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Old 10-13-2013   #161
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
This game elevated Keenum's status.
actually I think this game moved schaub's status (because it showed TJ threw 2 int) up and kubiak's stock went down.
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Old 10-13-2013   #162
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
[/b]


The bolded needs to happen regardless of what case does....
What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.
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Old 10-13-2013   #163
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Default Re: In support of Case...

Not impressed by TJ. I would like to see Case.
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Old 10-13-2013   #164
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Default Re: In support of Case...

if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.
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Old 10-13-2013   #165
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.

Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.

I think we still have to think logically about this.

Otherwise, another point...all you fukers talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.
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Old 10-13-2013   #166
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.

That means it's in the playbook. That also means that there is at least some willingness to break from the same ol' same ol'. (At least there is that hope).

Having said that, you don't dip into the Keenum pool too deeply until the season is lost, numbers wise. At 2-4 it's still not.


We've seen spread formations from gary's playbook....matter fact, some people have said its when schaub has looked his best..but there's a reason for that...it's easier to read defenses in spread formations. But there's also a reason we dont run it them that often or unless we have to......its b/c we cant block anyone consistently, gary's conservative as hell and b/c it leaves your qb vulnerable. And even though Keenum is faster than every qb ahead of him, he's not running away from LB's or even some d-linemen like that....he couldnt do it in college consistently, what makes people think he's gonna be able to do it in the nfl consistently....the system in place will likely put him him the same situation tat Schaub and Yates were in..predictable playcalling and no discipline will do that.
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Old 10-13-2013   #167
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.
Agreed.

If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.
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Old 10-13-2013   #168
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
Agreed.

If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.
True that. By the time Schaub and Yates finish their checkdowns, the open receiver in the flat no longer has much room to run after the catch. Compare the Texans passes in the flat (short of first down yardage) to what the Rams did, or to what other teams have done. Most other teams have a lot more YAC than the Texans do, whose receivers are almost always immediately tackled. This is because the defense is seeing the play develop and has a couple seconds to close on the receiver before the ball is delivered. A decisive QB with a quick release could help that dink-dunk checkdown stuff actually work.
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Old 10-13-2013   #169
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.

I think we still have to think logically about this.

Otherwise, another point...all you fukers talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.
Matt Flynn is a product of a false evaluation. Hell, even Orlovsky beat the Texans when the game didn't mean anything. Its a different ballgame when there is actually pressure on the QB IMO. The Texans aren't a playoff contender. The sooner fans realize that the sooner we can understand that some crucial decisions need to be made moving forward.
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Old 10-13-2013   #170
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
We've seen spread formations from gary's playbook....matter fact, some people have said its when schaub has looked his best..but there's a reason for that...it's easier to read defenses in spread formations. But there's also a reason we dont run it them that often or unless we have to......its b/c we cant block anyone consistently, gary's conservative as hell and b/c it leaves your qb vulnerable. And even though Keenum is faster than every qb ahead of him, he's not running away from LB's or even some d-linemen like that....he couldnt do it in college consistently, what makes people think he's gonna be able to do it in the nfl consistently....the system in place will likely put him him the same situation tat Schaub and Yates were in..predictable playcalling and no discipline will do that.
Faster with his fee, but also faster with his release, which makes a big, BIG difference in how the spread is run. There's no way Schaub and/or Yates can run the spread like Case can.
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Old 10-13-2013   #171
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games!
Not if you are the 2011 Colts. You are Sucking for Luck.
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Old 10-13-2013   #172
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
Agreed.

If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.
Watch the games man, most of these ints and pick 6's are coming off 3 step drops by the qb.....meaning there isnt much "reading" that has to be done & the ball is coming out just about as fast as it can. So its not mattering how fast the ball is coming out...teams are sitting on the routes. Hell 3 of the pick 6's have come exclusively off out routes. They know its coming and they are driving hard on them.
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Old 10-13-2013   #173
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Default Re: In support of Case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.

I think we still have to think logically about this.

Otherwise, another point...all you fukers talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.
Pretty much the same player except I'd argue Case is more protective of the ball. Both 6'1", both 4.7 40' times, spread offense under Sumlin, not sure how people keep saying Keenum isn't the guy when they haven't seen him in a NFL regular season game.
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Old 10-13-2013   #174
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Watch the games man, most of these ints and pick 6's are coming off 3 step drops by the qb.....meaning there isnt much "reading" that has to be done & the ball is coming out just about as fast as it can. So its not mattering how fast the ball is coming out...teams are sitting on the routes. Hell3 of the pick 6's have come exclusively off out routes. They know its coming and they are driving hard on them.
I am watching the games, 3 step drop and Matt DOES NOT get rid of the ball.

1
2
3.........deliver.

It can't be like that on short routes.

It has to be

1
2
3. Deliver

Matt does not do this. How can you sit on a 5 yard pass play and INT it UNLESS the QB is hesitating? It's nearly impossible to get that ball if the QB is releasing it on time and zipping it to the WR unless the WRs tips it up into the air himself.

Look at the Bradford TD. He read the defense before throwing it to his WR. He saw Kareem was giving his man a cushion (for whatever reason) and delivered the ball right away to his man for a easy TD. If he hesitates one second Kareem likely realizes what's going on and makes a play on the ball.

Besides the INTs this game were completely on the QB. One throws into double coverage after staring down his man the whole way...the other he just throws right to the guy.
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Old 10-13-2013   #175
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Default Re: In support of Case...

I would like to make a "Case" to bring in Brett Farve or Kurt warner
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Old 10-13-2013   #176
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
I am watching the games, 3 step drop and Matt DOES NOT get rid of the ball.

1
2
3.........deliver.

It can't be like that on short routes.

It has to be

1
2
3. Deliver

Matt does not do this. How can you sit on a 5 yard pass play and INT it UNLESS the QB is hesitating? It's nearly impossible to get that ball if the QB is releasing it on time and zipping it to the WR unless the WRs tips it up into the air himself.

Look at the Bradford TD. He read the defense before throwing it to his WR. He saw Kareem was giving his man a cushion (for whatever reason) and delivered the ball right away to his man for a easy TD. If he hesitates one second Kareem likely realizes what's going on and makes a play on the ball.

Besides the INTs this game were completely on the QB. One throws into double coverage after staring down his man the whole way...the other he just throws right to the guy.

You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...

Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.
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Old 10-13-2013   #177
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...

Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.
You also sit on it and know it's coming when the QB is staring his man down as if he stole something and then waiting an extra second or two to give him the ball.

The Patriots and Saints also dink and dunk down the field, but they do not have this problem with pick sixes because their QBs get rid of the ball and beyond that spread it around and don't lock onto receivers.

Matt and Yates have been doing this.

Matt can't throw deep accurately...and now he can't throw short accurately...so what else is Kubiak supposed to call? Both of Yates INTs were not on any system, just on him making poor decisions.

Also cover 2 still doesn't mean you can cover short routes, they are pretty much uncoverable if the offense executes them (which is why the Pats utilize them so often) the only way Andre gets picked off in that 9ers game is because of hesitation and lack of zip to the ball. Even if the defense sees it coming you can't react to something so fast. Just like how Bradford threw that easy TD. If he zips it in the right place and on time then there is nothing that can't be done.
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Old 10-13-2013   #178
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...

Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.
dont help the QB is staring down who he's going to even before the ball is snapped
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Old 10-13-2013   #179
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dont help the QB is staring down who he's going to even before the ball is snapped
Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.

I say all that to say its nearly impossible notto stare down your only read on such quick plays. Every single qb in the league does that on those type of throws...

The difference with us versus other offenses....besides the obvious that is....is that teams arent sitting on their 3 step drop stuff like they're doing us b/c they hit em with other things to scare them off of doing that.

Think of a boxer and the use of his jab....they're extremely effective when u mix them in well with other punch types b/c the opponent can't hone in on them for fear of catching a power punch.....but when all you do is throw jabs and very little of anything else......you can guess might what happen.
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Old 10-13-2013   #180
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.

I say all that to say its nearly impossible notto stare down your only read on such quick plays. Every single qb in the league does that on those type of throws...

The difference with us versus other offenses....besides the obvious that is....is that teams arent sitting on their 3 step drop stuff like they're doing us...
Seen many manning 3 step drops where he looks off coverage, same with rogers
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