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Old 12-05-2013   #581
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by dtran04 View Post
So would you take a very good but not elite QB over an elite DE?

As an exercise, would you take someone like a Matt Ryan/Jay Cutler over a JJ Watt/Julius Peppers?
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How about this one - how many DLmen are there in the league right now who teams would significantly downgrade (defined as there wouldn't be any real debate that it is a downgrade) their QB to get (full careers on both players)?

That involves the full equation - a team willing to move from a QB there is no argument is better than Jay Cutler to Jay Cutler to get JJ Watt.
If there were a players value chart, there is not but assume there is one. What would Peyton Manning's or Tom Brady's value be? And what would JJ Watt's value be? How far down the QB value chart would you've to go to equal JJ Watt's value?
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Old 12-05-2013   #582
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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If there were a players value chart, there is not but assume there is one. What would Peyton Manning's or Tom Brady's value be? And what would JJ Watt's value be? How far down the QB value chart would you've to go to equal JJ Watt's value?
Keep it simple - would you go from any of the current SB winning QBs down to Jay Cutler for JJ Watt?

Flacco, Eli, Big Ben, Manning, Brady, Rogers, Brees.

Really I think the more important version would be any team do it but either way.
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Old 12-13-2013   #583
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
How about this one - how many DLmen are there in the league right now who teams would significantly downgrade (defined as there wouldn't be any real debate that it is a downgrade) their QB to get (full careers on both players)?

That involves the full equation - a team willing to move from a QB there is no argument is better than Jay Cutler to Jay Cutler to get JJ Watt.
That's robbing Peter to pay Paul if you think a stud defensive player is a requirement to win a SB .. IMO .
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Old 12-14-2013   #584
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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creepy how you and i have been on the same page as of late. I believe Bridgewater is the best qb prospect, but i can see why folks might be hesistant to take him 1st overall....Especially with a Jevon Kearse like prospect in Clowney sitting right there. I like Mettenberger alot more than most on here as well so the bolded is the best case scenario in my mind...you could maybe interchange mettenberger out with Bortles or Murray & i'd be ok with that as well.
More like an Albert Haynesworth like prospect. One hit on a Michigan running back has warped people's opinions of him. Guy takes plays off and makes poor decisions. Leave him alone.
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Old 12-14-2013   #585
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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More like an Albert Haynesworth like prospect. One hit on a Michigan running back has warped people's opinions of him. Guy takes plays off and makes poor decisions. Leave him alone.
That's probably a good comparison ....
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Old 12-14-2013   #586
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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More like an Albert Haynesworth like prospect. One hit on a Michigan running back has warped people's opinions of him. Guy takes plays off and makes poor decisions. Leave him alone.
Yeah if we go pass rusher, give me Barr. high motor guy has done us well
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Old 12-14-2013   #587
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

I wish to repeat what I said in another thread. Trade down, pick up extra high draft choices and still get our guy. My target it Matthews or Barr, but I think we can still get them AND get extra picks because of the drooling over Clowney and Bridgewater coupled with numerous teams competing for QBs.

Imagine trading down to 2 plus our 2nd rounder while picking up Rams 12th pick so they can get Clowney. Then trading down with Minnesota and picking up their second and fourth so they can bet Bridgewater. Atlanta picks up either Barr or Matthews and we still get the other one and now we get a 12th and only move down 3 in the second to use on perhaps Manziel or a premium NT like Nix.

Comments welcome.
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Old 12-14-2013   #588
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
I wish to repeat what I said in another thread. Trade down, pick up extra high draft choices and still get our guy. My target it Matthews or Barr, but I think we can still get them AND get extra picks because of the drooling over Clowney and Bridgewater coupled with numerous teams competing for QBs.

Imagine trading down to 2 plus our 2nd rounder while picking up Rams 12th pick so they can get Clowney. Then trading down with Minnesota and picking up their second and fourth so they can bet Bridgewater. Atlanta picks up either Barr or Matthews and we still get the other one and now we get a 12th and only move down 3 in the second to use on perhaps Manziel or a premium NT like Nix.

Comments welcome.
Trading down is something most would like to do but few find that oh so elusive trading partner that's willing
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Old 12-14-2013   #589
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Trading down is something most would like to do but few find that oh so elusive trading partner that's willing
^^^
THIS

unless you have Andrew Luck but wait, the Colts do, right after Peyton, must be rough? so Texans, we must be vigil, remain patient (not like it already doesn't seem like an eternity) get our coach then put it all together.

we must pick with quiet abandon. personally I would like it if Wade Phillips was given a one year contract to be head coach & complete his defense (worst case). I think Barr would be his choice, OLB with elite pass rush skills. I would love to know what transpired in war room last draft but we'll never know. Ogletree was there for taking, then we would not be having this discussion, but at least now we know there must be a QB change
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Old 12-15-2013   #590
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
I wish to repeat what I said in another thread. Trade down, pick up extra high draft choices and still get our guy. My target it Matthews or Barr, but I think we can still get them AND get extra picks because of the drooling over Clowney and Bridgewater coupled with numerous teams competing for QBs.

Imagine trading down to 2 plus our 2nd rounder while picking up Rams 12th pick so they can get Clowney. Then trading down with Minnesota and picking up their second and fourth so they can bet Bridgewater. Atlanta picks up either Barr or Matthews and we still get the other one and now we get a 12th and only move down 3 in the second to use on perhaps Manziel or a premium NT like Nix.

Comments welcome.
I am definitely looking for trades but could you clarify yours a bit? First we trade down one spot to #2 giving our second or ?

so Rams can go Clowney? 3 main sources I use for reference have Rams taking Barr, Matthews and (Walters) Matthews with this note "but the Rams will almost certainly be trading out of the top three if they obtain a pick in that spot. They're likely to roll with Sam Bradford with another season, and they have no need for a defensive end, so they may once again slide down, swapping picks with a team wanting to move up for a franchise signal-caller or Jadeveon Clowney. In this case, it's the latter. "
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Old 12-15-2013   #591
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

With all the injuries we had on D side, I really like for the Texans to bulk more players especially front 7. I hope we can find a suitable trading partner to obtain more picks. With an extra pick(multiple picks would be better but, it all depends on a trading partner), we can use that pick for RT prospect or BPA as well. I am not really sold on QB prospects in 2014 draft to use our top pick (perhaps in later round yes but, not our top pick).
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Old 12-15-2013   #592
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by SAMURAITEXAN View Post
With all the injuries we had on D side, I really like for the Texans to bulk more players especially front 7. I hope we can find a suitable trading partner to obtain more picks. With an extra pick(multiple picks would be better but, it all depends on a trading partner), we can use that pick for RT prospect or BPA as well. I am not really sold on QB prospects in 2014 draft to use our top pick (perhaps in later round yes but, not our top pick).
I'm usually a sucker for a trade down... This year, assuming there is not the clear stud QB (I think Bridgewater may be it), I absolutely love the trade down.

In 2006, nobody wanted the 1st pick because of the amount of money attached to it. Now, it is a bargain and should hold good value for a number of teams, even if there isn't a consensus number one pick. For the Texans, the opportunity to trade down and still grab a high quality RT (or G-the dude from Baylor, for instance), also grab a very good CB, and still get a solid QB prospect or two (Murray, Metternburger, Boyd, etc...) is awfully appealing.

We are likely already set up for two or three compensatory picks between rounds 4 and 6... For those of you wanting this team blown up, a trade down would likely result in the Texans have 10 or more picks in the first 5 rounds or so... That would go a long ways to getting the heavy personnel turnover you'll are wanting.
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Old 12-15-2013   #593
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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I'm usually a sucker for a trade down... This year, assuming there is not the clear stud QB (I think Bridgewater may be it), I absolutely love the trade down.

In 2006, nobody wanted the 1st pick because of the amount of money attached to it. Now, it is a bargain and should hold good value for a number of teams, even if there isn't a consensus number one pick. For the Texans, the opportunity to trade down and still grab a high quality RT (or G-the dude from Baylor, for instance), also grab a very good CB, and still get a solid QB prospect or two (Murray, Metternburger, Boyd, etc...) is awfully appealing.

We are likely already set up for two or three compensatory picks between rounds 4 and 6... For those of you wanting this team blown up, a trade down would likely result in the Texans have 10 or more picks in the first 5 rounds or so... That would go a long ways to getting the heavy personnel turnover you'll are wanting.
True, and this is what I hope happens.

But do you trust Rick to make the correct picks to help rebuild the talent level the team is currently missing?

I dont, but being a Texans fan I have to hope that I'm wrong.
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Old 12-15-2013   #594
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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True, and this is what I hope happens.

But do you trust Rick to make the correct picks to help rebuild the talent level the team is currently missing?

I dont, but being a Texans fan I have to hope that I'm wrong.
Rick has proven a good mirror to his coaches needs/request just hope the next coaches R more spot on & remedy for what ales
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Old 12-15-2013   #595
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

I am glad some of us seeing trade down may be the way to go.

dale, I completely agree with you. If we can add some more talents on this team, we will have a chance to be solid for years to come.

steelb, I think it will depends on who we hire as our new HC and his scheme. It seems like Rick may get more say in drafting players but if HC with demanding personality, he can influence Rick to pick what new HC likes I think.
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Old 12-15-2013   #596
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Default Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

Take BPA. Right now, that's either Bridgewater or Clowney. I'm fine w either. Ideally I'd like Clowney at 1/1 and whichever QB falls at 2/1.

We all have our guy and that's fine if you disagree. We all see what we want to see.
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Old 12-15-2013   #597
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Take BPA. Right now, that's either Bridgewater or Clowney. I'm fine w either. Ideally I'd like Clowney at 1/1 and whichever QB falls at 2/1.

We all have our guy and that's fine if you disagree. We all see what we want to see.

Normally I would agree with you, but I think Brigdewater is the only qb in this draft with a chance to be a franchise type qb.


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Old 12-15-2013   #598
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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True, and this is what I hope happens.

But do you trust Rick to make the correct picks to help rebuild the talent level the team is currently missing?

I dont, but being a Texans fan I have to hope that I'm wrong.
Hard to put much faith in anyone within the organization after this unmitigated disaster. Still, it is difficult to argue with Rick's 1st round record. Other than the Amobi Okoye mistake in year one, He has been great in the first round. I would say that nobody has been better in the NFL over that span of time with their first selection (DBrown, Cushing, KJ, Watt, Hopkins)...

I also have liked his trade downs throughout the years. I think a lot of his success/failure will depend on how well he can work with and understand the new head coach's system and what he wants and needs. Regardless of how an organization designs the power structure, I think that relationship is always an undervalued aspect of the GM's ability to succeed on draft day.

So, I am optimistic... then again, I tend that direction anyway. The great thing about the trade down is the opportunity to fire more bullets at the same target.
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Old 12-15-2013   #599
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Hard to put much faith in anyone within the organization after this unmitigated disaster. Still, it is difficult to argue with Rick's 1st round record. Other than the Amobi Okoye mistake in year one, He has been great in the first round. I would say that nobody has been better in the NFL over that span of time with their first selection (DBrown, Cushing, KJ, Watt, Hopkins)...

I also have liked his trade downs throughout the years. I think a lot of his success/failure will depend on how well he can work with and understand the new head coach's system and what he wants and needs. Regardless of how an organization designs the power structure, I think that relationship is always an undervalued aspect of the GM's ability to succeed on draft day.

So, I am optimistic... then again, I tend that direction anyway. The great thing about the trade down is the opportunity to fire more bullets at the same target.
I really agree with this post and like your optimistic views. I'm usually quite the opposite when it comes to this regime. The draft consists of more than just the 1st rd. This is where Rick has failed. Exhibit A, the 2013 draft.
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Old 12-15-2013   #600
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Take BPA. Right now, that's either Bridgewater or Clowney. I'm fine w either. Ideally I'd like Clowney at 1/1 and whichever QB falls at 2/1.

We all have our guy and that's fine if you disagree. We all see what we want to see.
I think the biggest question the Texans will have to answer is how they attack the depth at QB in the draft this year. There will be 8-10 QBs in this draft that quality NFL scouts will score high enough to be a future starter of a quality NFL team. Those mock drafts that they run through in February and March will be key. If they have Mettenburger, Boyd, Murray, Carr, Hundley, etc... rated closely together, do they consider taking a tackle, CB, DL early and then either target one of them specifically in round two... or, allow the board to fall and grab the QB left in round 2 or 3 of a group that they like... Or, do they sit back and allow the 5 or 6 teams determined to grab a QB to fulfill their need, and grab two of the guys on their list as they slide into the middle rounds?... It will be interesting. A lot of variables to work through.

Perhaps all of these QBs are flawed, but I don't recall a draft with so many potential NFL-caliber QBs... I'm torn myself. Should they simply take Bridgewater? Or, should they trade down, collect the best on their board for 4 or 5 picks and then still grab two QBs in the middle rounds that have high ceilings and let them both compete with Keenum and develop in 2014? Not sure.
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