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Coaching Leadership, would like to see it

El Tejano

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
In the past 3 weeks I've seen two coaches, Pete Carroll and Jeff Fisher, rally their troops. Pete Carroll did it in the 4th quarter when he saw his team cut down a lead, and Fis
her did it when he smelled blood in the water and felt he could come out of the game with a win. Fisher probably thought to himself that his team was young enough to give up a lead so why not rally the troops and get everyone on the same mindset.

I have yet to see Kubiak do that this season when his team needed it the most.

Some may say 'you are screwed already if you have to rally the troops' but I think a coach has to rise to the occasion when he sees his team getting beat and not looking like they want to try.Talk about winning the game and how that's more important and that we still can win etc.... Instead we just see him looking mad on the sideline.


52465e24d45bd.preview-620.jpg
 
Coaching leadership to me is defined by making the correct decisions at the appropriate time, and sometimes those are not only hard decisions, but may be unpopular. If he starts Case this week then I will have much more respect for Gary than I do now. We have seen what we have with Eeyore and TJ, its time to shake things up and see if a spark can be lit.
 
What ever the definition is, we don't have it. This guy should have never been given the extention.
 
I said to my friend when Fisher had his team around him that that's what a real coach acts like. Of course my friend says, "Yeah, but how many wins does he have." He also thinks we should trade for a QB instead of drafting one because we are in "win now" mode.

:mariopalm:
 
You are NEVER going to see fired up leadership from Coach Milquetoast or Matt Shrug. They form a deadly combination of "meh" when you need a "let's go out there and kick some butt!"
 
the "spark" argument is so overplayed. It'd be 1 thing if this team was playing well in every other facet of this game & just needed something to jump start the offense. That's not the case with this team.


inept quarterbacking
predictable & unimaginative playcalling
o-line isn't playing well at all
offense overall stagnates in the red zone
We don't create TO's
pass rush is anemic
defense on the whole can't keep anyone out of the red zone
.
.
.
penalties...too many at inappropriate times
Special teams are a joke

& all that isn't even mentioning the slug of a head coach we have.

A spark can definitely help with 2 of those things...maybe it can mask another. The rest are overall problems that don't project to be helped by a spark.'

Lastly, a "spark" is just that. A spark....as in temporary. We don't need a spark we need a permanent flame...a good head coach is usually the guy that keeps that flame permanently burning within his team...we don't have that...we have a guy who can't keep that flame going on his own..& only keeps it going b/c the owner keeps giving him lighter fluid.
 
Mr teX said:
the "spark" argument is so overplayed. It'd be 1 thing if this team was playing well in every other facet of this game & just needed something to jump start the offense. That's not the case with this team.


inept quarterbacking
predictable & unimaginative playcalling
o-line isn't playing well at all
offense overall stagnates in the red zone
We don't create TO's
pass rush is anemic
defense on the whole can't keep anyone out of the red zone
.
.
.
penalties...too many at inappropriate times
Special teams are a joke

& all that isn't even mentioning the slug of a head coach we have.

A spark can definitely help with 2 of those things...maybe it can mask another. The rest are overall problems that don't project to be helped by a spark.'

Lastly, a "spark" is just that. A spark....as in temporary. We don't need a spark we need a permanent flame...a good head coach is usually the guy that keeps that flame permanently burning within his team.
Click to expand...

I think the spark metaphore is pretty good, noone assure you that a spark could generate a roaring fire, but still you have to start from something.

maybe the team is bad just because players are bad, or maybe the team have good elements but they need something to get them to play at the level they're capable of.
 
Mr teX said:
the "spark" argument is so overplayed. It'd be 1 thing if this team was playing well in every other facet of this game & just needed something to jump start the offense. That's not the case with this team.


inept quarterbacking
predictable & unimaginative playcalling
o-line isn't playing well at all
offense overall stagnates in the red zone
We don't create TO's
pass rush is anemic
defense on the whole can't keep anyone out of the red zone
.
.
.
penalties...too many at inappropriate times
Special teams are a joke

& all that isn't even mentioning the slug of a head coach we have.

A spark can definitely help with 2 of those things...maybe it can mask another. The rest are overall problems that don't project to be helped by a spark.'

Lastly, a "spark" is just that. A spark....as in temporary. We don't need a spark we need a permanent flame...a good head coach is usually the guy that keeps that flame permanently burning within his team...we don't have that...we have a guy who can't keep that flame going on his own..& only keeps it going b/c the owner keeps giving him lighter fluid.
Click to expand...

Leadership isn't just about supplying an emotional spark, it's about providing a psychological edge and getting your team ready to COMPETE every single week. Look at the mistakes (penalties) all over the field. And take a look at a long-running issue with the team not being ready to play in the first half of games. That's leadership...or rather...a lack of leadership. This coaching staff is just not getting their players to be mentally sharp.

Kubiak has a system, and he doesn't deviate from that system. At some point, predictability and complacency start to plague a system that isn't seeing success. I'm sure he probably approaches practices the same way every day, never questioning if something needs to be radically changed up because it's his "system," and he believes in it so thoroughly that he's blind to its glaring weaknesses.

You can see the inherent issues that Kubiak has with his placing faith in something and basically "setting it and forgetting it." It's not only his playcalling. Remember Richard Smith. Now Marciano. And Schaub. Kubiak has ZERO flexibility, zero adaptability. Good leaders are also creative leaders and leadership is not just about guidance, it's about contingency plans and getting out of jams. Thinking on one's feet.

Kubiak can't do any of that stuff. He. Has. His. System. The only reason he hasn't bronzed that damn Denny's menu of boring plays yet is that it would probably be too heavy to hold on the sidelines the whole game.

He needs to go. Go on, git.
 
kingtexan said:
Coaching leadership to me is defined by making the correct decisions at the appropriate time, and sometimes those are not only hard decisions, but may be unpopular. If he starts Case this week then I will have much more respect for Gary than I do now. We have seen what we have with Eeyore and TJ, its time to shake things up and see if a spark can be lit.
Click to expand...



Starting Case would show a lack of leadership and folding to ignorant fan pressure. At best if you are a Case fan you would want to give him weeks of snaps with the 1st teamers in practice so if he starts it should be after the bye
 
IlliniJen said:
Leadership isn't just about supplying an emotional spark, it's about providing a psychological edge and getting your team ready to COMPETE every single week. Look at the mistakes (penalties) all over the field. And take a look at a long-running issue with the team not being ready to play in the first half of games. That's leadership...or rather...a lack of leadership. This coaching staff is just not getting their players to be mentally sharp.

Kubiak has a system, and he doesn't deviate from that system. At some point, predictability and complacency start to plague a system that isn't seeing success. I'm sure he probably approaches practices the same way every day, never questioning if something needs to be radically changed up because it's his "system," and he believes in it so thoroughly that he's blind to its glaring weaknesses.

You can see the inherent issues that Kubiak has with his placing faith in something and basically "setting it and forgetting it." It's not only his playcalling. Remember Richard Smith. Now Marciano. And Schaub. Kubiak has ZERO flexibility, zero adaptability. Good leaders are also creative leaders and leadership is not just about guidance, it's about contingency plans and getting out of jams. Thinking on one's feet.

Kubiak can't do any of that stuff. He. Has. His. System. The only reason he hasn't bronzed that damn Denny's menu of boring plays yet is that it would probably be too heavy to hold on the sidelines the whole game.

He needs to go. Go on, git.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more and really that was my overal point, MSR. After 8 years, you can't hide this team's overall issues anymore.
 
In all honesty, I want to see the team ask the fans for their support. I want Kubiak & Schaub especially to come out & say, "We screwed up. We're sorry. I promise to do my best from here on out. You will see a difference in the way I play/coach. But I'm human, there will still be some mistakes. I need your support.

"Our goals have not changed, we want to win you a championship. But we're going to need your help. Not just on Sunday, but all week. Monday to Sunday we need your support.

"Thank you."
 
thunderkyss said:
In all honesty, I want to see the team ask the fans for their support. I want Kubiak & Schaub especially to come out & say, "We screwed up. We're sorry. I promise to do my best from here on out. You will see a difference in the way I play/coach. But I'm human, there will still be some mistakes. I need your support.

"Our goals have not changed, we want to win you a championship. But we're going to need your help. Not just on Sunday, but all week. Monday to Sunday we need your support.

"Thank you."
Click to expand...

Appeal to the masses eh? Well, i guess if we're in fairy tale land, that might work for like a week...then after a really bad loss where the same issues crop up that have been plaguing this team, then what would he do? Start taking calls on the radio about starting line up changes? Taking advice from fans is the absolute worst thing he could do as the leader of this team.

As it is him starting Case Keenum proports to be the equivalent of a Hail Mary for this season.
 
Yeah, we don't pay you millions for you to publicly ask for support. Your pay check should be way more than enough. A coach should never have to do that and I'm sure that would be the last nail.
 
2012Champs said:
Starting Case would show a lack of leadership and folding to ignorant fan pressure. At best if you are a Case fan you would want to give him weeks of snaps with the 1st teamers in practice so if he starts it should be after the bye
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Or, it comes down to who Kubiak thinks give this team not just an opportunity to pull out a win, but provide a spark on offense. That choice is Yates or Keenum due to the injury. Yates got snaps on Sunday, give Keenum the snaps this week and make the call.

Seems pretty simple...for a leader.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Yeah, we don't pay you millions for you to publicly ask for support. Your pay check should be way more than enough. A coach should never have to do that and I'm sure that would be the last nail.
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I need to know they're playing for more than a paycheck.
 
Mr teX said:
Appeal to the masses eh? Well, i guess if we're in fairy tale land, that might work for like a week...then after a really bad loss where the same issues crop up that have been plaguing this team, then what would he do? Start taking calls on the radio about starting line up changes? Taking advice from fans is the absolute worst thing he could do as the leader of this team.

As it is him starting Case Keenum proports to be the equivalent of a Hail Mary for this season.
Click to expand...


I suspect the rest of the season will be Cases training camp, and yes, it is a hail Mary move.

Gotta know if we have to go all out for a qb in the next draft.

Our own version of "suck for Luck". But I honestly don't see anyone remotely resembling Luck being available.

Schaub will probably be ir'd the rest of the year. Then gone.



My :twocents: :coffee:
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Or, it comes down to who Kubiak thinks give this team not just an opportunity to pull out a win, but provide a spark on offense. That choice is Yates or Keenum due to the injury. Yates got snaps on Sunday, give Keenum the snaps this week and make the call.

Seems pretty simple...for a leader.
Click to expand...




A week of snaps for someone who has taken zero, that should be enough
 
IlliniJen said:
Leadership isn't just about supplying an emotional spark, it's about providing a psychological edge and getting your team ready to COMPETE every single week. Look at the mistakes (penalties) all over the field. And take a look at a long-running issue with the team not being ready to play in the first half of games. That's leadership...or rather...a lack of leadership. This coaching staff is just not getting their players to be mentally sharp.

Kubiak has a system, and he doesn't deviate from that system. At some point, predictability and complacency start to plague a system that isn't seeing success. I'm sure he probably approaches practices the same way every day, never questioning if something needs to be radically changed up because it's his "system," and he believes in it so thoroughly that he's blind to its glaring weaknesses.

You can see the inherent issues that Kubiak has with his placing faith in something and basically "setting it and forgetting it." It's not only his playcalling. Remember Richard Smith. Now Marciano. And Schaub. Kubiak has ZERO flexibility, zero adaptability. Good leaders are also creative leaders and leadership is not just about guidance, it's about contingency plans and getting out of jams. Thinking on one's feet.

Kubiak can't do any of that stuff. He. Has. His. System. The only reason he hasn't bronzed that damn Denny's menu of boring plays yet is that it would probably be too heavy to hold on the sidelines the whole game.

He needs to go. Go on, git.
Click to expand...

MSR...
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Just to be on the same page as you, how many snaps does one need to be enough? Has Yates had that amount of snaps this year?
Click to expand...


Im not sure how many Yates has but Id guess its more than zero. Also I said if you liked Case you would want him to get the two weeks worth of work before hand. If you throw him out in KC and his ass gets handed to him that could very well be his only chance in the NFL
 
thunderkyss said:
I need to know they're playing for more than a paycheck.
Click to expand...

I think that should be covered during the interview and coach's resume should show that. I get what you're saying but, it should never have to come to that, especially with the talent we have.
 
2012Champs said:
Im not sure how many Yates has but Id guess its more than zero. Also I said if you liked Case you would want him to get the two weeks worth of work before hand. If you throw him out in KC and his ass gets handed to him that could very well be his only chance in the NFL
Click to expand...

I saw Keenum in the preseason and his skillset seemed to be a better fit for this offense. His effort or potential earned him a spot on this team - decided by his coach, who some folks deem as a developer of QBs. The two QBs above Keenum on the depth chart are not capable of adding value to this offense based on injury and performance.

I really don't care about Keenum getting work, this is more than that- it is next man up. Yates knows what that means, just as Leinart did in 2011.

Put him in, and put it back on the other 52 guys to raise their game up. Unless Kubiak thinks his system, if executed properly, is the only thing that will get this team out of the funk.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I saw Keenum in the preseason and his skillset seemed to be a better fit for this offense. His effort or potential earned him a spot on this team - decided by his coach, who some folks deem as a developer of QBs. The two QBs above Keenum on the depth chart are not capable of adding value to this offense based on injury and performance.

I really don't care about Keenum getting work, this is more than that- it is next man up. Yates knows what that means, just as Leinart did in 2011.

Put him in, and put it back on the other 52 guys to raise their game up. Unless Kubiak thinks his system, if executed properly, is the only thing that will get this team out of the funk.
Click to expand...




Well that awesome preseason performance was only enough to earn him the #3 and it was the same QB coaching talents you speak of that put him #3, kept him there and put Yates in Sunday.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
What do you propose? And what results do you expect?
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If you think Case is the answer you let yates get the rough end of the stick sunday and you give Case two weeks to get ready. The results? Losses. Thats a typical outcome with 2nd and 3rd stringers coming is. See Yates record as a starter for recent history
 
In Kubiak's press conference yesterday, he was asked who would start this week and responded that he would see how Schaub was at the end of the week. I think that tells us everything. If Schaub is healthy, he starts. Kubes is just digging his own grave.
 
bigmck said:
In Kubiak's press conference yesterday, he was asked who would start this week and responded that he would see how Schaub was at the end of the week. I think that tells us everything. If Schaub is healthy, he starts. Kubes is just digging his own grave.
Click to expand...



or maybe it means even as a gimp Schaub is the best the Texans have
 
Keenum is the only QB on the team that has a legit chance to truly lead this team from the qb position. Keenum best case scenerio is he is a game savior that can run when needed and make good passes and decisions. Keenum worst case scenerio is unknown. Yates best case scenario is a game manager not making turnovers but we don't win. Yates worst case scenario is what we saw this past sunday. Schaub's best case scenario is he is a game manager that doesn't turnover the football but we don't win. Schaub's worst case scenerio is pick 6 and sacks all day long. In this situation you go with Keenum.
 
cstyle42 said:
Keenum is the only QB on the team that has a legit chance to truly lead this team from the qb position. Keenum best case scenerio is he is a game savior that can run when needed and make good passes and decisions. Keenum worst case scenerio is unknown. Yates best case scenario is a game manager not making turnovers but we don't win. Yates worst case scenario is what we saw this past sunday. Schaub's best case scenario is he is a game manager that doesn't turnover the football but we don't win. Schaub's worst case scenerio is pick 6 and sacks all day long. In this situation you go with Keenum.
Click to expand...

Again..............for the 300th time.................... what on earth could you possibly be basing the bolded statement on? What has he done in the NFL to keep making this statement? You guys keep saying this & you have 0 to hang your hat on....making it seem like this is Doug Flutie coming back to the NFL after winning all kinds of grey cups in the CFL.

His physical skill set? Ok, there are lots of guys in the NFL (& out of the NFL) with his skill set..some of them have even better skill sets...So what? It does not project them to be NFL quality starters.

Don't get me wrong, i would want nothing more than my fellow Coog to come in, take this team by the reigns & lead us to the playoffs & be the guy for the next 10 years. But it flies completely in the face of logic to say the bolded. There is nothing on his NFL resume to indicate that & you guys have to stop with the hyperbole.


It doesn't mean you don't give him a shot....

It doesn't mean that the potential isn't there.....

It doesn't mean that he can't become a quality NFL starter...
 
2012Champs said:
Well that awesome preseason performance was only enough to earn him the #3 and it was the same QB coaching talents you speak of that put him #3, kept him there and put Yates in Sunday.
Click to expand...

We all know the only reason Case was #3 is Kubiak has this ignorant regard for veteran seniority, and places more weight in how long someone has been around than in what they are able to do. If the contest was just who is the best QB, Case would have started from day one.
 
2012Champs said:
in the nfl? Oh wait you are talking about meaningless college stats
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Only data we have. He has never lost an NFL start. Your main argument is that Keenum should not start because Yates has a bad record as a starter. Brillant.

Or your backup argument that no one should start until they have had 3 weeks working with the starters. Since the only person who has worked with the starters before this week is injured I guess you want to punt on 1st down every time next week (which would cut down on the pick 6s but I'm not that confident about the coverage team).
 
kingtexan said:
Having the gift of sight ...
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yeah...well if your gift of sight was so grand, you'd "see" everything Case did in preseason was against alot of guys who are either sitting at home with us watching the games or are so far buried under the bench most of their own teams' fans don't even know they're still on the team.

i mean i get it...there are 2 sides to the potential thing here.

"A wise man sees as much as he ought, not as much as he can." crowd...

Then there's

"potential just means you haven't done anything" crowd...

But the latter usually happens far more often than than the former....
 
El Tejano said:
In the past 3 weeks I've seen two coaches, Pete Carroll and Jeff Fisher, rally their troops. Pete Carroll did it in the 4th quarter when he saw his team cut down a lead, and Fis
her did it when he smelled blood in the water and felt he could come out of the game with a win. Fisher probably thought to himself that his team was young enough to give up a lead so why not rally the troops and get everyone on the same mindset.

I have yet to see Kubiak do that this season when his team needed it the most.

Some may say 'you are screwed already if you have to rally the troops' but I think a coach has to rise to the occasion when he sees his team getting beat and not looking like they want to try.Talk about winning the game and how that's more important and that we still can win etc.... Instead we just see him looking mad on the sideline.


52465e24d45bd.preview-620.jpg
Click to expand...

Past 3 weeks? how about the past 8 years? I have seen coaches come into a new team, rally them into a frenzy and within a year or so, in the Super Bowl. Gary Kubiak hasn't been able to do that for 8 years now and he will never be able to do it.

Gary Kubiak has absolutely ZERO motivation skills.
 
Mr teX said:
Again..............for the 300th time.................... what on earth could you possibly be basing the bolded statement on? What has he done in the NFL to keep making this statement? You guys keep saying this & you have 0 to hang your hat on...

Don't get me wrong, i would want nothing more than my fellow Coog to come in, take this team by the reigns & lead us to the playoffs & be the guy for the next 10 years. But it flies completely in the face of logic to say the bolded. There is nothing on his NFL resume to indicate that & you guys have to stop with the hyperbole.


It doesn't mean you don't give him a shot....

It doesn't mean that the potential isn't there.....

It doesn't mean that he can't become a quality NFL starter...
Click to expand...

I agree that Keenum has done zero in the NFL. But the statement that he is the only one who can (possibly) do anything positive is 100% correct because we have seen the other guys play and we are certain they are worse than zero. Will Keenum ever be better than, say Christian Ponder? I doubt it, but he's the only person on the Texans roster with a chance of it (at least until Owen Daniels gets off IR).

And most people arguing against him ARE saying he should NEVER get a shot.
 
Mr teX said:
Again..............for the 300th time.................... what on earth could you possibly be basing the bolded statement on? What has he done in the NFL to keep making this statement? You guys keep saying this & you have 0 to hang your hat on....making it seem like this is Doug Flutie coming back to the NFL after winning all kinds of grey cups in the CFL.

His physical skill set? Ok, there are lots of guys in the NFL (& out of the NFL) with his skill set..some of them have even better skill sets...So what? It does not project them to be NFL quality starters.

Don't get me wrong, i would want nothing more than my fellow Coog to come in, take this team by the reigns & lead us to the playoffs & be the guy for the next 10 years. But it flies completely in the face of logic to say the bolded. There is nothing on his NFL resume to indicate that & you guys have to stop with the hyperbole.

Keenum's unknown is not a no. It's known Schaub and Yates cannot do it at this point. Therefore as of right now Keenum is the only one possible. Once he plays we will see. How did you know which qb's would be good, great or trash? They had to play whether if they were believed in or not. Keenum has shown greater potential than Schaub and Yates as quarterbacks this year for where the nfl is right now at that position.
Click to expand...
 
How can you possibly know that Yates can't win games? He was put in a horrible position last week with what was probably less than five first-string practice snaps. Both Case and Yates have earned a shot, whether Schaub was injured or not. Yates more so than Keenum at this point, in my opinion.
 
Fred said:
Only data we have. He has never lost an NFL start. Your main argument is that Keenum should not start because Yates has a bad record as a starter. Brillant.

Or your backup argument that no one should start until they have had 3 weeks working with the starters. Since the only person who has worked with the starters before this week is injured I guess you want to punt on 1st down every time next week (which would cut down on the pick 6s but I'm not that confident about the coverage team).
Click to expand...



My backup argument? What are you talking about? I said if you really like Case his best bet is the let TJ get smashed this weekend and take two full weeks to get ready. I never said you had to have the snaps but it certainly makes sense
 
Man, this is depressing.

Seeing fans argue about starting an untested 3rd string QB as our only hope to salvage a 2-4 season that is circling the drain inspires nothing positive in me.

Seriously, I hope for the best with Keenum, as well. But, let's be pragmatic about it. He's undrafted, practice squad, 3rd string for a reason.

And the weird thing is seeing Case supporters rip Kubiak. If you're honest about it, Kubiak is the ONLY reason Keenum has even the slightest chance to take a snap in the NFL. 31 team have passed on him for years. But, I'm sure if Case fails, it will be blamed on Kubiak, regardless of the fact that Kubiak is the only coach in the league that has any belief in him.

What an effed up paradox for a season that was supposed to start with high hopes.

At this point, I say start Keenum, just because it does feel that desperate right now. At least we can see what the kid is made of and get all the hopeful speculation to calm down in the face of actual game performance.

Heck, he can't do any worse than Schaub has been.
 
Double Barrel said:
Man, this is depressing.

Seeing fans argue about starting an untested 3rd string QB as our only hope to salvage a 2-4 season that is circling the drain inspires nothing positive in me.

Seriously, I hope for the best with Keenum, as well. But, let's be pragmatic about it. He's undrafted, practice squad, 3rd string for a reason.

And the weird thing is seeing Case supporters rip Kubiak. If you're honest about it, Kubiak is the ONLY reason Keenum has even the slightest chance to take a snap in the NFL. 31 team have passed on him for years. But, I'm sure if Case fails, it will be blamed on Kubiak, regardless of the fact that Kubiak is the only coach in the league that has any belief in him.

What an effed up paradox for a season that was supposed to start with high hopes.

At this point, I say start Keenum, just because it does feel that desperate right now. At least we can see what the kid is made of and get all the hopeful speculation to calm down in the face of actual game performance.

Heck, he can't do any worse than Schaub has been.
Click to expand...

Yeppers! Let's see, we have an immobile starter that's been Carr'd and has a bad wheel. A #2 who tries his darndest to emulate the starter. And a #3 who's never seen action during the regular season, but threw a dandy of a pass on 4th down during preseason.

Yup, give the #3 a shot. Holy moly. We should've given Lechler a shot the other day. At least he was dressed out.

Lol! I don't know why...but I still think we can win this Sunday.
 
2012Champs said:
Well that awesome preseason performance was only enough to earn him the #3 and it was the same QB coaching talents you speak of that put him #3, kept him there and put Yates in Sunday.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it couldn't have anything to do with one being drafted and the other being an UDFA. Nah, we've never had a skill position on Offense decided by that criteria...oh wait.
 
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