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View Poll Results: What needs be done to fix offense? (Vote for one or more.)
Start a different quarterback. 34 64.15%
Rewrite the playbook. 6 11.32%
Fire the offensive coordinator. 5 9.43%
Fire the head coach. 16 30.19%
Let somebody else call the plays. 9 16.98%
Abandon the zone blocking scheme. 2 3.77%
No change needed. 3 5.66%
Other 11 20.75%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2013   #61
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by tedr View Post
This might be knee-jerk; they might come out Sunday and beat the Seahawks- I doubt it, but it might happen. I just think if you look at things honestly, at least one of the two needs to change, preferably both. Just my thoughts.
What would it mean if beat the pants off Seattle?


Nothing. It won't mean squat. Just like it didn't mean squat that we beat Baltimore.... beat the snot out of them. We beat the Broncos... week 5 or 6. Didn't mean squat.

Winning in September means nothing. You all know that. So with that same logic, unless we're 1-3 in September, losing in Sept. is just as meaningless.

This is just a "this is where you stand" game. That's it. We got to see what's working, what's not working & we've got a little time before we need to have it fixed.

Seattle looks good. But we've got a chance to beat them at home. San Fran looks beatable. Then we'll see a bunch of teams we "should" beat. Hopefully we'll stay in the play off hunt during that time. Hopefully we'll have most of it fixed by November. By then, we'll know what it's going to take to make it to football in January. Then we'll see what's what.
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Old 09-23-2013   #62
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Default Re: How improve offense?

Anything less than winning a Super Bowl is a disappointment to me. They've shown they can win in the playoffs, now they need to step up and show me more.

Otherwise it's just another year of watching football and not seeing the Texans win the ultimate victory. At my age, and all the years of the Oilers, I've grown accustomed to disappointment, but it infuriates me nonetheless.
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Old 09-23-2013   #63
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I'm ready to see some fresh blood at QB. Once the score got out of hand today, I wish Kubiak would've put Yates in and let him rip.

The playbook doesn't need to be rewritten but it does need updated. Kubiak needs to loose the hounds when his back is against the wall and open his playbook up all the way, not just used the dog-eared pages. I didn't vote to replace the offensive coordinator, but maybe I should have. There's way too much talent on this team.

Marciano needs to go. ST's has been in the crapper for a few years.

One thing I hope doesn't happen is that Phillips becomes interim HC this season. That would fit his MO, though, and he has stated many times that he wants to be a HC again.
Kinda agree with the Doc on this one. Schaub has his moments but there are times when he looks like a backup who can win games and not a starter who dedicates every waking moment to thinking of how he can win a title.
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Old 09-23-2013   #64
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Default Re: How improve offense?

Honestly, at this point there isn't a ton of different things that can be done. My first preference was an offensive coordinator brought in to bring new life into this offense. Someone outside of the Shannahan sphere of influence so Gary can concentrate on game/team management and let someone else handle the offense fully. But not during the year.

So they have to work with what they have. I think TK brought it up but one thing I would like to see is more of an attacking nature to this offense. It seems we allow the defense to dictate what we'll do far too often and should be forcing them to adjust to us. It was one of the best things about the Chargers game. 3rd and long? No problem. We converted. We have to stop thinking 'We have a good defense so let's settle for punts and fieldgoals.' Looked like Kubiak was understanding this with the Chargers game but reverted to (as Jerome Solomon put it) Konserviak for the Ravens. Now how much of this is Kubiak and how much Schaub is debatable.

Secondly, throw the ball pass the markers. Yes, other teams throw short letting their playmakers make a play. Well...we're not other teams. We're not very high in YAC at the moment. Hop is climbing and Dre is in the top 25-30 and OD is like 19th or so. Those other teams like the Broncos have folks in the top five. Adjust to your personnel. If players are having issues getting YAC then throw it past the marker more. Mix it up. If you continually throw it short the defense will sit on routes and be there immediately to make the tackle.

For me right now the biggest offensive issue is that line though. They have been inconsistent all three games. First game Brown got manhandled. Newton has been tossed around in all three and Wade Smith is.....Wade Smith. So far Newton leads us in QB hurries allowed by Wade is giving him a run for his money! Really seems like they are racing to see who can get Matt killed first. Surprisingly Brooks has not been a big issue for being the only new piece on the line and Myers has been solid.

With that in mind if Brown comes back I would take Newton out and maybe Smith too if they have another bad game. It is time to make players accountable for bad play. Maybe such an action will light a spark in them because something has to. I don't see Matt surviving the year if this keeps up.
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Old 09-23-2013   #65
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Default Re: How improve offense?

I'm not a Matt Shaub guy at all but our problem is solely on the O-Line. We suppose to have 3 pro-bowlers on the O-line and they're playing like crap, and that including Dwayne Brown, yes I said it.....Wade Smith is garbage. Chris Myers is good I guess. Our right tackle and right guard don't belong in there. yea, Brandon Brooks may have great potential but right now he is no where close to being a decent starter. Damn, 4 out of 5 guys up front don't play good + Matt is our QB====> this is = disaster for the whole team, not just the offense. We should be very worry!!
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Old 09-23-2013   #66
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Default Re: How improve offense?

A new system would be a disaster. Schaub would not be nearly as good as he is in other systems. He's not going to be running anything that required any level of mobility from the qb and he's not running a system that relies more heavily on qb decision making and great throws.

I'd really like to see this offense with a better qb. The offense itself is not an issue. Playcalling and player performance definitely are.
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Old 09-23-2013   #67
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
A new system would be a disaster. Schaub would not be nearly as good as he is in other systems. He's not going to be running anything that required any level of mobility from the qb and he's not running a system that relies more heavily on qb decision making and great throws.

I'd really like to see this offense with a better qb. The offense itself is not an issue. Playcalling and player performance definitely are.
It's not as much about the system as it is the mentality I am thinking about with what we currently have available. I don't think Yates nor Keenum are ready yet but if Schaub doesn't right the ship with these int's and some of the ball placement we may need to find out sooner rather than later. But yeah the system isn't an issue. Just looking at it from a different angle than mere mechanics.

The mentality this offense has is too much of a wait and react instead of attacking. Just would worry that Kubes will get too involved if it is his own system. Only time he really let go was one season with baby Shanny who used it to attack. Doesn't seem he is going to do with that with Dennison. It's like the offense takes on the mindset of Kubiak and not sure that is a good thing.

One example of this is when asked about not throwing in the endzone Schaub said something of the like 'They didn't give it to us.' (per Jerome Solomon)Huh? You're playing into the defenses hands with that mentality. You have to make them react to you but we did the opposite.

So yeah I agree a more flexible QB would be great just not sure the young guns are ready.
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Old 09-23-2013   #68
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Default Re: How improve offense?

That post was a disaster.
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Old 09-23-2013   #69
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
What would it mean if beat the pants off Seattle?

Nothing. It won't mean squat. Just like it didn't mean squat that we beat Baltimore.... beat the snot out of them. We beat the Broncos... week 5 or 6. Didn't mean squat
It's not the results. It's how we play. Ever since our first play off run, this tea has berm declining. That spark is gone.

I said this early last year when we were winning games. Save for that broncos game, we looked mediocre. Other teams shooting themselves. The foot, not having as much talent...that stuff has to be accounted for.

If Seattle comes in here and plays up to their level we won't match that. Book it. If Seattle comes in here and makes a bunch of mistakes then we will have a shot.
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Old 09-23-2013   #70
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Default Re: How improve offense?

The offense is struggling big time right now and this week the defense needs to step up and help them by creating some turnovers and getting a short field to help them out. If they got some quick scores it might jump start them because we are not getting any new players at this point so the ones we have need to play better.
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Old 09-23-2013   #71
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
It's not the results. It's how we play. Ever since our first play off run, this tea has berm declining. That spark is gone.

I said this early last year when we were winning games. Save for that broncos game, we looked mediocre. Other teams shooting themselves. The foot, not having as much talent...that stuff has to be accounted for.

If Seattle comes in here and plays up to their level we won't match that. Book it. If Seattle comes in here and makes a bunch of mistakes then we will have a shot.
Can't argue that. If we put pressure on Wilson & he throws a few interceptions... well, they just didn't play up to their capability. If Arian or Andre has a good day, their defense shot themselves in the foot.

Kinda like we only beat Chicago last year because Cutler got hurt.
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Old 09-23-2013   #72
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
It's not as much about the system as it is the mentality I am thinking about with what we currently have available. I don't think Yates nor Keenum are ready yet but if Schaub doesn't right the ship with these int's and some of the ball placement we may need to find out sooner rather than later. But yeah the system isn't an issue. Just looking at it from a different angle than mere mechanics.

The mentality this offense has is too much of a wait and react instead of attacking. Just would worry that Kubes will get too involved if it is his own system. Only time he really let go was one season with baby Shanny who used it to attack. Doesn't seem he is going to do with that with Dennison. It's like the offense takes on the mindset of Kubiak and not sure that is a good thing.

One example of this is when asked about not throwing in the endzone Schaub said something of the like 'They didn't give it to us.' (per Jerome Solomon)Huh? You're playing into the defenses hands with that mentality. You have to make them react to you but we did the opposite.

So yeah I agree a more flexible QB would be great just not sure the young guns are ready.
I agree with all you said. I think the other thing about changing the QB is you get a new attitude, not the current mindset. Really think Ms is a beat old dog.
The young guns may not be ready but neither is Ms. Hopefully the young guns will go up while it sure seems Ms is going down.
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Old 09-23-2013   #73
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Default Re: How improve offense?

More 4/5 receiver (or TE) sets with short crossing routes to open up quickly. With AJ, Hopkins, Martin, Posey, Jean, OD and Graham our 5 will be better than any other team's 5th DB. That's how we get killed in the passing game, if you have a WR1 (we might have 2) and a WR2 with 3 WR3's or 2 WR3s and 2 WR4's then you have an advantage over any team in the league. Is it any coincidence that Brady, once he is down his 2 TEs, Vereen and Amendola and now running more 2 and 3 WR sets without all of the targets available that he looks pedestrian?

Teams are going to come after the QB and we finally have the WRs to force them into man coverage or zone blitzes allowing for a quick read. That's how you win these days. Pass to set up the run.

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Old 09-23-2013   #74
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike02 View Post
Teams are going to come after the QB and we finally have the WRs to force them into man coverage or zone blitzes allowing for a quick read. That's how you win these days. Pass to set up the run.

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That was what we were doing when Matt Schaub was a QB I could get 100% behind. He lead the league in passing that year. That 2009 offense with 2012 defense.... Championship!~!
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Old 09-23-2013   #75
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Default Re: How improve offense?

Haven't read the entire thread yet, just voted for start another QB. Fact is though that this offense was designed specifically for John Elway, a mobile QB with a rocket for an arm. John Elway aint walking through that door. We need to move in a different direction.
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Old 09-23-2013   #76
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
That was what we were doing when Matt Schaub was a QB I could get 100% behind. He lead the league in passing that year. That 2009 offense with 2012 defense.... Championship!~!
The only reason Matt Schaub ever led anyone in anything is that he was being carried and his mistakes masked by others ability to adjust what they were doing to make up for them. Seth Payne was spewing the truth about him always having been a completely inaccurate QB whose percentages and numbers are manufactured by receivers having to perform circus acts to catch the crap he tosses out there. I have been saying that, and being bashed for it, for years. He aint it ...
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Old 09-23-2013   #77
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Default Re: How improve offense?

I've read a few posts about Yates and Keenum not being ready. Both put on a show in the preseason that says they're ready. If you think Schaub was "ready" in 2007, why isn't Yates in 2013, with one less year in the league and more starts, including 2 playoff starts? Schaubs career accuracy % is 3.2% better than Yates'. I'm anxious to see what Yates has to offer. His mobility has to be at least 4% better than Schaub's and that can be just as important, if not more so.

I'd trust Yates and Keenum just as much as I'd trust Schaub right now. At least I'd be holding my breath because I was wondering what would happen instead of holding because of what I was expecting to happen.

I'm all for giving the kids a shot and seeing if we truly do need to draft a highly ranked college QB. We know what we have in Schaub and he ain't cutting it.
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Old 09-23-2013   #78
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Default Re: How improve offense?

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I've read a few posts about Yates and Keenum not being ready. Both put on a show in the preseason that says they're ready. If you think Schaub was "ready" in 2007, why isn't Yates in 2013, with one less year in the league and more starts, including 2 playoff starts? Schaubs career accuracy % is 3.2% better than Yates'. I'm anxious to see what Yates has to offer. His mobility has to be at least 4% better than Schaub's and that can be just as important, if not more so.

I'd trust Yates and Keenum just as much as I'd trust Schaub right now. At least I'd be holding my breath because I was wondering what would happen instead of holding because of what I was expecting to happen.

I'm all for giving the kids a shot and seeing if we truly do need to draft a highly ranked college QB. We know what we have in Schaub and he ain't cutting it.
I think the problem with that school of thought is that we think (or at least the team does) we have a shot at a deep playoff run and possibly a super bowl appearance.

If the team didn't have those lofty goals , I could see a QB change ... but under the current circumstances , I just don't see it happening without an injury to Schaub.
All bets are off if they end up 2-5 or 3-6 with Schaub being the reason the team struggles.

When we do make a change at QB ... do we expect the same results as Luck & RG3 as rookies ? I think that's unrealistic ....
With many parts of the team aging , we could have to wait a couple years for another playoff experience as Manning , Reed , Ninja , Wade Smith , AJ and J.Jo are all at the back end of their careers .....

As it stands now , we're stuck with Schaub until its proven this isn't a playoff team.
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Old 09-23-2013   #79
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Default Re: How improve offense?

I feel the answer is very simple, pace. If Kubiak had any sense of urgency or any ability to change the pace of play other than "oh crap we're losing by 30, speed up now" we'd be much better off. Why do we continually allow the defense to substitute? Go muddle a few drives a game before we're down by 21. Change the pace a few times, allow your offense to get some momentum.
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Old 09-23-2013   #80
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Default Re: How improve offense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I think the problem with that school of thought is that we think (or at least the team does) we have a shot at a deep playoff run and possibly a super bowl appearance.

If the team didn't have those lofty goals , I could see a QB change ... but under the current circumstances , I just don't see it happening without an injury to Schaub.
All bets are off if they end up 2-5 or 3-6 with Schaub being the reason the team struggles.

When we do make a change at QB ... do we expect the same results as Luck & RG3 as rookies ? I think that's unrealistic ....
With many parts of the team aging , we could have to wait a couple years for another playoff experience as Manning , Reed , Ninja , Wade Smith , AJ and J.Jo are all at the back end of their careers .....

As it stands now , we're stuck with Schaub until its proven this isn't a playoff team.
How has that idea worked out for the Texans? How did that idea work out for the 49'ers last season?

I simply don't think Schaub has what it takes to get us anywhere near deep in the playoffs. His performances this year are so erratic that we might as well have a 3rd year QB with some athletic upside and real game experience a decent shot.
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