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Old 10-28-2013   #281
steelbtexan
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Make your argument. It can't simply be, "the record proves it". Talented teams have had bad stretches. Teams with little talent have had winning streaks... Do you think the jets have more talent than the texans? Explain.

Maybe you are right. But, break it down... You must love Kubiak as a coach to get so much out of an untalented team the past two years.
Cant have it both ways,

Either the talent is very overrated, or Gary has done a very bad job coaching the team this yr. Or maybe it's a combination of Rick doing a bad job, IE lack of talent and Gary being Gary and reverting back to the early Texan yrs.

8 yrs of Gary is about 3 too many. IMHO
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Old 10-28-2013   #282
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Cant have it both ways,

Either the talent is very overrated, or Gary has done a very bad job coaching the team this yr. Or maybe it's a combination of Rick doing a bad job, IE lack of talent and Gary being Gary and reverting back to the early Texan yrs.

8 yrs of Gary is about 3 too many. IMHO
Exactly.

Clearly, Kubiak has done a poor job of coaching this year. I think he and Wade both failed the team last December and January of last season... I don't have a complaint about the job he did in 2011, though.
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Old 10-29-2013   #283
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

I thought Gary had his finest yr last yr.

A banged up Schaub.

The OL didn't replace Winston/ Briesel. No speed at WR and the Texans went as far there talent with great coaching could take them. Even though the defense lost Cushing, they didn't allow a TD against Cincy. By the time the Texans faced the Pats they were banged up. It didn't suprise me that they got blown out by the Pats in New England. That's happened to alot of teams. Brady vs Schaub at New England, I mean did you really think the Texans were going to win. Especially after stinking it up the last month of the season and blowin HF advantage.

Gary must go and take Coach Joe with him. I know BoB will never do this because it might be to traumatic. But 8 yrs is enough for me to know Gary isn't the man to lead the Texans to a SB. In fact 8 yrs is about 3 too many for my taste. BTW, what are the odds of BoB eating the last yr of Gary's contract and spending the $$$$ to hire a proven winner? 1,000,000 to 1?
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Old 10-29-2013   #284
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Exactly.

Clearly, Kubiak has done a poor job of coaching this year. I think he and Wade both failed the team last December and January of last season... I don't have a complaint about the job he did in 2011, though.
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I thought Gary had his finest yr last yr.

A banged up Schaub.

The OL didn't replace Winston/ Briesel. No speed at WR and the Texans went as far there talent with great coaching could take them. Even though the defense lost Cushing, they didn't allow a TD against Cincy. By the time the Texans faced the Pats they were banged up. It didn't suprise me that they got blown out by the Pats in New England. That's happened to alot of teams. Brady vs Schaub at New England, I mean did you really think the Texans were going to win. Especially after stinking it up the last month of the season and blowin HF advantage.

Gary must go and take Coach Joe with him. I know BoB will never do this because it might be to traumatic. But 8 yrs is enough for me to know Gary isn't the man to lead the Texans to a SB. In fact 8 yrs is about 3 too many for my taste. BTW, what are the odds of BoB eating the last yr of Gary's contract and spending the $$$$ to hire a proven winner? 1,000,000 to 1?
Much of the Texans success in 2011 & 2012 is closely associated to the success the Dallas Cowboys are having in 2013. Confused? See the division standings.
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Old 10-29-2013   #285
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I thought Gary had his finest yr last yr.
Really? Let's examine.

Quote:
A banged up Schaub ...
... that Kubiak extended AFTER the injury that people are claiming is still affecting him.

Quote:
The OL didn't replace Winston/ Briesel.
KUBIAK didn't replace Winston/Brisiel.

Quote:
No speed at WR and the Texans went as far there talent with great coaching could take them.
Who failed to bring in any WR speed again? Year after year after year? I guess you can say he coached them up, but if so, you'd have to think he could have done a good job coaching faster WRs too.

Not jumping on you, but I don't like Teflon.
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Old 10-29-2013   #286
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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comparing morey and smith as GMs is one of the stupidest things ive seen on this thread.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPORT. morey has 12 roster positions, football has 53. much more parity in football, and MUCH easier to turn a program around.

in basketball, you NEED 1 top 10 player to be relevant, 2 to compete realistically. AND, take into consideration that morey inherited the yao-tmac injury mess. the fact that he turned it around without tanking (which, isnt garaunteed) is unbelievable. even if it took, gasp, 6 years.
The first part of your post missed the point completely, and then you agree with me in your last paragraph.
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Old 10-29-2013   #287
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I thought Gary had his finest yr last yr.

A banged up Schaub.

The OL didn't replace Winston/ Briesel. No speed at WR and the Texans went as far there talent with great coaching could take them. Even though the defense lost Cushing, they didn't allow a TD against Cincy. By the time the Texans faced the Pats they were banged up. It didn't suprise me that they got blown out by the Pats in New England. That's happened to alot of teams. Brady vs Schaub at New England, I mean did you really think the Texans were going to win. Especially after stinking it up the last month of the season and blowin HF advantage.

Gary must go and take Coach Joe with him. I know BoB will never do this because it might be to traumatic. But 8 yrs is enough for me to know Gary isn't the man to lead the Texans to a SB. In fact 8 yrs is about 3 too many for my taste. BTW, what are the odds of BoB eating the last yr of Gary's contract and spending the $$$$ to hire a proven winner? 1,000,000 to 1?
steelb,

I've been asking this question every time I could get it in edgewise and still haven't gotten a response. I hope someone will hop in here and give an honest answer. My gut says if McNair wouldn't eat a year of his contract after the 2010 collapse what has changed that would make us believe he'll do it now. My gut says it ain't gonna happen.

Other opinions??
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Old 10-29-2013   #288
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I thought Gary had his finest yr last yr.

A banged up Schaub.

The OL didn't replace Winston/ Briesel. No speed at WR and the Texans went as far there talent with great coaching could take them. Even though the defense lost Cushing, they didn't allow a TD against Cincy. By the time the Texans faced the Pats they were banged up. It didn't suprise me that they got blown out by the Pats in New England. That's happened to alot of teams. Brady vs Schaub at New England, I mean did you really think the Texans were going to win. Especially after stinking it up the last month of the season and blowin HF advantage.

Gary must go and take Coach Joe with him. I know BoB will never do this because it might be to traumatic. But 8 yrs is enough for me to know Gary isn't the man to lead the Texans to a SB. In fact 8 yrs is about 3 too many for my taste. BTW, what are the odds of BoB eating the last yr of Gary's contract and spending the $$$$ to hire a proven winner? 1,000,000 to 1?
I know they were going to get blown out by New England. I knew it, because the coaching was being exposed on both sides of the ball. I thought the team played one good game all year and that was against Baltimore... Other than that, they beat up on bad teams and made enough big plays against the mediocre ones until things fell apart in December.

In 2011, the Texans were the best team in the NFL until the Schaub injury... They were playing great football! Afterwards, without AJ, and with a rookie QB who wasn't even invited to the combine, he kept the team together- playing pretty good football, won a playoff game and even had a chance to win another in Baltimore- despite an impossible set of circumstances.

Regardless, though, I think we both can agree that the team, while it has holes in its talent (like all teams do), is a talented football team and is clearly under-performing this year.
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Old 10-29-2013   #289
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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steelb,

I've been asking this question every time I could get it in edgewise and still haven't gotten a response. I hope someone will hop in here and give an honest answer. My gut says if McNair wouldn't eat a year of his contract after the 2010 collapse what has changed that would make us believe he'll do it now. My gut says it ain't gonna happen.

Other opinions??
I don't think McNair will have a problem eating the last year of the contract if he feels like Kubiak has come as far as he'll get. The question is, and this is the reason he excused 2010, does he think Kubiak is done? I think he believes in Kubiak and puts a lot of this on the players. That's a separate issue from the year on the contract, but same result.
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Old 10-29-2013   #290
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steelb,

I've been asking this question every time I could get it in edgewise and still haven't gotten a response. I hope someone will hop in here and give an honest answer. My gut says if McNair wouldn't eat a year of his contract after the 2010 collapse what has changed that would make us believe he'll do it now. My gut says it ain't gonna happen.

Other opinions??
Bob McNair would eat the salary if he felt it would greatly benefit the team - IMO.

2010 - CBA delaying the offseason, offense was good, defense was terrible, Wade Phillips added, 5 one score losses (including some last second losses) and the fact that a coach change doesn't guarantee better results.

2013 - team is underperforming in all areas, qb play has been terrible, only 2 wins could easily be 2 losses, offense can't score tds.

The team may still have to bomb the rest of the season (like 2-7) for Kubiak to lose his job. McNair likes stability. I think Kubiak stays if this team plays hard, wins 4-5 more games and shows hope for the future. Should he be gone no matter what happens after this start? That's up for debate.
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Old 10-29-2013   #291
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

I think our WR talent is ok. I don't think Schaub has done a good job using it.
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Old 10-29-2013   #292
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I think our WR talent is ok. I don't think Schaub has done a good job using it.
I'm beginning to think that as well. Last week we had Posey and Jean catching passes. I didn't think Jean even played WR here anymore.
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Old 10-29-2013   #293
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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steelb,

I've been asking this question every time I could get it in edgewise and still haven't gotten a response. I hope someone will hop in here and give an honest answer. My gut says if McNair wouldn't eat a year of his contract after the 2010 collapse what has changed that would make us believe he'll do it now. My gut says it ain't gonna happen.

Other opinions??
Sure. I have immense respect for McNair and am grateful that he runs the organization I root for. I would love to offer my thoughts about this:

Bob McNair is not a penny-pinching owner. Evidence of that is that the Texans have always spent near the salary cap, while some team owners abused the system prior to the new CBA and were often $20-$40 million under the cap- and not for tactical reasons. Furthermore, Kubiak's contract is insignificant related to the yearly expenses of the organization... From a financial standpoint, McNair is clear that a winning team will make him much more profit, even carrying around the salary of a fired coach, than a losing team will.
* So, the first point is to realize McNair kept Kubiak after the 2010 season for reasons unrelated to his contract. Realize and accept the fact that McNair is more invested (in every way) to the success of the Texans than you are. Therefore, it is safe to asssume that his decisions are based on the team's success, even when you don't understand or agree with them.

Furthermore, I think McNair has earned respect for his decision-making based on everything we have seen/know about his life before and during his time with the Texans. That does not mean his decisions are always right. It also does not mean we can't or shouldn't second-guess them. It simply means we should assume that he has a working model for making decisions that is healthy, successful, and its foundation is built on principles that are good... not perfect, and he is prone to errors in judgement and execution, just like the rest of us.

I think 2010's decision exemplifies my point that McNair's decision-making deserves respect. Even I, an ardent supporter of Kubiak, was ready to go head coach shopping. McNair evaluated everything and decided, at significant risk to his finances and team's success, to stay the course with Kubiak while making some moderate adjustments to the organizational structure. Nothing about that decision was popular, conventional, or motivated by greed- he was losing the fan base instead of building it. However, he believes in consistency and does not view things as a reactionary, nor does he act on a wave of emotion, nor does he make decisions to gain popularity in media or among fans... all of those are good, strong traits for a leader. Clearly, he sees things in Kubiak that many of us do not and those things were not shaken beyond repair in 2010.

McNair has spoken at length about his desire to create a successful, stable model for the Texans. Twice in the history of the Texans organization, the team has had a season where it has retreated from forward growth/improvement (it happened in 2005 and again in 2010)... After 2005, he totally cleaned house and brought in a new group of people (great decision). Between 2006-2009 the team made clear progress winning games, developing talent and youth, repairing the salary cap, etc... While not rapid progress, many football people expected the team to become a contender in 2010. Instead, the team, after a 4-2 start, fell apart.

(another important truth to accept as a Texan fan is that McNair is patient. Immediate results are not a primary factor in his decisions. He is forward-looking- always concerned with how a decision today will effect results in three or four years. You don't have to share that philosophy or agree with it. However, it is important to understand that to avoid making the wrong conclusions about "why" he made a decision, or didn't)

Armed with the knowledge of what happened when he made the changes after 2005, he chose to stay the course, despite experiencing the benefit of changing up the organization 4 years earlier... Like it or not, that decision paid significant dividends for the organization. The Texans won two division championships and two playoff games in the two seasons since... While the results do not prove that his decision to keep Kubiak was "the right one", it does illustrate the decision was far from irrational or poor... whether or not you agree with it.

So, barring a reversal in fortune this season, which includes winning 7 or 8 of the final 9 games, he will (for a third time as Texans owner), find himself at the fork in the road, determining what to do about the regression of his football team. So far, he has made sweeping organizational changes once and chosen to make minor organizational changes once. In both instances, we (as fans) immediately experienced the positive benefit of those huge decisions- being rewarded with a dramatically better product on the field in both instances, with more hope and optimism as well.

Personally, I am looking forward to the re-evaluation process. I am confident that the failings of the season's end in 2012 and this season will be addressed at season's end, and I anticipate the organization will be stronger and the product will be better as a result- I don't know what will be done. Whether Kubiak will be fired, Rick Smith, etc... I am confident McNair will take action to correct the problems he recognizes while minimizing the chances of creating greater problems.

Here's my best guess:

If the Texans finish with a losing record, Gary Kubiak will step down within two weeks of the season's end. McNair will shower him with praise and gratitude, and it will be genuine. I believe Rick Smith will remain in place as the GM, and he and McNair will work together on the head coaching search, which will not be Wade Phillips.

If the Texans finish with 8 or 9 wins (but out of the playoffs), I have no idea what will happen.

Overall, I am fairly convinced that McNair has confidence in Rick Smith and has (in some manner) worked with Rick in anticipation of a time with Kubiak is no longer with the organization. I think Kubiak was given the 2011 season largely to give McNair and Smith time to prepare. In other words, McNair does not want to blow everything up again. He wants stability and believes and likes the current system/philosophy that Kubiak brought here in 2006. I think he also sees Kubiak's limitations as a head coach. Rick Smith does not have those same limitations, and I think he recognizes that Rick Smith has steadily become a better GM and is a stronger decision-maker who has the potential to be a great GM. However, because of Smith's youth and inexperience, he was not ready to fully take over the organization, go through the hiring process, bring in "his" people, all in the midst of the lockout after 2010.

I actually think that Kubiak's ultimate fate this year will come down to Rick Smith's recommendation to McNair... ironic, totally unprovable. However, that is what I think. Furthermore, Smith is cold and calculating enough to cut Kubiak loose.
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Old 10-29-2013   #294
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
steelb,

I've been asking this question every time I could get it in edgewise and still haven't gotten a response. I hope someone will hop in here and give an honest answer. My gut says if McNair wouldn't eat a year of his contract after the 2010 collapse what has changed that would make us believe he'll do it now. My gut says it ain't gonna happen.

Other opinions??
Fan support or lack of or let's say fan uprising against Kubiak would be a major factor in Bob's decision. He can't afford to lose the fans.

Last edited by Texian; 10-30-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 10-29-2013   #295
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

Thanks for all the well thought out and presented responses. I agree with most of the takes. I, like the rest of us here, don't have a real handle on what's going on in McNair's mind but I do know he wants to field a winner and will do what he believes is necessary to get there. My main question though is answered. That being will the boss eat a year of contract? Seems like the answer is a resounding yes.

I just want the team to continue to improve and bring Tiffany to H-town.

Whatever it takes.

Go Texans!
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Old 10-29-2013   #296
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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My main question though is answered. That being will the boss eat a year of contract? Seems like the answer is a resounding yes.
McNair ate $1.9 mil to fire Capers so I am not sure why there was any debate on this.
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Old 10-29-2013   #297
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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McNair ate $1.9 mil to fire Capers so I am not sure why there was any debate on this.
Well, you know...'cause McNair is cheep.

j/k
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Old 10-29-2013   #298
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I actually think that Kubiak's ultimate fate this year will come down to Rick Smith's recommendation to McNair... ironic, totally unprovable. However, that is what I think. Furthermore, Smith is cold and calculating enough to cut Kubiak loose.
When are you ever going to wake up from this dream world you continue to paint yourself in with this regime? Every year there are all these high expectations for the Texans from you whether it's these players that haven't proven anything in the NFL, or that Kubiak is going to make all of these changes with how he handles situations and players, or whether Rick Smith is going to be this shrewd GM that becomes the benchmark around the league? Every year it's the same song and dance when we start the season from you and then when all these failures start happening even in our better seasons it's always all of this stuff that is just on the players but never the coaching staff or the GM. And what have you not paid attention to as far as the relationship between Rick Smith and Kubiak? Those two are attached at the hip and that is the biggest problem with this organization. The HC appointed his own boss. Rick Smith wouldn't have gotten this job if it weren't for Kubiak, and Smith will never be the guy to tell Bob to cut him loose. If he were this shrewd GM like you always like to suggest he would have done that the season where we went 6-10, because we've wasted a 3rd season now with Kubiak making pretty much all of your feel good posts about Kubiak over the years fall very flat.

I'm sorry, but I'll never understand the hero worship that some of you fans get with coaches who you've never had a personal relationship with when at the same time you're supposed to want a winning team that can go all the way potentially. Constantly making twisted excuses for a failed regime after 8 seasons is no different then a battered woman who makes excuses for her husband who beats on her every night after he downs a bottle. It's that constant denial of ever wanting to believe that something is wrong or isn't on the right track.
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Old 10-29-2013   #299
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
McNair ate $1.9 mil to fire Capers so I am not sure why there was any debate on this.
You'd call firing a coach who went 2-14 in his 4th season a sign that he isn't cheap all because he spent 1.9 mill to get rid of him?
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Old 10-29-2013   #300
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
When are you ever going to wake up from this dream world you continue to paint yourself in with this regime? Every year there are all these high expectations for the Texans from you whether it's these players that haven't proven anything in the NFL, or that Kubiak is going to make all of these changes with how he handles situations and players, or whether Rick Smith is going to be this shrewd GM that becomes the benchmark around the league? Every year it's the same song and dance when we start the season from you and then when all these failures start happening even in our better seasons it's always all of this stuff that is just on the players but never the coaching staff or the GM. And what have you not paid attention to as far as the relationship between Rick Smith and Kubiak? Those two are attached at the hip and that is the biggest problem with this organization. The HC appointed his own boss. Rick Smith wouldn't have gotten this job if it weren't for Kubiak, and Smith will never be the guy to tell Bob to cut him loose. If he were this shrewd GM like you always like to suggest he would have done that the season where we went 6-10, because we've wasted a 3rd season now with Kubiak making pretty much all of your feel good posts about Kubiak over the years fall very flat.

I'm sorry, but I'll never understand the hero worship that some of you fans get with coaches who you've never had a personal relationship with when at the same time you're supposed to want a winning team that can go all the way potentially. Constantly making twisted excuses for a failed regime after 8 seasons is no different then a battered woman who makes excuses for her husband who beats on her every night after he downs a bottle. It's that constant denial of ever wanting to believe that something is wrong or isn't on the right track.
I don't think I am the one with a twisted perspective of reality. I don't think my decision to experience an entertainment experience with a hopeful lens is anything like a codependent, violent, abusive relationship.

Beyond your radical overstatements and absurd intensity with which you disapprove of my optimistic attitude about the Texans, it still baffles me that you say I always make excuses for this coach and only hold the players accountable.... I think I've been clear in my assessment of Kubiak's limitations overall and also his failure at the end of last season, this season, and also in 2010. I understand people wanting him fired. Why does it bother you that I do not? I like him and enjoy rooting for the team. As a fan the past 8 years, I have been entertained and hopeful through most of it, and I enjoy this group of characters. Don't worry. I'm not making the decisions and have no impact on what happens. Your intense disdain for the way I choose to experience the NFL as a spectator is very peculiar.

Regarding the relationship between Kubiak and Smith: Kubiak did hire Smith. However, Smith at that point was not his boss. As I have said, I believe that dynamic is quite different now (following 2010). I can't prove it nor do I need you to believe. It is my conclusion. I was simply giving my best guess as to how the off-season will unfold, which is why I titled that section of my post "my best guess". We will see what happens. You could simply say that you totally disagree and believe Kubiak is still in charge and that you doubt Smith's competence as GM... Okay. Got it. Enjoy the season. It seems that your attitude and perspective regarding the Texans is very enriching to your life. I'll continue to do my thing, though... No offense.
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