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Old 09-18-2013   #21
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

I don't think Kubiak would know what to do with the likes of Kaepernick or Wilson. I think that Dennys menu can only hold plays designed for drop back passers. Athletic QBs add too much of an X factor and they sometimes have to jettison out of a play and make something happen on their own.
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Old 09-18-2013   #22
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
That has nothing to do with the main question of the thread. The "what if" scenario of when and where they would have been drafted isn't what is being talked about or should be. If either was on this team would they start? I don't care how they got on it.
It absolutely matters how they got to the team, either via draft, free agency or a trade. You can't just magically place those guys on the Texans then craft an argument about how pitiful Kubiak is without giving some sort of context. I believe if they were on the team and had demonstrated they could run Kubiak's offense better than Schaub then they would be starting, and not before then.
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Old 09-18-2013   #23
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Give me an example of an NFL team where that isn't true.
You just proved my point then, didn't you?
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Old 09-18-2013   #24
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Old 09-18-2013   #25
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
It absolutely matters how they got to the team, either via draft, free agency or a trade. You can't just magically place those guys on the Texans then craft an argument about how pitiful Kubiak is without giving some sort of context.
Well I think you can. It's not like they were high draft picks or anything. I'm just curious if Kubiak would notice the strength of a guy like either in this offense and if he'd do something or not with Schaub still here. That is where my concern is. Would Kubiak make that move if one of these guys were on the roster currently?




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I believe if they were on the team and had demonstrated they could run Kubiak's offense better than Schaub then they would be starting, and not before then.
I would hope so, but I don't believe that Gary would give either guy the proper look to see if they would be able to excel in this offense. I think he is to tunnel visioned on Schaub.
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Old 09-18-2013   #26
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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You want to be able to give your backups a chance to start, but at the same time, you want to give your struggling starters a chance to redeem themselves.

I remember a time when fans had enough of Kareem Jackson, Chris Myers, and Duane Brown... and wanted to see them gone. It's not always a good idea to give up on guys too early.
Yes, but Schaub has been the starter here for like 7 years now. I'm not saying that we should replace him right this minute in the season, but I've been seeing one to many things I don't like about Schaub this season. And I've also seen Schaub make two great comeback drives which is an improvement in that area so far, but how long can that last for a flat footed guy like Schaub? I just don't see Schaub pulling those kinds of drives off multiple times in the playoffs. I'd love to see him do it, but I don't want to see the Texans continue to waste good years on some strong teams, because they had a QB that held them back. With the right QB, this is a SB team. I know that Schaub will be the starter all season barring any injuries, but if he doesn't have a monster post season or take this team really far then I think it's time we make it a priority to replace Schaub.
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Old 09-18-2013   #27
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

No, neither one would be the starting QB for the Texans.

The only reason Elway did what he did was because of Shannahan. Kubiak wants a QB that protects the ball more than anything else. Schaubs INT's this year would be a bigger cause to Yates starting than anything else.
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Old 09-19-2013   #28
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

Lots of logic leaps in this question.

Who have the Texans had on the roster that clearly outplayed Schaub, leading to the premise that Gary is protecting him?

What free-agent QB's were available that were better than Schaub that they didn't sign?

What draft pick would they not have taken in the last two years in order to draft a QB who would replace Schaub?

Kaepernick was a 2nd rounder (36th pick) and Wilson was a 3rd Rounder (75th pick). Why would the Texans take a QB in the first two to three rounds for the explicit purpose of replacing a QB that goes for 4K yards, 20+ TD's and a 95% rating every year?

Seattle was without a QB. They desparately got Matt Flynn from Green Bay because of his one stupidly ridiculous stat line the previous season. The same Matt Flynn that could not win the starting role in Oakland. Wilson had an opportunity to step into a vacuum at the QB position and made the best of it. There was no entrenched, established QB on that team that he beat out.

Alex Smith was the starter in SF for six years, which more resembles what the Texans have in Schaub. However, his stats (and wins) were horrible. Sub 3K passing yards, sub 15 TD's, lots of fumbles, low 80% ratings. SF gave him plenty of years to develop and he didn't. They had already decided to move on from Smith, but had no one on the roster to take his place. Thus, the drafting of Kaepernick. Unfortunately, last year Smith had arguably his best year as a pro by far. Lots of yards, 70% completion rate, 3:1 TD/INT ratio, 104% rating, racking up the wins. But the decision had already been made to move on.

The Texans have not been in the scenario that either SF or Seattle was in at the time they made the decision to use a high draft pick on a QB. It is a faulty premise to assume that the Texans made a mistake by not taking either one, or that they explicitly chose not to because Kubiak is willing to ruin his career in an effort to keep Schaub as his QB at all costs.
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Old 09-19-2013   #29
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Do you feel that Kaepernick or Wilson would start here "right now?" And if you don't how in the world could you justify that not as a huge problem with the HC's judgement?
I believe if we brought in either Kaepernick or Wilson to replace David Carr, neither would be here starting for the Houston Texans in 2013.

I justify Kubiak's stubbornness because he & Matt have been through thick & thin. They've taken us from 6-10 to 9-7 despite several serious issues. Back to 6-10 then to 12-4.

If the 49ers lose Patrick Willis after week 5, I don't think they're 12-4.... sorry, I don't. If Marshawn Lynch averages 4.1 ypc I don't think the Seahawks are 11-5.

If we had drafted either of those guys in the 2nd round our the 3rd round, they would be sitting on the bench until Matt Schaub gets hurt. If they "light it up" they'll probably keep the job. If not... they wouldn't. But since Schaub (& I'm not a fan) has proven to be more than capable, we didn't draft either of them..... had Kaepernick dropped to the 5th, we might have taken him. Had Wilson went undrafted... we might have taken him. But they didn't, & we didn't.
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Old 09-19-2013   #30
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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No, neither one would be the starting QB for the Texans.

The only reason Elway did what he did was because of Shannahan. Kubiak wants a QB that protects the ball more than anything else. Schaubs INT's this year would be a bigger cause to Yates starting than anything else.


Schaub's td/int ratio is 2/1 so even if he continues at that rate Yates is not seeing the game unless Matt gets hurt. You are detached from reality
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Old 09-19-2013   #31
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Give me an example of an NFL team where that isn't true.
I don't care to involve myself in the debate, but the Seahawks gave Matt Flynn a 3 year, $26M contract with $10M guaranteed, then started Wilson from the first regular season game.
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Old 09-19-2013   #32
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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I don't care to involve myself in the debate, but the Seahawks gave Matt Flynn a 3 year, $26M contract with $10M guaranteed, then started Wilson from the first regular season game.
Good example. But, the Texans aren't the Seahawks, and history would go against such a move here. We've always had a history of "hanging on" until fiscal loss is no longer embarrassing and/or poor performance is too embarrassing.
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Old 09-19-2013   #33
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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I don't care to involve myself in the debate, but the Seahawks gave Matt Flynn a 3 year, $26M contract with $10M guaranteed, then started Wilson from the first regular season game.
Doesn't address the question. Flynn had never played a down for the Seahawks. Where are the examples of established vets with QB ratings in the 90s being subjected to a public open competition?
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Old 09-19-2013   #34
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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I don't think Kubiak would know what to do with the likes of Kaepernick or Wilson. I think that Dennys menu can only hold plays designed for drop back passers. Athletic QBs add too much of an X factor and they sometimes have to jettison out of a play and make something happen on their own.
Because, you know, his years in Denver never had him coaching a mobile QB.
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Old 09-19-2013   #35
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

I can't address Texecutioner's point directly because I think he's made up his mind. That said, I recall many wanting Josh Freeman a couple years ago, or Cam Newton after he had a smattering of good games. It's more likely that Wilson and Kaepernick end up the same way. I can't count the number of times I've heard in my lifetime, "This player is going to change the way QB is played forever". Hell, even Joe Flacco looked like Montana reincarnate for a few games in the playoffs last season. Give me Brees, Manning, or Brady any day over the flavour du jour at QB.
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Old 09-19-2013   #36
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Well I think you can. It's not like they were high draft picks or anything. I'm just curious if Kubiak would notice the strength of a guy like either in this offense and if he'd do something or not with Schaub still here. That is where my concern is. Would Kubiak make that move if one of these guys were on the roster currently?






I would hope so, but I don't believe that Gary would give either guy the proper look to see if they would be able to excel in this offense. I think he is to tunnel visioned on Schaub.
This whole thread has been "this is what I believe about Gary Kubiak, so there". It's very hard to have a discussion on a hypothetical situation, especially when both sides disagree, since factual evidence doesn't really seem to make a difference; there's always a loophole where that particular case doesn't apply.

That being said, assuming the following: if either of those two guys was on this squad RIGHT now and has shown the level of competence they have shown to date, I believe they would be starting. Maybe they wouldn't, if Kubiak thought Schaub's competence is greater than theirs, I cannot speak to Kubiak's evaluations of the QBs.

You can disagree with me that he wouldn't, I truly believe it comes down to Kubiak's evaluation of their competence, NOT loyalty or stubbornness, as you've argued.
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Old 09-19-2013   #37
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

Kaepernick yes, Wilson no...

The reason i say this is b/c Kaepernick and not Wilson is b/c Kaep is more of the prototype than Wilson. Kaepernick for the most part is the prototype. Tall, strong arm, accurate & athletic enough to evade pass rushers. That would've been just too much for even stubborn ass Kubiak to ignore. The minute Schaub went down in 2011 & Kaepernick flashed in the playoffs, Schaub would've been outta here for like a 3rd-4th round pick.

Wilson could've flashed, but ultimately still would've been reglegated back to the bench b/c of the concerns for his height. He would've had to really ball out to to the tune of 300+ yds passing 3 TDs and 50-60 yds rushing to show Kubiak he's up to the task imo....& even then all it would've done was force a qb competition in which Schaub would've won for that year....people forget that Wilson struggled for the 1st 3 games last year before he got into a groove.
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Old 09-19-2013   #38
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

I guess one way of looking at this is that Schaub has 3 int's in 2 games & that will either improve drastically over time or even Kubiak will be looking to replace him. It's a lot like Bullock's situation, except that Schaub has had at least 3 successful seasons in the past & is no learning rookie.

Personally, I don't like Schaub's overall performance last year, especially late in the season, as he continued to get worse as the games counted more. That doesn't make me feel very indebted to him as a fan, but he has not lost us a game yet this season, & in fact has led game-winning drives despite crappy over-all performances (thank God for Lechler & a sometimes stingy D). We'll see if Schaub's first-half performances improve OR his game-winning drives disappear. The first 2 games weren't good enough overall. Last year wasn't good enough overall. Schaub needs to find his pre-2011 injury self, or else.
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Old 09-19-2013   #39
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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I guess one way of looking at this is that Schaub has 3 int's in 2 games & that will either improve drastically over time or even Kubiak will be looking to replace him. It's a lot like Bullock's situation, except that Schaub has had at least 3 successful seasons in the past & is no learning rookie.

Personally, I don't like Schaub's overall performance last year, especially late in the season, as he continued to get worse as the games counted more. That doesn't make me feel very indebted to him as a fan, but he has not lost us a game yet this season, & in fact has led game-winning drives despite crappy over-all performances (thank God for Lechler & a sometimes stingy D). We'll see if Schaub's first-half performances improve OR his game-winning drives disappear. The first 2 games weren't good enough overall. Last year wasn't good enough overall. Schaub needs to find his pre-2011 injury self, or else.
This is such baloney....let's just call a spade a spade, Schaub will never get your support or most of the fans here in this town's full support b/c he doesn't have a rocket arm, he's relatively even kiel and not overly fiery & b/c he's not the flavor of the month "running qb".

The only way people will support this dude is if we win a SB.....emphasis on "win" b/c i feel very strongly that even if he were to lead us to a SB but didn't have a great game people here would find some way to blame him & only him for the loss while simultaneously marginalizing what he did to lead the team there in the 1st place.

& that quite honestly isn't fair to him b/c none of these other qb's whether they're good or bad are held to this standard. This is also why i often find myself defending this dude when i don't really want to.
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Old 09-19-2013   #40
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Default Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?

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Doesn't address the question. Flynn had never played a down for the Seahawks. Where are the examples of established vets with QB ratings in the 90s being subjected to a public open competition?
Hey, I was just answering the question that CT posed to Doc, which had nothing to do with experience, skill level, or the price of rice in China.

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I'll come back with a simple answer................When Schaub got his new contract, "open competition" left the building with Elvis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Give me an example of an NFL team where that isn't true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I don't care to involve myself in the debate, but the Seahawks gave Matt Flynn a 3 year, $26M contract with $10M guaranteed, then started Wilson from the first regular season game.
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Anyone but Schaub.
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