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Old 10-14-2013   #1
YeaLikeRightNow
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Default The Ugly Truth

After talking with some co-workers after the game, and again at work today; we've come up with this scenario:

The last few weeks, especially after the near-miss win over Tennessee, the heartbreak loss to Seattle and then the blowout at San Francisco...things had been changing on the Texans entire team. The real truth came out yesterday against the Rams.

The defense had been trying to tell the offense that if they could not score, or do anything but hand the opponents a win, then what's the use in busting our tails when we know we are going to lose.

This spread not only through the defense, but through special teams and some of the offense. It was quite obvious that the team was sick and tired of the debacle at the quarterback position.

We went from a QB dilemma the past few weeks to a total team meltdown the last two games. It's quite obvious that the team just doesn't "get holes in itself" all of a sudden. The loss seems to be a dedicated effort to go out there and go through the motions because nothing is going to change positively.

This is just mine and a few others opinions, and we may be totally wrong...but for some reason the passion of this team is gone.
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Old 10-14-2013   #2
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

I think for some players, the passion might be gone, but they are getting a hefty paycheck, so they probably won't be to noticeable about it. Besides, anyone actually finally making a position on an NFL team isn't going to risk their career by obviously slacking.

I think the big problem on the team is coaching leadership, or lack thereof. When that is fixed, the Texans most certainly have the talent to win games. They also need a QB as well.
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Old 10-14-2013   #3
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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Originally Posted by YeaLikeRightNow View Post

The defense had been trying to tell the offense that if they could not score, or do anything but hand the opponents a win, then what's the use in busting our tails when we know we are going to lose.
The ugly truth is if the defense would have not allowed a 90+ yard TD drive to the Seattle Seahawks we'd have won that game. If they'd have held them to a field goal on an 89 yard drive, we'd have won that game.

& they don't need to be btching about fans cheering when Schaub got hurt. They were thinking the same thing.
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Old 10-14-2013   #4
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

The offense and defense have been garbage at different times this season. It has coalesced into team suckage in SF and against STL.

This train is nearly derailed, but to blame it all on the offense ignores the 1 or more drives per game where the defense has basically given the opponent a TD. This team is sloppy and it reflects on the players and the coaching staff.
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Old 10-14-2013   #5
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

I had a 9 hour drive through the desert Southwest today, so I had plenty of time to think about this situation. I basically came to the conclusion that Kubiak is hubristic.

Reflecting back on seasons past, the teams play the last 10-12 games and Kubiak's own comments, I began to realize that Kubiak believes so much in his scheme that I'm beginning to wonder if the coaching staff even does a real game plan for opponents. If the team just executes better than the other team, the Texans will win. Period. Every play begins the same and the defense doesn't know if it's a run or a pass (yeah right) so how could it not work? The offense has that magical second or so before the defense figures it out and BAM!!!, big plays galore, blah-blah-blah.

That worked out great in 2010 thru 6 or 7 games last season. Defenses caught on. Play disciplined and don't bite on the play fake (which has been getting worse every year (Schaub was a master of it 2008-2011 but has been getting worse since his foot injury, coincidental or not). Defenses now are attacking Kubiak's offense by disassociating the front 5-7 from the secondary. The pass rush just goes balls out for Schaub, knowing they might give up a big play on a run or screen (those haven't been working very well either, for the most part) but if they can rattle Schaub (that means making him move) they stand a good chance to win the game and pad their stats. The secondary is playing tendencies. The offensive tendencies are so obvious that most of the members of this forum can call the play before the ball is hiked. Again, they may give up a big play, but they stand a better than even chance of making a big play.

Kubiak reportedly scripts the first 15 plays. Then he runs those same 15 plays, with 4 or 5 others, for the rest of the game. Sure, the formations are the same, run or pass, but if the defense sets the edge, gets any kind of penetration up front and play the tendencies on the back end, it's a recipe for success. Kubiak is the last coach in the world that will change what he's doing and call a different game. He believes so much in his system that he's incapable of change. Run the ball, PA passes, control the clock, rinse and repeat.

I just watched the 1st play of MNF Dolt's vs Bolts. Indy dials up a flea flicker. Kubiak probably called Dennison or Shanahan to find out what that is.

I had more to say, but that play totally distracted me.
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Old 10-14-2013   #6
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I had a 9 hour drive through the desert Southwest today, so I had plenty of time to think about this situation. I basically came to the conclusion that Kubiak is hubristic.

Reflecting back on seasons past, the teams play the last 10-12 games and Kubiak's own comments, I began to realize that Kubiak believes so much in his scheme that I'm beginning to wonder if the coaching staff even does a real game plan for opponents. If the team just executes better than the other team, the Texans will win. Period. Every play begins the same and the defense doesn't know if it's a run or a pass (yeah right) so how could it not work? The offense has that magical second or so before the defense figures it out and BAM!!!, big plays galore, blah-blah-blah.

That worked out great in 2010 thru 6 or 7 games last season. Defenses caught on. Play disciplined and don't bite on the play fake (which has been getting worse every year (Schaub was a master of it 2008-2011 but has been getting worse since his foot injury, coincidental or not). Defenses now are attacking Kubiak's offense by disassociating the front 5-7 from the secondary. The pass rush just goes balls out for Schaub, knowing they might give up a big play on a run or screen (those haven't been working very well either, for the most part) but if they can rattle Schaub (that means making him move) they stand a good chance to win the game and pad their stats. The secondary is playing tendencies. The offensive tendencies are so obvious that most of the members of this forum can call the play before the ball is hiked. Again, they may give up a big play, but they stand a better than even chance of making a big play.

Kubiak reportedly scripts the first 15 plays. Then he runs those same 15 plays, with 4 or 5 others, for the rest of the game. Sure, the formations are the same, run or pass, but if the defense sets the edge, gets any kind of penetration up front and play the tendencies on the back end, it's a recipe for success. Kubiak is the last coach in the world that will change what he's doing and call a different game. He believes so much in his system that he's incapable of change. Run the ball, PA passes, control the clock, rinse and repeat.

I just watched the 1st play of MNF Dolt's vs Bolts. Indy dials up a flea flicker. Kubiak probably called Dennison or Shanahan to find out what that is.

I had more to say, but that play totally distracted me.
The reason we were so good is because our O-line was one of the best in the league for a period. Not that they were the most talented, but because they were a perfect fit for what the system is trying to do. Alex Gibbs was here to architect the O-line, and he is no longer here to architect the o-line for the zone blocking scheme. Hell, we aren't even in play action mode much anymore. We were giving up sacks early in the season in play action. When that starts to happen in this style of offense, and with a Schaub at QB... disaster is looming.
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Old 10-14-2013   #7
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I had a 9 hour drive through the desert Southwest today, so I had plenty of time to think about this situation. I basically came to the conclusion that Kubiak is hubristic.

Reflecting back on seasons past, the teams play the last 10-12 games and Kubiak's own comments, I began to realize that Kubiak believes so much in his scheme that I'm beginning to wonder if the coaching staff even does a real game plan for opponents. If the team just executes better than the other team, the Texans will win. Period. Every play begins the same and the defense doesn't know if it's a run or a pass (yeah right) so how could it not work? The offense has that magical second or so before the defense figures it out and BAM!!!, big plays galore, blah-blah-blah.

That worked out great in 2010 thru 6 or 7 games last season. Defenses caught on. Play disciplined and don't bite on the play fake (which has been getting worse every year (Schaub was a master of it 2008-2011 but has been getting worse since his foot injury, coincidental or not). Defenses now are attacking Kubiak's offense by disassociating the front 5-7 from the secondary. The pass rush just goes balls out for Schaub, knowing they might give up a big play on a run or screen (those haven't been working very well either, for the most part) but if they can rattle Schaub (that means making him move) they stand a good chance to win the game and pad their stats. The secondary is playing tendencies. The offensive tendencies are so obvious that most of the members of this forum can call the play before the ball is hiked. Again, they may give up a big play, but they stand a better than even chance of making a big play.

Kubiak reportedly scripts the first 15 plays. Then he runs those same 15 plays, with 4 or 5 others, for the rest of the game. Sure, the formations are the same, run or pass, but if the defense sets the edge, gets any kind of penetration up front and play the tendencies on the back end, it's a recipe for success. Kubiak is the last coach in the world that will change what he's doing and call a different game. He believes so much in his system that he's incapable of change. Run the ball, PA passes, control the clock, rinse and repeat.

I just watched the 1st play of MNF Dolt's vs Bolts. Indy dials up a flea flicker. Kubiak probably called Dennison or Shanahan to find out what that is.

I had more to say, but that play totally distracted me.
Kubiak and Shanahan are firm believers in the system and that the system wins you games .

I think in todays NFL , you need a stud QB , good line play , and guys , in every facet , who can get you TDs .
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Old 10-14-2013   #8
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

Nothing like water cooler conspiracies to start the week! A team will take on the personality of its coach. Kubiak is cracking, so is his team. Kubiak just doesn't have the intangibles to be a good coach, better suited for OC.

To imply defenders áre tanking to send a message is invalid considering all the Pay/bonus clauses in their contracts. Pride and glory might be gone, but you know they want to get paid!
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Old 10-14-2013   #9
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
The reason we were so good is because our O-line was one of the best in the league for a period. Not that they were the most talented, but because they were a perfect fit for what the system is trying to do. Alex Gibbs was here to architect the O-line, and he is no longer here to architect the o-line for the zone blocking scheme. Hell, we aren't even in play action mode much anymore. We were giving up sacks early in the season in play action. When that starts to happen in this style of offense, and with a Schaub at QB... disaster is looming.
The offensive line was good to great...on the left side. Brisiel was a dang good RG. Winston was a train wreck of a RT. I'm not saying Newton is an upgrade, by any means, just that Winston was not the answer at RT for the Texans. He's a road grader in run blocking and a Sonic waitress on roller skates in pass pro.

Regardless, the changes on the OL strengthen my argument. Kubiak believes he can take JAG and make him a competent starter in the NFL. Regardless of position, Kubiak displays hubris in a lot of his personnel decisions, most obviously on offense. Kubiak reminds me of Casserly in this. Both seem to want to be known as geniuses that can make bold draft choices, or non-choices (passing on a higher rated player for a lesser talent) and having them succeed. That proves that the scheme trumps talent. I don't know how much of that falls on Kubiak and how much on Smith. Personally, I think Smith would be a fantastic GM if not joined at the hip with Kubiak. GM's and HC's being on the same page and working together is not the same as both being best buds and one maybe getting the job for the other. Smith might take a different tack with a HC he wasn't so close to, personally.
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Old 10-14-2013   #10
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Reflecting back on seasons past, the teams play the last 10-12 games and Kubiak's own comments, I began to realize that Kubiak believes so much in his scheme that I'm beginning to wonder if the coaching staff even does a real game plan for opponents. If the team just executes better than the other team, the Texans will win. Period. Every play begins the same and the defense doesn't know if it's a run or a pass (yeah right) so how could it not work? The offense has that magical second or so before the defense figures it out and BAM!!!, big plays galore, blah-blah-blah.
I respect your opinion, I respect everyone's opinion, but this is just off. It's not a system problem, it's not a play-calling problem.

First, Matt may be ultra conservative, but he's moving the team down the field. We don't stretch the field vertically, & unless we absolutely have to have a 3rd & long, he's going to ake the safest option & hope someone makes a play. That's on Matt, that's not a system/scheme problem. & honestly, if this defense doesn't start playing like the 2011 or early 2012 defense, where a short field for the other team won't hurt you... I don't blame him. Of course you won't play that way against the Saints, Patriots, Broncos, or Packer, but the Rams, Titans, 49ers.... if we turn it over on their 30 yard line, we should expect to not give up a single point on at least half of those. Not the case in 2013.

Secondly, the plays are there. Some of them pretty safe throws, but Matt's just not taking them. Remember that play early in the first Qtr that Matt slung it out to Greg Jones in the flat.... 3 yards, when we needed 12 I think. Andre found a sweet spot in their zone defense, on one around him for at least 5 yards in any direction. It was one of the few times I saw Andre dropped his head & walked (not run, not jog, but walked) back to the huddle. It took him so long to get to the huddle they were already breaking the huddle before he even got to it.

It's not the play-calling. It's not the system/scheme. It's the QB & if the coach hadn't jumped his sht about it yet, it's on the coach.
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Old 10-14-2013   #11
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I respect your opinion, I respect everyone's opinion, but this is just off. It's not a system problem, it's not a play-calling problem.

First, Matt may be ultra conservative, but he's moving the team down the field. We don't stretch the field vertically, & unless we absolutely have to have a 3rd & long, he's going to ake the safest option & hope someone makes a play. That's on Matt, that's not a system/scheme problem. & honestly, if this defense doesn't start playing like the 2011 or early 2012 defense, where a short field for the other team won't hurt you... I don't blame him. Of course you won't play that way against the Saints, Patriots, Broncos, or Packer, but the Rams, Titans, 49ers.... if we turn it over on their 30 yard line, we should expect to not give up a single point on at least half of those. Not the case in 2013.

Secondly, the plays are there. Some of them pretty safe throws, but Matt's just not taking them. Remember that play early in the first Qtr that Matt slung it out to Greg Jones in the flat.... 3 yards, when we needed 12 I think. Andre found a sweet spot in their zone defense, on one around him for at least 5 yards in any direction. It was one of the few times I saw Andre dropped his head & walked (not run, not jog, but walked) back to the huddle. It took him so long to get to the huddle they were already breaking the huddle before he even got to it.

It's not the play-calling. It's not the system/scheme. It's the QB & if the coach hadn't jumped his sht about it yet, it's on the coach.
So you've gone from being a Schaub-apologist to a Kubiak-apologist? The is strong with you, young Padwan.

BTW, how do you feel now about the team falling apart around Schaub? You said that the Rams game would be telling....Looked like dominos crossed with cards to me. Stuff was falling left and right, on both sides of the ball. Maybe it's Kubiak that has lost the team, not just Schaub. And I'm not interested at all in what the players say to the media.
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Old 10-14-2013   #12
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Nothing like water cooler conspiracies to start the week! A team will take on the personality of its coach. Kubiak is cracking, so is his team. Kubiak just doesn't have the intangibles to be a good coach, better suited for OC.

To imply defenders áre tanking to send a message is invalid considering all the Pay/bonus clauses in their contracts. Pride and glory might be gone, but you know they want to get paid!
The problems with the defense are
1. Earl Mitchell is a liabilty in the run game
2. There's not a stud pass rushing OLB on the defense.
3. With Reed/Manning out the S duo of Sweariger and Keo should bring back Stevens/Eric Brown days of horrific S play. Keo as a starter in the NFL?
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Old 10-14-2013   #13
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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The problems with the defense are
1. Earl Mitchell is a liabilty in the run game
2. There's not a stud pass rushing OLB on the defense.
3. With Reed/Manning out the S duo of Sweariger and Keo should bring back Stevens/Eric Brown days of horrific S play. Keo as a starter in the NFL?
Thanks for the nightmares! But hey statistically speaking we are a good defense and have so much potential! Kinda leads you to drink. Sad.
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Old 10-14-2013   #14
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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So you've gone from being a Schaub-apologist to a Kubiak-apologist? The is strong with you, young Padwan.
If we're going to criticize... I just want to help make sure our criticism is accurate. Schaub is David Carr 2.0 right now. People want to believe Carr was let go because he wasn't any good. The truth of the matter is that he didn't give us a chance to win. He wasn't stretching the field, he wasn't giving our play-makers an opportunity to make plays. Like Matt, his placement is horrible. I don't think David had any control of it. Matt says he does it on purpose, but right now the results about the same.

Quote:
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BTW, how do you feel now about the team falling apart around Schaub? You said that the Rams game would be telling....Looked like dominos crossed with cards to me. Stuff was falling left and right, on both sides of the ball. Maybe it's Kubiak that has lost the team, not just Schaub. And I'm not interested at all in what the players say to the media.
The offensive line & Arian played well yesterday. But like David, when we made a mistake, our QB didn't have the ability to overcome. A 5 yard penalty to this QB is devastating. A 10 or 15 yard penalty is insurmountable. We can't take a shot on 2nd & 9 because we'll be offschedule on third down if it's incomplete & we can't have that.

I still saw a lot of effort on offense, everyone running their routes hard. Not like 2006 with David Carr. So I don't think the offense gave up on Matt. However, a LB ran a INT back 98 yards & Tj was the only Texan around him. I've got to imagine they got an arse-chewing because Ryan Harris almost tackled the guy on the second INT in the endzone.

Defensively it's hard to say when Grady Wilson & Shilo Keo are your last lines of defense, but it looks like they have no idea what's going to happen after the snap. Completely unprepared like in 2010. On every down & distance, they should have some idea about what the other team wants to do & how they like to go about doing it. We had no clue. It's like they're guessing C on every question & hoping to get a passing grade. They are way too talented to get whup'd the way they got whup'd. From the stands I thought they gave up on someone, Gary, Matt, Bob, me.... but when I watched it the second time..... I think it's an inside job & someone's tired of being a DC.
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Old 10-14-2013   #15
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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The problems with the defense are
1. Earl Mitchell is a liabilty in the run game
2. There's not a stud pass rushing OLB on the defense.
3. With Reed/Manning out the S duo of Sweariger and Keo should bring back Stevens/Eric Brown days of horrific S play. Keo as a starter in the NFL?
I would like to add:
1. Slow LB 53 in coverage. Target him when you need anything
2. No DB's with skills to intercept. They don't look for ball.


On offense I think we are a slow team in general. Could be our scheme but I think we are just slow. Reminds me of a Big 10 team. Not RBs so much as WRs and TEs on a relative basis. So not only can't MS throw a long ball our receivers can't get separation. It seems to me a lot of our passes are caught with our receivers stationary are barely moving. No real chance to break a long play. DB's not so worried about getting beat deep so they sit on route. Reward (pick 6 or int) for them far out weights the risk ( an extra 10 or so yards).

So we methodically try to go down field and hope we have no negative plays or we are basically dead. It seems we face a lot of 3rd downs that we must convert on a drive to get points Leads to many more chances for mistake.
Basically no big plays on offense.

If we have a good drive say 7:30 minutes and stall in RZ and get 3 points and we do that a couple times, we have used one quarter and we have 6 points. The other team has a drive that consumes say 4:00 minutes and one that takes 6:00 minutes and they score a TD and they lead 7-6. If we turn the ball over at the end of one of those drives and get nothing or worse yet they return for a TD we could easily be down 14-3 . Basically what I am saying is we have to be really good for many plays to score while the other team can be lousy but get the big plays and beat us. We need to try and get the big play sometimes or just be able to run at will.( kind of like against Colts one year)
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Old 10-14-2013   #16
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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If we're going to criticize... I just want to help make sure our criticism is accurate. Schaub is David Carr 2.0 right now. People want to believe Carr was let go because he wasn't any good. The truth of the matter is that he didn't give us a chance to win. He wasn't stretching the field, he wasn't giving our play-makers an opportunity to make plays. Like Matt, his placement is horrible. I don't think David had any control of it. Matt says he does it on purpose, but right now the results about the same.



The offensive line & Arian played well yesterday. But like David, when we made a mistake, our QB didn't have the ability to overcome. A 5 yard penalty to this QB is devastating. A 10 or 15 yard penalty is insurmountable. We can't take a shot on 2nd & 9 because we'll be offschedule on third down if it's incomplete & we can't have that.

I still saw a lot of effort on offense, everyone running their routes hard. Not like 2006 with David Carr. So I don't think the offense gave up on Matt. However, a LB ran a INT back 98 yards & Tj was the only Texan around him. I've got to imagine they got an arse-chewing because Ryan Harris almost tackled the guy on the second INT in the endzone.
I know I've done a 180 & I'm being hyper critical of Schaub, but if Kubiak were to throw him out there against KC I'll be rooting for him. I've made a few David Carr references there, but I don't think he's that bad yet. I think Matt still has the ability to play at a high level & we saw a little bit of it at the end of the San Diego game, he gave Hopkins the opportunity to win the Tennessee game & he came out & tore the Legion of Boom apart in the first half. David Carr wouldn't have done any of that.

My biggest problem with Matt is that I know he can do it. Play at a high level. But he only does it when his back is against the wall. We need him to play like that all the time. From here on out, the rest of the season his back is against the wall. He can mope & whine thinking that he can't do anything to save his job here in Houston & that may very well be true. But if he thinks he can still play in this league, he needs to make a case for the teams who will be looking for a QB next season.
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Old 10-14-2013   #17
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If we're going to criticize... I just want to help make sure our criticism is accurate. Schaub is David Carr 2.0 right now. People want to believe Carr was let go because he wasn't any good. The truth of the matter is that he didn't give us a chance to win. He wasn't stretching the field, he wasn't giving our play-makers an opportunity to make plays. Like Matt, his placement is horrible. I don't think David had any control of it. Matt says he does it on purpose, but right now the results about the same.



The offensive line & Arian played well yesterday. But like David, when we made a mistake, our QB didn't have the ability to overcome. A 5 yard penalty to this QB is devastating. A 10 or 15 yard penalty is insurmountable. We can't take a shot on 2nd & 9 because we'll be offschedule on third down if it's incomplete & we can't have that.

I still saw a lot of effort on offense, everyone running their routes hard. Not like 2006 with David Carr. So I don't think the offense gave up on Matt. However, a LB ran a INT back 98 yards & Tj was the only Texan around him. I've got to imagine they got an arse-chewing because Ryan Harris almost tackled the guy on the second INT in the endzone.

Defensively it's hard to say when Grady Wilson & Shilo Keo are your last lines of defense, but it looks like they have no idea what's going to happen after the snap. Completely unprepared like in 2010. On every down & distance, they should have some idea about what the other team wants to do & how they like to go about doing it. We had no clue. It's like they're guessing C on every question & hoping to get a passing grade. They are way too talented to get whup'd the way they got whup'd. From the stands I thought they gave up on someone, Gary, Matt, Bob, me.... but when I watched it the second time..... I think it's an inside job & someone's tired of being a DC.
The OL run blocked well and pass pro'd like caca. Foster was a beast. The rest of your post agrees with me, especially the part about the DC being tired of being the DC.
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Old 10-14-2013   #18
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

Watching Luck right now. Heavy pressure and he runs for 7 yards. MS would have been sacked for 10 and drive over. Just one of the problems with MS and this years Texans. Just too big a hurdle to over come I think. Add in TO over problems he is having and you have big blowouts.
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Old 10-14-2013   #19
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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The OL run blocked well and pass pro'd like caca. Foster was a beast.
The protection was good enough yesterday. Three of the 5 sacks were because Schaub has poor pocket presence. A normal QB would have got out of the pocket just fine. I can think of at least one clean hit he took from a delayed free blitzer..... that's on him.
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Old 10-14-2013   #20
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Default Re: The Ugly Truth

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The protection was good enough yesterday. Three of the 5 sacks were because Schaub has poor pocket presence. A normal QB would have got out of the pocket just fine. I can think of at least one clean hit he took from a delayed free blitzer..... that's on him.
You gotta piss with the **** ya got and Schaub is our ****. Evidently, it wasn't good enough pass pro for that particular ****.

EDIT: **** stands for c0ck.
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