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Old 10-03-2013   #181
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Watched the play again from the all 22. They also broke down the play they ran vs titans. It was a good play call,but a piss poor decision by schaub.
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Old 10-03-2013   #182
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Come On Breh View Post
how in the world can you have a QB who cant audilbe in year 2013 in the NFL?

That's like an nba franchise who doesnt believe in analytics. You are at a distinct disadvantage strategy wise.
Its been discussed dozens of times before on these forums , so many I wonder how this thread got so long , many times that Schaub does have the ability to change a play at the line but that those audibles are set - he can change from a pass to a predetermined run play or from a run to a predetermined pass play.

Kubiak taking the heat for that play is nothing more than deflecting the heat off of the QB and onto the coach.

Bottom line , Schaub should have either taken the sack or thrown the ball out away yet he chose the worst option , throwing a fluttering duck where a defender had a chance to at it and got the worst possible result.
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Old 10-03-2013   #183
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Come On Breh View Post
Kubiak's audibles have play restrictions on them and it is seldom used.

How can you even sit there with a straight face and even consider that an audible?

That's like saying im giving my daughter freedom to date but i have to be there with you when you date.

that's what you call fake freedom.
Point blank , he has the ability to change the play when he sees a defense that isn't favorable to what's been called.


It really doesn't matter either .... sumb!tch never shoulda thrown that ball. Eat the sack and live to play another down. Everybody & their dog understands the simplicity of it.
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Old 10-03-2013   #184
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Come On Breh View Post
well yea, if you want to be literal about it, sure its an audible.

but philosophically speaking, its not. Audibles shoudlnt have restrictions on it.

It really defeats the purpose of it.
you hear the word audible and picture peyton manning. go back and re-read this thread, and then listen to clips of sage rosenfels talking about kubiaks' system, and then go research the west coast offense. this is not a pre-snap "ok you go there, and you go there, and you do this" offense. it's not one where the quarterback draws something up in the dirt or they get to the line and look to the sideline like chip kelly's failing college scheme.

the audibles are built into the play itself, with an option to check into another such play before the snap. once schaub begins his cadence and sends a man in motion, the play is set and that's what gets run. there's no "let's make something up" option. it's done this way for a reason. we run many variations from very few formations each game, all designed to look the same with different results. you cant start moving players around and changing as you go pre-snap.

kubiak is falling on the sword for schaub because schaub didnt check out of the play because he missed the defensive alignment, and/or failed to do his job as a veteran of executing the play as called. in this case meaning take the sack or throw it away.
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Old 10-03-2013   #185
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
you hear the word audible and picture peyton manning. go back and re-read this thread, and then listen to clips of sage rosenfels talking about kubiaks' system, and then go research the west coast offense. this is not a pre-snap "ok you go there, and you go there, and you do this" offense. it's not one where the quarterback draws something up in the dirt or they get to the line and look to the sideline like chip kelly's failing college scheme.

the audibles are built into the play itself, with an option to check into another such play before the snap. once schaub begins his cadence and sends a man in motion, the play is set and that's what gets run. there's no "let's make something up" option. it's done this way for a reason. we run many variations from very few formations each game, all designed to look the same with different results. you cant start moving players around and changing as you go pre-snap.

kubiak is falling on the sword for schaub because schaub didnt check out of the play because he missed the defensive alignment, and/or failed to do his job as a veteran of executing the play as called. in this case meaning take the sack or throw it away.
Someone has had this conversation before .....
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Old 10-03-2013   #186
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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If yardage only won you superbowls
We're top 10 in points as well. It's just a matter of when we score those points & against who.
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Old 10-03-2013   #187
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by mridge01 View Post
In the huddle, Foster should have demanded Schaub change the play to a running play. Big time players should demand the ball in game time situations.
That's it.

Yeah... lets go with that. When Schaub faked the handoff, Arian should have just grabbed the ball & ran with it.
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Old 10-03-2013   #188
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Bottom line , Schaub should have either taken the sack or thrown the ball out away yet he chose the worst option , throwing a fluttering duck where a defender had a chance to at it and got the worst possible result.
I don't think Schaub should have thrown the ball.... at least not like he threw it. He had a guy in his face & he panicked. Hard to see, but it looked like Andre was behind the defense. If he would have tossed it over Andre's head, he'd look like a hero now.

That said, the defender had no play what-so-ever on that ball without running through Owen Daniels.... again same thing happened against Baltimore.
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Old 10-03-2013   #189
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Here's a WCO playbook.
There's a section on audibles if any one is interested in.

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/c...tcoast/wco.pdf
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Old 10-03-2013   #190
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Here's a look at how Joe Montana operated the audibles.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...ilson-audibles

A few things to note:

It mentioned a run that Montana checked into a slant.
That's the built-in audible of the WCO that we've been talking about.

It's not free-lancing where Montana will call any play that he wants.
Each week, he and the coaches would go over a plan where they pick out a few plays that Montana can audible to, if and only if he sees certain defensive formation.
This, we're not sure whether the Texans are doing with Schaub or not.
The times we saw "miscommunication" between Schaub and the receivers/TEs, were possibilities of audibles.

....

Another aspect of Kubiak's WCO that I've discussed before is the liberal use of "motion" and "multi-formations". The Texans do this a whole lot more than the Broncos (when Kubiak was their OC).

"Motion" is another built-in audible.
When we talk about "multi-formations", it means that the Texans had more plays that they plan for a particular week than their opponents.
This reduces the "need" to call a "real" audible.
When players need to remember their assignment on so many plays already, as a coach, you don't want to further complicate the game plan.

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Old 10-03-2013   #191
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Come On Breh View Post
sorry, not gonna listen to another back up quarterback.
Well, when you get to be as knowledgeable about their system as a practice squad player, we'll start listening to you.
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Old 10-03-2013   #192
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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The QB needs to have some semblance of intelligence. Think Sanchez fails at that.
Agreed. But on the other hand, Mark Sanchez has shown what he can do with a strong run game and defense around him. The Jets reached two straight AFC Championship games with him starting at quarterback. It wasn't until the Jets started losing hall of fame caliber talent like LaDainian Tomlinson and Kris Jenkins, even Darrelle Revis (injured and traded), that we started to see Mark Sanchez's game fall apart. He no longer could hide his flaws behind one of the best run games and defenses in the league.

The 2013 Texans, as of now, have the 1st ranked defense and the 5th ranked offense in the entire NFL. Not to mention tons of talent on both sides of the ball, which includes a strong 1-2 punch in the run game with Arian Foster and Ben Tate.

I think we compare quite favorably to those New York Jets teams that reached two straight AFC Championship games. We may not have a total beast of a nose tackle like three-time All Pro Kris Jenkins, as Earl Mitchell is just an average nose tackle at best. But J.J. Watt, arguably the best defensive lineman in the NFL since Bruce Smith, makes up for that.

Rex Ryan didn't have to do anything other than keep Mark Sanchez in check and limit his interceptions. Rex Ryan would have ran the ball and trusted his defense to win games when the situation warranted it. Which is what Kubiak should have done in that last game against the Seahawks. I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss, one in which we dominated all of the statistics, any day of the week.

If you put Mark Sanchez on the Texans and Matt Schaub on the Jets. One would thrive and likely reach the AFC Championship game and maybe even Super Bowl. The other one would get himself injured and likely benched by a rookie. This has nothing to do with audibles. But rather trusting your run game and defense to take you to the promise land.
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Old 10-03-2013   #193
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I don't think Schaub should have thrown the ball.... at least not like he threw it. He had a guy in his face & he panicked. Hard to see, but it looked like Andre was behind the defense. If he would have tossed it over Andre's head, he'd look like a hero now.

That said, the defender had no play what-so-ever on that ball without running through Owen Daniels.... again same thing happened against Baltimore.
Gary Kubiak regrets even calling a pass play in the first place. You can tell by his interviews he called the wrong play and if he had it over to do again he'd have called for a run. Hopefully that loss against Seattle doesn't come back to bite us at the end of the year. If we end up coming one game short of homefield advantage, or even winning the AFC South. That one game could even be the difference in us making the playoffs or missing the playoffs as a potential wild-card team. A lot of good teams in the AFC right now.
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Old 10-03-2013   #194
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade View Post
Gary Kubiak regrets even calling a pass play in the first place. You can tell by his interviews he called the wrong play and if he had it over to do again he'd have called for a run. Hopefully that loss against Seattle doesn't come back to bite us at the end of the year. If we end up coming one game short of homefield advantage, or even winning the AFC South. That one game could even be the difference in us making the playoffs or missing the playoffs as a potential wild-card team. A lot of good teams in the AFC right now.
Schaub can, and should have checked into a run strong side left on that play.
It's a built-in mechanism in the WCO.

Both the run and the pass were available on that play.
The original call was a bootleg, but Schaub had the authority to check into a run play out of that formation.

That's what it means by "play design".
It was designed to be a bootleg to the right with the option for Schaub to check into a run play; in this case, a run strong side to the left should have the best chance to succeed where the Texans had the number in blocking, with the blitz coming from the opposite side.

If Schaub choose to stay with the pass call; it's on him to make the best of the situation.
A run fake like this is designed to fool the weak side LB.
If he advances (which he did), he would leave a void behind him as Graham cut across the field from the other side; that's where Schaub had the best chance throwing the ball. It should be automatic as the QB turns around and saw that the weak side backer bought the run fake.

Failing that, Schaub should realize that a throw to the inside is optimum for OD since Sherman played to the outside all the way.

Schaub committed a triple error there; he did everything wrong, including just throw the ball away or take a sack.

It was stupidity beyond all stupidities; it's not acceptable for a ten-yr veteran.
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Old 10-03-2013   #195
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade View Post
The 2013 Texans, as of now, have the 1st ranked defense and the 5th ranked offense in the entire NFL.
Just a small deal in regards to this - ranking high in either offense or defense by yards is not a sign of a great team. You would think that if a team could do the "impossible" of having the #1 ranked offense and #1 ranked defense they would be impossible to beat right?

2010 Chargers
#1 ranked offense & #1 ranked defense
Record: 9-7 (missed playoffs)

My only point of bring this up is that sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. If Schaub hadn't throw any interceptions this year, we might be 4-0 or 3-1. If the team didn't have a bunch of penalties in Baltimore we might have won. Offense and defense rankings (along with power rankings) are for teams with low expectations or that are looking for a silver lining. The Texans are at least in the AFC championship game or bust mode. The only stats that count are W-L and playoff seeding. Everything else is garbage.

Other than that I'm right there with you BoP.
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Old 10-03-2013   #196
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Man, I've been tough on Schaub as a player...but I hope he succeeds. I hope he wins the Super Bowl this season. Not for me as a fan...but for him. People are really being tough on him and getting personal. I don't like that.

I hope Schaub comes out and picks teams apart for the rest of this season and tells everyone to F off. One thing that separates him from Carr besides the obvious things is that the guy shows up, works and takes it.

I don't think he's all that great a qb, but I respect that. I'd tell him that to his face. Not a huge fan of some if the on field things you do, but much respect for being or seemingly being a stand up guy. That's like one of the traits I admire most. Show up work and take the good with the bad like a man.
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Old 10-03-2013   #197
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Well said, Rey. Two things that are less than honorable in this whole thing, IMO. Making it personal against the man, and rooting for him to fail and team to lose for some wishful draft pick.

I was not happy with his performance, like the majority of Texans fans. I even said some stuff based on that perspective because there was still the lingering aggravation on Sunday and Monday...and probably Tuesday.

But now it's all about Sunday night and wanting him to succeed as our starting QB. Kubiak is not going to bench him. That is just delusional thinking without any sort of objectivity involved. So it's a given that he's our QB right now, so hope for the best and never give up hope as a fan.
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Old 10-03-2013   #198
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Sage Rosenfels said yesterday that the lack of ability to audible is part and parcel of the west coast offense run by Kubiak. It's not just Schaub. Any QB Gary puts into this system is going to have the same limits. It's designed to be simple, and make the QB react quicker by not giving him as many things to read. You basically have a main option, and one check down option. That's it folks.

Anyone else starting to hate Kubiak and his west coast offense? I think at one time it was brilliant. That time was 1983.

We need a new direction, and Gary is too tied to his system imo.
We weren't out of time outs were we?

That's always an option.

Man in motion or not, we hadn't snapped the ball. IF Schaub saw the play coming once the guy went in motion and he saw this play would end badly; call time out.
How hard would that be?
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Old 10-03-2013   #199
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Man, I've been tough on Schaub as a player...but I hope he succeeds. I hope he wins the Super Bowl this season. Not for me as a fan...but for him. People are really being tough on him and getting personal. I don't like that.

I hope Schaub comes out and picks teams apart for the rest of this season and tells everyone to F off. One thing that separates him from Carr besides the obvious things is that the guy shows up, works and takes it.

I don't think he's all that great a qb, but I respect that. I'd tell him that to his face. Not a huge fan of some if the on field things you do, but much respect for being or seemingly being a stand up guy. That's like one of the traits I admire most. Show up work and take the good with the bad like a man.
I'd love for him & the team to win it all .... You are right , he's worked hard and been accountable .... but that doesn't put him above criticism nor does it open him up as a target for personal attacks.
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Old 10-03-2013   #200
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Man, I've been tough on Schaub as a player...but I hope he succeeds. I hope he wins the Super Bowl this season. Not for me as a fan...but for him. People are really being tough on him and getting personal. I don't like that.

I hope Schaub comes out and picks teams apart for the rest of this season and tells everyone to F off. One thing that separates him from Carr besides the obvious things is that the guy shows up, works and takes it.

I don't think he's all that great a qb, but I respect that. I'd tell him that to his face. Not a huge fan of some if the on field things you do, but much respect for being or seemingly being a stand up guy. That's like one of the traits I admire most. Show up work and take the good with the bad like a man.
Agreed.
Criticize the play all you want. I've done that myself.
Burn the jersey if it makes you feel good about yourself.
But some of this hate stuff and I-wish-he'd-get-hurt-stuff is way over the line.
Rep your way.
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