season and a fan uprising for BoB to make a change. After all BoB spent between 100-200 mil after taxpayer and Reliant deals (This doesn't include minority owner $$$$) and the franchise is worth approx 1.5 bil.

Why would Bob ever change he's a great businessman, business always comes 1st and BoB is making $$$$$ by the bundles. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) But the fanbase shouldn't expect any change. Why? because it could be bad for business and BoB's not going to have any of that. After all, BoB and Bud were close friends and BoB admired Bud.
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Old 10-30-2013   #303
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Lets just say I disagree with most of your opinions on BoB/Rick/Gary, their motives and how they conduct business. It appears that it will take another 2-14 season and a fan uprising for BoB to make a change. After all BoB spent between 100-200 mil after taxpayer and Reliant deals (This doesn't include minority owner $$$$) and the franchise is worth approx 1.5 bil.

Why would Bob ever change he's a great businessman, business always comes 1st and BoB is making $$$$$ by the bundles. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) But the fanbase shouldn't expect any change. Why? because it could be bad for business and BoB's not going to have any of that. After all, BoB and Bud were close friends and BoB admired Bud.
I'm confident in my impression of McNair... It doesn't mean I am right, but I would be very surprised to discover that the inaction/decisions by McNair to keep Kubiak after 2010, for instance, is motivated by the bottom line- as if the financial success was incongruent with the team's on the field success. What you are describing sounds more like Max Bialystock from The Producers... either that, or the dancer from Major League. I think you are frustrated with his patience, which I get. I just don't think it is a callous disregard for the product on the field.
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Old 10-30-2013   #304
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I'm confident in my impression of McNair... It doesn't mean I am right, but I would be very surprised to discover that the inaction/decisions by McNair to keep Kubiak after 2010, for instance, is motivated by the bottom line- as if the financial success was incongruent with the team's on the field success. What you are describing sounds more like Max Bialystock from The Producers... either that, or the dancer from Major League. I think you are frustrated with his patience, which I get. I just don't think it is a callous disregard for the product on the field.
I respect your stance, so far5 the $$$$ is on my side of this discussion, therefore I'm just as confident in my impressions when it comes to BoB and the current state of the Texans franchise.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.
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Old 10-30-2013   #305
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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My gut says if McNair wouldn't eat a year of his contract after the 2010 collapse what has changed that would make us believe he'll do it now. My gut says it ain't gonna happen.

Other opinions??
I think it's about replacement cost. Say what you will about Kubiak, but like Schaub.... he's good enough. & you don't just throw away good enough.

If McNair believes Houston is now a destination to get a Lovie Smith type of guy, I'm sure he'll move on it. Or if there was a college coach he feels really good about, someone with NFL experience.

But I don't think he wants to get stuck with another first timer, or a Chan Gailey... Norv Turner maybe.

I personally don't think a Jon Gruden, or a Bill Cowher would seriously consider Houston. They'll throw Houston around here & there, like Peyton did, but that's just to start a bidding war. I honestly feel that if we were the front runner, they'd go back to their cushy jobs & all the "good" coaches would be gone before we moved on.
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Old 10-30-2013   #306
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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When are you ever going to wake up from this dream world you continue to paint yourself in with this regime? Every year there are all these high expectations for the Texans from you whether it's these players that haven't proven anything in the NFL, or that Kubiak is going to make all of these changes with how he handles situations and players, or whether Rick Smith is going to be this shrewd GM that becomes the benchmark around the league? Every year it's the same song and dance when we start the season from you and then when all these failures start happening even in our better seasons it's always all of this stuff that is just on the players but never the coaching staff or the GM. And what have you not paid attention to as far as the relationship between Rick Smith and Kubiak? Those two are attached at the hip and that is the biggest problem with this organization. The HC appointed his own boss. Rick Smith wouldn't have gotten this job if it weren't for Kubiak, and Smith will never be the guy to tell Bob to cut him loose. If he were this shrewd GM like you always like to suggest he would have done that the season where we went 6-10, because we've wasted a 3rd season now with Kubiak making pretty much all of your feel good posts about Kubiak over the years fall very flat.

I'm sorry, but I'll never understand the hero worship that some of you fans get with coaches who you've never had a personal relationship with when at the same time you're supposed to want a winning team that can go all the way potentially. Constantly making twisted excuses for a failed regime after 8 seasons is no different then a battered woman who makes excuses for her husband who beats on her every night after he downs a bottle. It's that constant denial of ever wanting to believe that something is wrong or isn't on the right track.
ditto....It's the Kool Aid, must be highly addictive. DM will have to be weened.

The 2 coaches most responsible for Texans success of 11' & 12" are Alex Gibbs and Wade Phillips.

It wasn't until Texans had a running game and a defense that allowed them to become successful. Gibbs was gone but he spent 2 years putting in his system that remains today.

The question is who will be shown the door first, Smith or Kubiak. Smith was an Asst GM in Denver and Kubiak brought him to Houston because Smith knew the system and Kubiak could trust Rick to do what Gary needed done. Kubiak to this day still has final say on the 53 man roster. Rick Smith is to Gary Kubiak as Scott Pioli was to Bill Belichick. Nothing more. Believe it or not the drafting of Sam Montgomery is the straw that gets Smith fired. McNair has done his homework and knows why most of the teams had Montgomery off their draft boards and Texans didn't.

When fans start showing up with bags on their head, burning jerseys in the parking lot, bashing Texans/McNair/Kubiak 24/7 on Houston radio Kubiak/Smith will be fired on the Monday following the last Sunday game.
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Old 10-30-2013   #307
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When fans start showing up with bags on their head, burning jerseys in the parking lot, bashing Texans/McNair/Kubiak 24/7 on Houston radio Kubiak/Smith will be fired on the Monday following the last Sunday game.
I agree that Smith & Kubiak should be let go but...if McNair listens to the fans and goes against his own evaluation then the Texans won't ever be successful. Fans like us really have no clue of the actual way things are happening behind closed doors. You assume you have an idea hire draft picks are decided on. You assume how that Kubiak calls plays that ask the QB to pass short of the first down maker. You assume that the increase in penalties are a result of poor coaching. Bottom line is only McNair and the Texans staff really know what the problems are. GM, coach/s, players, injuries... Lets hope McNair figures out the problem/s and corrects them this offseason. Lets hope he is capable of figuring it out without listening to jersey-burning, bag-wearing, whiney radio calling, open letter writing "fans".
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Old 10-30-2013   #308
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I agree that Smith & Kubiak should be let go but...if McNair listens to the fans and goes against his own evaluation then the Texans won't ever be successful. Fans like us really have no clue of the actual way things are happening behind closed doors. You assume you have an idea hire draft picks are decided on. You assume how that Kubiak calls plays that ask the QB to pass short of the first down maker. You assume that the increase in penalties are a result of poor coaching. Bottom line is only McNair and the Texans staff really know what the problems are. GM, coach/s, players, injuries... Lets hope McNair figures out the problem/s and corrects them this offseason. Lets hope he is capable of figuring it out without listening to jersey-burning, bag-wearing, whiney radio calling, open letter writing "fans".
You're making a lot of assumptions about what I assume. The words that you're trying to put in my mouth couldn't be more WRONG. Bob McNair cannot afford to lose the fans of the Houston Texans and the City of Houston. Bob McNair is to smart to allow that to happen and that you can take to bank and can quote me on all day long.
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Old 10-30-2013   #309
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You're making a lot of assumptions about what I assume. The words that you're trying to put in my mouth couldn't be more WRONG. Bob McNair cannot afford to lose the fans of the Houston Texans and the City of Houston. Bob McNair is to smart to allow that to happen and that you can take to bank and can quote me on all day long.
Not that it makes a difference at all:
You=fans. You=/=Texian
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Old 10-30-2013   #310
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I agree that Smith & Kubiak should be let go but...if McNair listens to the fans and goes against his own evaluation then the Texans won't ever be successful. Fans like us really have no clue of the actual way things are happening behind closed doors. You assume you have an idea hire draft picks are decided on. You assume how that Kubiak calls plays that ask the QB to pass short of the first down maker. You assume that the increase in penalties are a result of poor coaching. Bottom line is only McNair and the Texans staff really know what the problems are. GM, coach/s, players, injuries... Lets hope McNair figures out the problem/s and corrects them this offseason. Lets hope he is capable of figuring it out without listening to jersey-burning, bag-wearing, whiney radio calling, open letter writing "fans".
I assume that after 8 yrs of Rick/Gary the Texans still suck.

It's time to move on.

This is coming from a guy who has held season tickets since season 2.
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Old 10-30-2013   #311
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

How about those vets the Texans couldn't afford but the wisdom and cap management of the Ravens got:

Michael Huff 3 yrs, $6 mil - waived.
Marcus Spears 2 yrs, $2.75 mil - waived

Replaced by practice squad players.
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Old 10-30-2013   #312
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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How about those vets the Texans couldn't afford but the wisdom and cap management of the Ravens got:

Michael Huff 3 yrs, $6 mil - waived.
Marcus Spears 2 yrs, $2.75 mil - waived

Replaced by practice squad players.
How about those Ravens. This should come as no surprise to those familiar with Ravens FO and that the Ravens actually drafted better players than they signed in Free Agency. The lesson to be learned here is the Ravens did have the money to spend on expensive FAs unlike the Texans . Clearly Elam and Williams are better than Huff and Spears. Oh the luxury of freeing up even more cap space for 2014. All the more reason Bob McNair's first phone call should be to Eric DeCosta, Asst GM for the Baltimore Ravens.
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Old 10-30-2013   #313
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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How about those Ravens. This should come as no surprise to those familiar with Ravens FO and that the Ravens actually drafted better players than they signed in Free Agency. The lesson to be learned here is the Ravens did have the money to spend on expensive FAs unlike the Texans . Clearly Elam and Williams are better than Huff and Spears. Oh the luxury of freeing up even more cap space for 2014. All the more reason Bob McNair's first phone call should be to Eric DeCosta, Asst GM for the Baltimore Ravens.
QFT

Rah Rah Rah
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Old 10-30-2013   #314
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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QFT

Rah Rah Rah
Dashboard Dog says, YES! YES! YES!

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Old 10-30-2013   #315
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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How about those Ravens. This should come as no surprise to those familiar with Ravens FO and that the Ravens actually drafted better players than they signed in Free Agency. The lesson to be learned here is the Ravens did have the money to spend on expensive FAs unlike the Texans . Clearly Elam and Williams are better than Huff and Spears. Oh the luxury of freeing up even more cap space for 2014. All the more reason Bob McNair's first phone call should be to Eric DeCosta, Asst GM for the Baltimore Ravens.
More cap space? Next year, the Ravens have 32 players under contract and a cap figure of $112 million... and this is after last season's salary dump. They have no end in sight for their cap woes because all their contracts have significant dead money attached to them and they have kicked the can down the road.

The Texans have 36 players under contract and a cap figure of $117 million. Furthermore, the Texans could cut Schaub, OD, and either Manning or Ed Reed, and it would reduce their cap number by $15 million... and that doesn't include the option of cutting or restructuring Chris Myers $7 million cap figure (with no dead money attached) or Joseph's $11 million cap figure (with no dead money attached).

For you to so ardently defend Baltimore's cap situation despite any basis in reality illustrates how clouded your reason is by bitterness. The Texans are 2-5 this year. There are plenty of things to criticize without making stuff up!

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore.../cap-hit/2014/
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Old 10-30-2013   #316
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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More cap space? Next year,For you to so ardently defend Baltimore's cap situation despite any basis in reality illustrates how clouded your reason is by bitterness. The Texans are 2-5 this year. There are plenty of things to criticize without making stuff up!

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore.../cap-hit/2014/
Simmer down...now....you really have no clue.......yes the Ravens saved $3 mil in 2014 salary cap space by cutting Huff and Spears. You're confusing bitterness with objectivity. YADA on DM, YADA on...

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Old 10-30-2013   #317
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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The lesson to be learned here is the Ravens did have the money to spend on expensive FAs unlike the Texans .
Eh... the Texans don't sign FAs like Huff & Spears anyway. Like every other year, there'd have been a cadre of fans saying we should have & when they don't perform... it gets swept under the rug that the Texans did the right thing not signing them to begin with.

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Clearly Elam and Williams are better than Huff and Spears.
I don't know that yet. Like Schaub, surely they can't be any worse.

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Oh the luxury of freeing up even more cap space for 2014. All the more reason Bob McNair's first phone call should be to Eric DeCosta, Asst GM for the Baltimore Ravens.
How's that different than our ability to cut Reed? The whole situation with Huff is exactly like our situation with Reed, except Huff was never any good.

In summary, your stance is, "if anyone other than the Texans do it, it's good. If the Texans do it, it's not good."

Gotcha
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Old 10-30-2013   #318
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Simmer down...now....you really have no clue.......yes the Ravens saved $3 mil in 2014 salary cap space but cutting Huff and Spears. You're confusing bitterness with objectivity. YADA on DM, YADA on...
Not to here but dm's point was easy to follow while your response, not so much to me.

Can you explain your YADA..... comments so someone runnin' on a slow bell like myself can understand what you're saying?

I've not done the research as you two obviously have but it seems from dm's comments the Birds are in trouble in the future and your retort is they're not.

Can you expound on your position?
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Old 10-30-2013   #319
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Eh... the Texans don't sign FAs like Huff & Spears anyway.
Exactly right. Why? Because the Texans don't have the money to that's why.



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I don't know that yet.
The Ravens do, that's why they cut Huff and Spears. That Simple!


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How's that different than our ability to cut Reed?
The Ravens cut Huff because they've Elam, if the Texans cut Reed they don't have anyone nearly as good as Elam to replace him with.


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In summary, your stance is, "if anyone other than the Texans do it, it's good. If the Texans do it, it's not good."
No, I just don't drink the Kool Aid. The Kool Aid allows those who do drink it the ability to see that the Texans can do no wrong. To the contrary I am still able to maintain an objective point of view.

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Gotcha
Uh, nope, you didn't
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Old 10-30-2013   #320
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Not to here but dm's point was easy to follow while your response, not so much to me.

Can you explain your YADA..... comments so someone runnin' on a slow bell like myself can understand what you're saying?
Easily, just go back and read DM's last 10 post, he lives in his own little world of make believe. Many of his explanations are done in the language of YADA.

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I've not done the research as you two obviously have but it seems from dm's comments the Birds are in trouble in the future and your retort is they're not.

Can you expound on your position?
Easily, the Ravens have Ozzie Newsome and the Texans don't.
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